Having no sin

[Slug1]

So, back to the "new" OP, can a man say he has no sin, because he has no sin? Or is everyone perpetually a servant of sin with no hope of pleasing God?
Jesus said, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Then Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (Jo 8:32,34)
The truth will save you from committing sin.
The truth is that a man can be re-born of an incorruptable seed. He can undergo the circumcision done without hands. He can cast away the flesh.
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24) You can not use the "I'm still in this skin" excuse to satisfy crucified lusts.
You CAN live a sin-free life, making the right decisions EVERY time you have the choice to obey or disobey God.
When you are born-again, the old addictions will have no effect on your "new creature". (2 Cor 5:17)
This new life starts with repentance from sin, and if that repentance is real, it will be the only time you will ever repent.
Now that you are a non-sinner, you will be baptized in water to wash away your old sins. (Ro 3:25)
Now that you have been washed by the blood of Jesus, and a non-sinner, you can ask God for the Holy Ghost. And God gives His Spirit to those who love Him. The gift of the Holy Ghost is still manifested by the speaking in tongues, just like the first time the apostles received Him. (Acts 2:4)
Everything I have posted is the same as what Peter commanded in Acts 2:38-39.
Is anyone who has read this free from sin?
I am. And I thank the Lord Jesus Christ and our Father.

The question PJW is for other Christians who have NOT completed their walk with Christ and are not fully sanctified and thus are not able to resist temptation and escape 100% of the time... what do you think of them?

[PJW]

The question PJW is for other Christians who have NOT completed their walk with Christ and are not fully sanctified and thus are not able to resist temptation and escape 100% of the time... what do you think of them?

Jesus said to Paul, "...To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me. (Acts 26:18)
If "they" are walking in darkness, turned to satan, and unfaithful, they are still lost. They are unsanctified. Until they are servants of God, they are servants of sin.

[Slug1]

Jesus said to Paul, "...To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me. (Acts 26:18)
If "they" are walking in darkness, turned to satan, and unfaithful, they are still lost. They are unsanctified. Until they are servants of God, they are servants of sin.

OK.. since you think of them based on that single scripture... how do you balance that single scripture with the many scriptures and full context of all of 1 and 2 Corinthians where Paul thought of those who were Christians, yet still sinned?

Does a servant of God who commits "a" sin... mean they walk in total darkness and that they are totally lost?

Also... the context of the "single" scripture is concerning those who have never accepted Christ. Of course they will sin because they cannot NOT sin.

[salesman]

OK.. since you think of them based on that single scripture... how do you balance that single scripture with the many scriptures and full context of all of 1 and 2 Corinthians where Paul thought of those who were Christians, yet still sinned?

Does a servant of God who commits "a" sin... mean they walk in total darkness and that they are totally lost?

Also... the context of the "single" scripture is concerning those who have never accepted Christ. Of course they will sin because they cannot NOT sin.

Paul likens the Christian faith to a race that must be completed. Therefore there must be a chance the race might not be finished. Christ says "if" you abide in me. "If" you obey my commands. He says those that are already clean and part of the vine can be cut off if they bear no fruit.

Christians always have the opportunity to turn their back on God and fall into sin. Why else would God warn us not fall away, and to obey Him if obeying Him was the only option?

[salesman]

IN CONTEXT... scripture OUT of context is not much good except to support AGENDA.


I have not done this because the point is this: KILLING is not a sin. If killing is a sin... then produce scriptural support that shows everyone that killing IS a sin.

The only think that Jesus doesn't advocate is MURDER. Jesus has been killing and ordering man to kill for a LONG time. When Jesus returns, HE will slaughter millions of people.

Once we establish is killing is sinful or not, THEN we can address CONTEXT.

Once killing is scripturally shown to be sinful or not... then we can progress this way.

The simple fact that Jesus has killed from the beginning of the Bible all the way to the end of the Bible is the position that needs to be understood.

So... how can Jesus say all He says in the context YOU portray, and be a killer through a ton of scriptural evidence all throughout the Bible? That don't make sense, does it?

No it does not... so who's wrong?



One of these men cut off his own privates because the Bible says it's better to cut out an eye.... blah, blah, blah (I'm sure you know the scriptures)... some of our "fore-fathers" were WRONG

Let's first see if killing can be established as sinful...

First, you said I gave the verse love yoru enemy out of context. In a debate you need to explain HOW I mis-used the verse. He said paraphrased "No longer hate your enemy... now I want you to love them". How is this out of context? You are not allowed in a real debate to use the tactic of "nope, you're wrong" without any context in which to back up that statement. What good is it to post verse after verse if you will pick each one as an individual verse and say it means something else entirely without any rational thought given as to why?

If you can obey these scriptures entirely and still kill your enemy, than I want to know how. And I want scripture to back it up. Not just opinion that I am interpreting wrong. That is all you ever give back on this subject- your opinion that these verses don't restrict killing.

Matthew 5- the sermon on the mount

21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Exodus 20:13 “You shall not murder."

In war you are often forced to kill other brothers and sisters in battle. ie. every war in Europe since Constantine- the American Revolutionary War, the Civil War etc. See I John 3: 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. So how can you be a soldier killing other Christians?

I John 3:15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters

Luke 6:27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

There are more scriptures like this. So how do you kill someone and love them at the same time? How do you curse them to eternal damnation away from God by taking their life when they may have been saved at a later date? The words, "don't ever kill anybody, ever" are NOT in the Bible. Jesus was not worried about just killing our enemies. He did not want us to even feel hate. He wanted us to bless them, pray for them and have mercy on them. If you want to put your body between a victim and the evil person then do so. No greater love than to lay down your life. But NT says we are to show mercy and love. Violence is NEVER advocated in the NT.

[PJW]

Also... the context of the "single" scripture is concerning those who have never accepted Christ. Of course they will sin because they cannot NOT sin.[/QUOTE]

By saying this, are you admitting that some CAN "not sin"? That those who "have not accepted Christ" are the sinners.
Those who walk in darkness cannot say they have fellowship with Jesus. (1 Jo 1:6) Those who walk in the light are not in darkness, and they have fellowship with Christ.(1 Jo 1:7)
"The way of the wicked is as darkness:" (Pro 4:19) Sinners are wicked. To include them in the Body of Christ is wrong.
If the unfaithful "sinners" at Corinth would not repent, they would be lost. If the faithful at Corinth would continue to allow the unfaithful to pretend to partake in the fellowship of the saints in light, they would be guilty of defiling the body of Christ.
Servants of sin are not free. (Jo 8:32, 34)

[awestruckchild]

I am making the assumption that others have the view I do on what constitutes the difference between murder and killing and that it is whether the hearts motive is anger/hate or love/concern? Could be assuming wrong - just asking.

[parsonsmom]

Can't you say "I have no sin" after you have been cleansed of ALL unrighteousness?
John is speaking of those who walk in darkness, who cannot say they have no sin (1 Jo 1:6)

Hello again PJW,

Jesus took my sins upon himself that I could stand before God unblemished, yes, but for me to say that I know longer sin even though forgiven would be a lie.
My life is a constant battle to live by the His commands and I fall short everyday but I know if I confess my sins I will be forgiven.
What the Holy Spirit does do is convict me of me sin, he makes me feel so uncomfortable that I cannot NOT repent

I know you and I have had this conversation before, I don't know where you live or what you do but can you honestly say to me that since you have received Christ into your life and have been filled with the Holy Spirit you have never once sinned, you have never since then had to confess a sin?
If you can honestly answer yes to this then I really do stand in awe.

John as far as I know was writing to the churches in Ephesus and they would have been believers.
What do you make of the verse below.
Luke 17:3-4
So watch yourselves! “If another believer sins, rebuke that person; then if there is repentance, forgive. Even if that person wrongs you seven times a day and each time turns again and asks forgiveness, you must forgive.”

Our sins have been forgiven at the cross but our refining is a process that continues throughout our lives and he will not stop until, like the silversmith he can see His reflection in us.




C.S. Lewis said that once we give God permission, by surrendering our lives to Him, He will not stop that process of purifying us no matter how painful or unpleasant it may be.

We would not need to be purified by the refiners fire if we no longer sinned.
We are not perfect just forgiven.
And I thank God that he is guiding, refining and strengthening me, it's a slow process but I will be ready cos he told me so.[/QUOTE]
================================================== ===========================================

Shalom; This is the spirit and the soul the writer is speaking about; when we are born again; our spirit is sealed to redemption; but our soul; flesh; keeps on doing what it knows best to do. it is the renewing of the mind;that does the changing; which most churches doesn't teach. it is only through the washing of the word; that fine tunes the flesh; but it is a life time of staying in the Word. Salvation is from the beginning to the end. Respectfully; Parsonsmom

[Slug1]

First, you said I gave the verse love yoru enemy out of context. In a debate you need to explain HOW I mis-used the verse. He said paraphrased "No longer hate your enemy... now I want you to love them". How is this out of context? You are not allowed in a real debate to use the tactic of "nope, you're wrong" without any context in which to back up that statement. What good is it to post verse after verse if you will pick each one as an individual verse and say it means something else entirely without any rational thought given as to why?

If you can obey these scriptures entirely and still kill your enemy, than I want to know how. And I want scripture to back it up. Not just opinion that I am interpreting wrong. That is all you ever give back on this subject- your opinion that these verses don't restrict killing.

Matthew 5- the sermon on the mount

21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Exodus 20:13 “You shall not murder."

In war you are often forced to kill other brothers and sisters in battle. ie. every war in Europe since Constantine- the American Revolutionary War, the Civil War etc. See I John 3: 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. So how can you be a soldier killing other Christians?

I John 3:15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters

Luke 6:27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

There are more scriptures like this. So how do you kill someone and love them at the same time? How do you curse them to eternal damnation away from God by taking their life when they may have been saved at a later date? The words, "don't ever kill anybody, ever" are NOT in the Bible. Jesus was not worried about just killing our enemies. He did not want us to even feel hate. He wanted us to bless them, pray for them and have mercy on them. If you want to put your body between a victim and the evil person then do so. No greater love than to lay down your life. But NT says we are to show mercy and love. Violence is NEVER advocated in the NT.

With all this said, is "killing"... sinful?

Let me say it a different ways... is killing ALWAYS sinful?

Or is there a "righteous" way to take a life (killing) compared to an UNrighteous way (murder)?

What makes one righteous (to kill) and the other NOT (to murder)?

The point of this is simple... if TO kill is sinful, then why is God MAKING people sin by MAKING people bring His wrath to the evil doers and wipe them from the face of the earth?

Is it OK for only NON-Christians to do this honor of service to God?

Those NON-Christians can do this killing and it's NOT a sin for them but it IS a sin for a Christian?

THAT DON'T MAKE SENSE... now does it?

Either killing is sinful no matter when, how, why, and BY WHO does the task of killing... or it's not!

So... is killing sinful?

[amazzin]

PJW
This is getting really old and quick. I suggest you expand you posting horizons to other topics and knock off the obvious agenda to put the law into Christians heads. You will have a great account to give some day for your teaching

Also... the context of the "single" scripture is concerning those who have never accepted Christ. Of course they will sin because they cannot NOT sin.

[PJW]

PJW
This is getting really old and quick. I suggest you expand you posting horizons to other topics and knock off the obvious agenda to put the law into Christians heads. You will have a great account to give some day for your teaching

The blue area of your post, (#40) was a quote of another poster, and not originally by me. It was posted in #33, and quoted in post 34.
Amazzin, isn't the law written in our hearts now?
"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people." (Heb 8:10)
If I had an "agenda" it would be to provide push-back to those who mis-believe that everybody sins. Not everyone sins. Some people's repentance is true.

[Slug1]

The blue area of your post was a quote of another poster, and not originally by me.
Amazzin, isn't the law written in our hearts now?
"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people." (Heb 8:10)
If I had an "agenda" it would be to provide push-back to those who mis-believe that everybody sins. Not everyone sins. Some people's repentance is true.

Which is great dude... the problem is what you call those who fail and DO "a" sin. You claim that they are NOT a Christian anymore... that is a problem.

[PJW]

How many chances did Adam and Eve get?
1 John 3:9-10 are the scriptures that I will stand with.

[Slug1]

How many chances did Adam and Eve get?

Did Jesus die only once because we are only allowed to sin... once? Then once that sin is done, we cannot be forgiven anymore???

Does your question point out that once a person accepts Christ and later in life they sin, then sin a second time... once that 2nd sin is done... they are not a Christian anymore??

If that is what you are saying... then say it.

[PJW]

A person who sins, ever, is not born of God. (1Jo 3:9-10)
If they repent, for real, (meaning they ARE non-sinners), God will allow them to be part of His body. But there is no sin in the body of Christ, as "For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones. (Eph 5:30)