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Thread: Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars

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    Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars

    What say you? Is he right? Is anyone missing?
    Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars
    By Thomas Sowell
    July 9, 2012 12:00 A.M.

    Nothing is likely to get an argument started among sports fans faster than attempts to name the all-time greatest in any sport, or even the all-time greatest in a particular aspect of a sport. However, in baseball, we can at least narrow down the list of possibilities — considerably, in fact — when it comes to hitting.

    Who was the all-time greatest hitter?

    A lot depends on how much weight you give to batting average versus power hitting. But it would be hard to consider someone for the title of the all-time greatest hitter if someone else had both a higher lifetime batting average and a higher lifetime slugging average. That narrows down the list considerably.

    The highest lifetime batting average was Ty Cobb’s .367. But Rogers Hornsby hit .358 and, far more of a home-run hitter, Hornsby had a higher lifetime slugging average than Cobb. No one had both a higher lifetime batting average and a higher lifetime slugging average than Cobb or Hornsby. Both of them therefore belong on the short list of candidates.

    Babe Ruth had by far the highest lifetime slugging average — .690. Batting averages count how many hits there are in how many official times at bat. Slugging averages count how many total bases there are from these hits — counting a single as one base and a home run as four, for example.

    If you get two singles and a double every ten times at bat, then your batting average is .300, and your four total bases mean that your slugging average is .400. If you get two singles and a home run, then your six bases give you a slugging average of .600.

    Babe Ruth’s lifetime slugging average of .690 means that he averaged nearly seven total bases every ten times at bat. That would mean something like a single, a double, and a home run every ten times at bat — over a span of 22 years.

    Some great sluggers, in their best seasons, have had slugging averages of .700 or more, usually once or twice in a lifetime. Only two players — Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds — ever had a slugging average over .800 in a season. That’s equivalent to two singles, a double, and a home run every ten times at bat, all season long.

    But if we are talking about the all-time greatest hitters, we usually mean over the course of a career, not just in a particular season when a batter was hot.

    To put the Babe’s .690 lifetime slugging average in perspective, even such great sluggers as Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Joe DiMaggio, and Hank Greenberg, in their greatest seasons, never had a slugging average as high as the .690 that Babe Ruth had for his whole career. So the Babe makes the short list.

    Ted Williams is best known for batting .406. What is not nearly as well known is that he had a lifetime slugging average exceeded only by Babe Ruth’s — and Williams’s lifetime batting average of .344 was two points higher than the Babe’s. So no one had both a higher lifetime batting average and a higher lifetime slugging average than Ted Williams. He too makes the short list.

    There is another important dimension to batting, the ability to come through in the clutch. This is not so easily quantifiable. However, there is one batter who stands out above all others when it comes to runs batted in — Lou Gehrig.

    Despite a career shortened by the disease that bears his name, Lou Gehrig still holds the record for the most seasons with more than 150 runs batted in — seven, one out of every two full seasons in his career. Babe Ruth is second with three seasons of 150 or more runs batted in. Gehrig had 184 RBIs in 1931.

    Lou Gehrig also set the lifetime record for the most home runs with the bases loaded, a record recently tied by Alex Rodriguez. Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, and Barry Bonds, in their longer careers, hit over 200 more home runs than Gehrig, but none of the three hit as many homers with the bases loaded.

    Lou Gehrig’s lifetime slugging average is third on the all-time list, just one point behind Ted Williams’s. Gehrig’s lifetime batting average of .340 is two points lower than Babe Ruth’s and four points lower than Ted Williams’s. But, if clutch hitting counts, Gehrig also belongs on the short list of all-time great batters.

    We can argue about how to weigh various aspects of hitting, in order to pick the one all-time greatest batter, but at least we can narrow down the list of possibilities to five.
    Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."

    Jeremiah 31:9

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    Re: Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars

    OK, are we picking the ultimate All-Star team here? Or just 5 players? And why did he not pick any pitchers?
    Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.
    C.S. Lewis

    You're gonna make a difference when you lay down your life, and in complete submission to God, choose to die with Him in service to other people.
    Rich Mullins

    Attachment 11169

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    Re: Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars

    He's just doing the best hitters.

    I don't know how Joe DiMaggio doesn't make the list. His 56 game hitting streak will never be matched.
    Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."

    Jeremiah 31:9

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    Re: Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    He's just doing the best hitters.

    I don't know how Joe DiMaggio doesn't make the list. His 56 game hitting streak will never be matched.
    And I was thinking the same thing. And Willie Mays. Or Johnny Bench. Or Joe Deroschier (sp).

    I will think on this, and make up my own list and post it later: all hitters, position by position.
    Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.
    C.S. Lewis

    You're gonna make a difference when you lay down your life, and in complete submission to God, choose to die with Him in service to other people.
    Rich Mullins

    Attachment 11169

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    Re: Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianCoffee View Post
    I will think on this, and make up my own list and post it later: all hitters, position by position.
    Yeah! Do it!
    Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."

    Jeremiah 31:9

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    Re: Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars

    OK Fenris, here is my list. I decided on just 3 OF, and did not name them by LF/RF/CF. Also, these are just my own picks: not so much stats, SABER stuff, or anything like that.


    Catcher: Roy Campanella, Brooklyn Dodgers

    Though he only played 10 seasons, Campy was an amazing player. A clutch hitter, he did not strike out as often (501 times, compared to 533 walks), and has a career batting average of .276.

    First Base: Lou Gehrig, New York Yankees

    I do not know what to add about the "Iron Man", other then to say I feel he was the greatest first baseman to ever play the game.

    Second Base: Rogers Hornsby, St. Louis Cardinals/New York Giants/Boston Braves/Chicago Cubs/St. Louis Cardinals/St. Louis Browns

    I feel that Hornsby was the greatest 2nd baseman of all time (he did play SS and 3rd as well).

    Shortstop: Hornus Wagner, Louisville Colonels, Pittsburgh Pirates

    Though his baseball card is the rarest of the rare, Wagner was most likely the greatest shortstop who ever lived. A career .328 batting average, as a SS he had a career .940 fielding percentage.

    Third Base: Mike Schmidt, Philadelphia Phillies

    I loved Schmidt growing up: the man could hit, hit with power, and field as well. I do not think there was a much more feared slugger in his era for third base.

    Outfield: Babe Ruth, Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees, Boston Braves

    Greatest home run hitter of all time: plus, the chunky dude could pitch. In the dead ball era, there was no equal to the Babe.

    Outfield: Ted Williams, Boston Red Sox

    Though the Splendid Splinter lost several seasons to defend our country during WW2, I feel there was no better outfielder of any era. Ted could do it all: hit, hit for power and average, walked 3x as much as he struck out. He also had a .974 career fielding percentage.

    Outfield: Willie Mays, New York/San Francisco Giants, New York Mets

    The "Say, Hey" kid rounds out my picks. I feel he was the first true 5-tool player.


    These are my picks, Fenris (and everyone else). Not sure I can argue against anyone else, but if you want to give it a whirl, I am game.
    Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.
    C.S. Lewis

    You're gonna make a difference when you lay down your life, and in complete submission to God, choose to die with Him in service to other people.
    Rich Mullins

    Attachment 11169

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    Re: Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianCoffee View Post
    OK Fenris, here is my list. I decided on just 3 OF, and did not name them by LF/RF/CF. Also, these are just my own picks: not so much stats, SABER stuff, or anything like that.


    Catcher: Roy Campanella, Brooklyn Dodgers

    Though he only played 10 seasons, Campy was an amazing player. A clutch hitter, he did not strike out as often (501 times, compared to 533 walks), and has a career batting average of .276.
    Hmmm I dunno about this. I'd have picked Yogi Berra (358 career homers, led the Yankees in RBIs 6 straight seasons) or Johnny Bench (289 career homers, 10 gold gloves, led the league in RBIs 3 times).

    First Base: Lou Gehrig, New York Yankees
    Good choice. Played 2130 consecutive games, career .340 hitter with 493 homes runs. He had 13 consecutive seasons with 100 runs and 100 RBI.


    Second Base: Rogers Hornsby, St. Louis Cardinals/New York Giants/Boston Braves/Chicago Cubs/St. Louis Cardinals/St. Louis Browns
    Good choice.


    Shortstop: Hornus Wagner, Louisville Colonels, Pittsburgh Pirates
    Can't argue this one. He has some surprising stats. He didn't hit a lot of home runs ( just 101 for his career) but he drove in 1,733 runs, 21 on the list.

    Third Base: Mike Schmidt, Philadelphia Phillies
    An amazing power hitter. Honorable mention: George Brett, who had more than 3,000 hits, 300 home runs, 600 doubles, 100 triples, 1,500 RBI and 200 stolen bases- and still wasn't as good as Schmidt!


    Outfield: Babe Ruth, Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees, Boston Braves
    Has to be on this list. Changed the game.

    Outfield: Ted Williams, Boston Red Sox
    I think he was the best pure hitter the sport has ever seen. Maybe will ever see.

    Outfield: Willie Mays, New York/San Francisco Giants, New York Mets
    Great all around player.
    Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."

    Jeremiah 31:9

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    Re: Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars

    I agree with your points about Bench and Berra: I chose Campy, not just based on stats, but based on the fact he was one of the first (I want to say he was the third, but without checking I do not know) black man to go from the Negro leagues to MLB. I felt badly leaving Jackie Robinson off of my list, but there were too many players to choose from, and I just could not squeeze him in.

    I think if I have the time this weekend, I will list a 27 man roster of my ultimate team: starters and relievers as well. That way, players that are {thisclose} to being on my top list will be on the team.
    Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.
    C.S. Lewis

    You're gonna make a difference when you lay down your life, and in complete submission to God, choose to die with Him in service to other people.
    Rich Mullins

    Attachment 11169

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    Re: Baseball’s All-Time All-Stars

    Sounds good. I'll mess around with a roster too if I have time.
    Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."

    Jeremiah 31:9

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