Knowing about vs. Knowing Jesus (Slug quote)

[-SEEKING-]

I borrowed this quote from Slug from another thread so as to not derail it.

Straight up... it's knowing Jesus, not only knowing about Him.

I would love to hear you elaborate on this point a little more. Sometimes I'm not sure I really understand the knowing Jesus part. At least how that knowledge looks like.

Thanks

[Indueseason]

Hey brother,

I have a friend who is not a Christian, but knows her bible. She grew up in a Christian home, and was taught to read and memorise scripture. I met her the year after I came to Christ, and I was amazed at how well she knew the bible! Even though I had read my bible daily in that year, I knew little compared to her. Yet in all that memorising and study, she did not know Jesus. She couldn't understand me when I spoke about my relationship with Christ, because she had never encountered Him. She had never felt His love or peace,never felt His leading or been filled with His love. She knew about Jesus, but didn't know Jesus, even though she could recite half of the red verses in her bible.

There's nothing wrong with memorising and studying the word, in fact we should do that, but that isn't what will save us. Only knowing the Word does that.

Hope that helps.

blessings to you

[jayne]

I borrowed this quote from Slug from another thread so as to not derail it.



I would love to hear you elaborate on this point a little more. Sometimes I'm not sure I really understand the knowing Jesus part. At least how that knowledge looks like.

Thanks

Well, here's my thinking about the difference.

I know ALL about Princess Diana. I can tell you facts and figures and I have much memorabilia about her. She is one of my favorites.

But I never knew her. I never had a relationship with her where we would chat on the phone and talk to each other and laugh/cry/pray with each other and toddle her kids in my lap and do all the close-knit things that women who are in deep and abiding friendships with other women do.

The people of Jericho knew all ABOUT God. They believed He existed and were in fear of Him because of the stories that they had heard about how He conquered Pharoah and other enemies on behalf His people. They could tell you all about Him and list all kind of facts and figures about Him and even acknowledged His omnipotence.

But they did not know Him in the sense of being in a relationship with God, the Father, and they, His children.

They chose to hide from Him - not wanting any part of a relationship with Him which would require them to submit to Him and obey Him.

A lot of people know who God is - who Jesus is - and they don't deny their literal existence. These same people can tell you things that the Bible says about God and might even say, "Well, I know I ought to do the right thing...." - but they don't. They choose to ignore Him and have no desire for a relationship with Him.

[-SEEKING-]

She couldn't understand me when I spoke about my relationship with Christ, because she had never encountered Him.

BAM! And that's what I was hoping you'd say. That's the point I want to discuss. Sometimes I'm not really sure I know EXACTLY what that mean.

Pretend your speaking to a little child. How would you explain in detail HOW that relationship happens and WHAT it looks like.

I know what a relationship between husband and wife look like. Anyone who sees me with my wife would no doubt no she's my wife.

I know what a relationship between daddy and children look like. Anyone who sees me with my children would no doubt no they are my children.

So my question is, what does a relationship with Jesus and a Christian look like.

[-SEEKING-]

They choose to ignore Him and have no desire for a relationship with Him.

I'm glad you touched on the same point as well. This is what I'm trying to get a better understanding of. The relationship part. How does one have a relationship with an invisible spiritual Being. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. I mean how it appears to my limited human understanding and vision.

Thanks.

[jayne]

I'm glad you touched on the same point as well. This is what I'm trying to get a better understanding of. The relationship part. How does one have a relationship with an invisible spiritual Being. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. I mean how it appears to my limited human understanding and vision.

Thanks.

OK, think about it like this. God is described as our Father. He was also a friend to Moses and Jesus said that His disciples had come to a point in their relationship that they were His friends.

So think about a perfect relationship that a child (even an adult child) would have with a parent. And think about a perfect relationship that two friends would have.

In my mind there would have to be:

1. A lot of talking to God. MUCH more informal than we think, yet still extremely respectful. A WHOLE lot more than just our petitions. What if the ONLY conversation that we had with our parents our whole entire life was asking them for stuff. That would be weird. Some people aren't comfortable in talking to God about daily and mundane things because it feels like they are talking to the themselves. But it isn't that at all.
2. A lot of listening to God.
3. A lot of viewing oneself as the servant of God. Just like a TRUE friendship and TRUE attitude towards parents involves selflessness and joyfully serving the other.
4. A lot of getting to know each other better - which would require Bible reading, Bible study, and prayer.
5. A lot of trying to please the Lord. Children, even adult children want to please their parents. And good and dear friends want to please each other.
6. A lot of FIERCE loyalty. The best way to show this loyalty to God is to obey Him.

[Slug1]

I borrowed this quote from Slug from another thread so as to not derail it.



I would love to hear you elaborate on this point a little more. Sometimes I'm not sure I really understand the knowing Jesus part. At least how that knowledge looks like.

Thanks

Real quick because I have to leave and do some errands at the church.

This statement comes from two examples experienced over the years: 1) There are those who acknowledge Jesus as "the" Savior. Some of them know scripture better than many Christians. However, they don't acknowledge Jesus as "their" Savior.

2) Then there are those who have accepted Jesus as "their" Savior but they have a relationship with God as led by their religion and what they have been taught through the doctrine of their religion. They profess Jesus but when He tries to do something that is beyond or different than what their doctrine and religion says Jesus will do... then they won't do it, can't do it and when others in the Body of Christ want to and can do... they are against what Jesus is doing through those others.

So both these are examples of the difference between "KNOWING" Jesus and knowing "ABOUT" Jesus.

[Indueseason]

BAM! And that's what I was hoping you'd say. That's the point I want to discuss. Sometimes I'm not really sure I know EXACTLY what that mean.

Pretend your speaking to a little child. How would you explain in detail HOW that relationship happens and WHAT it looks like.

I know what a relationship between husband and wife look like. Anyone who sees me with my wife would no doubt no she's my wife.

I know what a relationship between daddy and children look like. Anyone who sees me with my children would no doubt no they are my children.

So my question is, what does a relationship with Jesus and a Christian look like.

You know your wife and your kids, you want to spend time with them, you want to show them how much you love them. You put their happiness above your own because you love them. It's the same with Jesus. We love Him and want to please Him. We want to spend time in His presence and sing praises to His glorious name. We want Him to know how much we love Him.

The love you share with your wife changes you, as time goes on you become more alike, agree with more things, it's like we grow into our spouse. Likewise with our kids, they will emulate us, and grow to be like us.They learn from us as they grow in the relationship. Our relationship, as we spend time with Jesus, changes us on the inside, which will reflect on our actions.

blessings to you

[jayne]

You know your wife and your kids, you want to spend time with them, you want to show them how much you love them. You put their happiness above your own because you love them. It's the same with Jesus. We love Him and want to please Him. We want to spend time in His presence and sing praises to His glorious name. We want Him to know how much we love Him.

The love you share with your wife changes you, as time goes on you become more alike, agree with more things, it's like we grow into our spouse. Likewise with our kids, they will emulate us, and grow to be like us.They learn from us as they grow in the relationship. Our relationship, as we spend time with Jesus, changes us on the inside, which will reflect on our actions.

blessings to you

Good stuff, there, sister. That's it!!! I've quoted it because it bears repeating! HA!

[-SEEKING-]

Thank you for your reply. Just a few things I'd like point out. Thank you for your time and patience.

OK, think about it like this. God is described as our Father. He was also a friend to Moses and Jesus said that His disciples had come to a point in their relationship that they were His friends.

In these 2 cases the difference I see is that Moses had an actual encounter with God. (Sort of like the difference between online chatting with someone, and actually sitting down to have coffee with them.) And Jesus' disciples could actually "touch" and be "with" Jesus. Know what I'm trying to say.

So think about a perfect relationship that a child (even an adult child) would have with a parent. And think about a perfect relationship that two friends would have.

In my mind there would have to be:
A lot of talking to God. MUCH more informal than we think, yet still extremely respectful. A WHOLE lot more than just our petitions. What if the ONLY conversation that we had with our parents our whole entire life was asking them for stuff. That would be weird. Some people aren't comfortable in talking to God about daily and mundane things because it feels like they are talking to the themselves. But it isn't that at all.

That's definitely a point I can relate to. Sometimes I wonder if my words are heard beyond the room I'm in. How do I know if He even does hear me. I mean I can't deny there have been times when I've prayed about something, and it came to pass. But there's always that "feeling" of "are my words reaching any ears".

A lot of listening to God.

This is one point that I sure need a little more clarity on. Honestly, I'm not sure how to listen to God. Because in my limited mind, He doesn't speak audibly. That's the only sort of listening I know how to do.

I'll leave it at those points for now. Don't want to go off into too many directions.

Thanks again for your time.

[-SEEKING-]

The love you share with your wife changes you, as time goes on you become more alike, agree with more things, it's like we grow into our spouse.

Wow. You just blew me away. This is an excellent point indeed.

I suppose thought it's easier in my mind to get this accomplished, because there is a tangible two-way relationship with my wife. As in were both physically there. You know what I'm trying to say. It's a physical relationship in the sense that we're both physically there. Granted Jesus is no longer here on Earth in physical form, so it's hard to imaging having that same bond with Him.

[jayne]

In these 2 cases the difference I see is that Moses had an actual encounter with God. (Sort of like the difference between online chatting with someone, and actually sitting down to have coffee with them.) And Jesus' disciples could actually "touch" and be "with" Jesus. Know what I'm trying to say.

Yes, I do know what you are trying to say. You make a very valid point. How do you have a relationship with Someone who is invisible and inaudible? Well, Jesus said that "blessed are those who have NOT seen and yet believe." You believe, don't you? And our belief in this invisible God isn't like a little kid who believes in the invisible, yet nonexistent, Easter Bunny.

My belief and your belief makes our faith stronger than those who actually DID hear God audibly and see Jesus literally.

That's definitely a point I can relate to. Sometimes I wonder if my words are heard beyond the room I'm in. How do I know if He even does hear me. I mean I can't deny there have been times when I've prayed about something, and it came to pass. But there's always that "feeling" of "are my words reaching any ears".

Oh my. Feelings. They can be soooo deceptive. God created us with feelings, but we are to govern them, not vice versa. I've been there - wondering if He was listening. And I've prayed many prayers, not wondering, but knowing full well that God did NOT listen to me. And it wasn't my feelings. I've been in prayer before when God, NOT audibly, (I've never heard an audible voice), but a sense of an "impression" said "STOP! I'm not listening." And I knew EXACTLY why.

1. Unconfessed sin in my life. That hinders our prayers so says the Bible. (Isaiah 59:1-2)
2. Self-centered praying (like a kid asking "Santa Claus" for something). That hinders our prayers (James 4:3)

There are other hinderances to prayer, but those two are what get in my way sometimes and God doesn't fail to call me on it. Those times that you "feel" like your prayers aren't going anywhere - could something be hindering your prayers?

This is one point that I sure need a little more clarity on. Honestly, I'm not sure how to listen to God. Because in my limited mind, He doesn't speak audibly. That's the only sort of listening I know how to do.

I'll leave it at those points for now. Don't want to go off into too many directions.

Thanks again for your time.

All I can tell you here is what I believe. The more that we make God real, the more likely we are to hear Him and heed Him. Now what does that mean? No, I'm not talking about an audible Voice. I'm talking about knowing clear as bell that what you are sensing, understanding, learning, and yes, sometimes even feeling is clear and unmistakable direction from God.

So how do we make God more real so that we can hear Him?

Talk to Him more often and in a more conversational tone and about more than just "prayer requests" or "emergency" cries for help. Talk to Him about things like a beautiful flock of birds that you see flying against the background of a brilliant sunset. Tell Him, "I see now God, why you said your creation was 'good' in Genesis." As you are brushing your teeth first thing in the morning and trying to decide as you look in mirror how on earth the mouse circus got in your hair the night before without you waking up, tell God, "Ah, dear Father in Heaven, I see you are expressing your Divine Sense of Humor today. Help me today - if there is going to be any temptations for me to get arrogant and full of myself - help me today to remember what I look like right now. Walk with me today and keep me humble in Your presence."

Also, to "hear" God means what you want to know the words that He says. We have so many of them in the Bible. Reading the Word IS hearing from God.

And finally, Romans 12:1-2 says that if we want "discern" the will of God - to "hear" what He wants - we need to strip away the conformities of this world and allow Him to transform our thinking by renewing our mindset.

[episkopos]

You know your wife and your kids, you want to spend time with them, you want to show them how much you love them. You put their happiness above your own because you love them. It's the same with Jesus. We love Him and want to please Him. We want to spend time in His presence and sing praises to His glorious name. We want Him to know how much we love Him.

The love you share with your wife changes you, as time goes on you become more alike, agree with more things, it's like we grow into our spouse. Likewise with our kids, they will emulate us, and grow to be like us.They learn from us as they grow in the relationship. Our relationship, as we spend time with Jesus, changes us on the inside, which will reflect on our actions.

blessings to you

Very well put!

I see knowing Jesus as becoming a conduit for Him into this world. I think of it as "conductivity". I stress the "conduct" part as we will be judged in the end by our conduct in this world. As we learn to allow His presence to come through us we then grow deeper into a relationship with Christ. As we learn to love and serve others we get more in tune with the purpose of God and become conductive. Gifts of the Spirit then flow out of us. We end up living only for Him...as an extension of Him.

It may be interesting for some to consider that both gold and silver are very conductive. Wood and hay are not!

[Vhayes]

Hiya -SEEKING-

I would like to confirm what Jayne has said about God "talking" to you.

When Tom and I were still getting to know each other and then as we were planning our wedding, we sent letters back and forth on the average of once a day. It was pre-email, pre-computer, so snail mail was the best that could happen. Phone calls were very expensive and happened far more rarely than letters.

At any rate, we grew to know each other very, very well through those letters. It was the base of our years together. There was very little face to face because we actually spent only three weeks together before he had to go back to active duty.

The scriptures really are God's love letters to us. They tell us how he feels about all things but most especially about "me". When I started reading the bible as a personal letter as opposed to an instruction manual, it made a difference. There are times (often??) that I am faced with something, some decision or some occurrence, and a series of verses will pop into my head out of nowhere. I view this as God talking to me personally. He is giving me His assurance that I am on the right track with my thinking.

I hope that makes some sort of sense.
V

[-SEEKING-]

As we learn to allow His presence to come through us we then grow deeper into a relationship with Christ.

Ok. I'm going to need something a little more dumbed down than that. How exactly do we allow His presence to come through us? Please use very specific language. As detailed as possible. Thanks.