Knowing about vs. Knowing Jesus (Slug quote)

[-SEEKING-]

I hope that makes some sort of sense.
V

Indeed it does. Thank you.

[Dani H]

The people who are permanently transformed by Jesus are the ones who actually encounter Him alive and in person.

Someone's teachings that you can leave or take, can't really bring lasting transformation or only to the point where you apply them (or not). It's a "take it or leave it" situation where there's no obligations involved.

If you actually personally encounter the Lord ... that totally changes everything. Because that's when His BEING will actually invade your reality and true transformation can now happen, all up-close and personal.

Think about the personal encounters in your life, and how that shaped you. It starts with your parents, involves close family members and friends, your spouse, etc. It's the people you know personally that have the lasting impact, not the people you read about and whose statements you might appreciate (or not). Personal encounters are extremely powerful. By design, I might add. Because God is a personal God. Once God personally invades your psyche and starts communicating to you in a way that you can understand ... you'll never be the same again.

[Indueseason]

blessings to you

[awestruckchild]

Seeking,
I almost can't believe it that you have NEVER heard His voice!
Haven't you ever been listening to a song or sermon, or praying, and you get goosebumps and feel like waves are washing over and through you? And you are overcome by His presence and tears spring to your eyes and you have joy unspeakable that He and you are sharing a meal together?
THIS is what makes it a personal relationship. Without THIS, yeah, you would have to wonder if He is hearing you. It is a personal relationship BECAUSE He answers and speaks oftentimes. You can't have a personal relationship with anyone if they never answer or talk back.
When you hear Him speak, if you make light of it, He will become faint to your "ear", but if you listen, pay attention, He will speak more often.
No, it isn't a way that we hear with our human ears (although that did happen once with me - just once.) But it is even MORE sure than a physical hearing. It truly does bring a joy and peace that can NOT be explained or fathomed!
Surely you have felt Him speak in this way...at least once or twice.
And if not, you only need to ask Him to let you hear.
Never once did a blind or a deaf man ask Jesus to give them sight or hearing where it says that Jesus refused. But if a deaf or blind man never REALIZED he was deaf or blind, he wouldn't even ASK to be given this! We don't ask for things we have no inkling we even are missing! But if we see that someone else is hearing and seeing something we have never experienced, even though we cannot comprehend what hearing will possibly be like, we ask!
We just ask if He won't let US hear too.
He said, My sheep know My voice.
If anyone cannot say with certainty that they understand this verse and have experienced this verse, all they have to do is ASK!
The verse - blessed are the poor in spirit - means that they are blessed BECAUSE they saw they were poor/lacking in spirit (not being able to hear or see in spirit) and so they asked, and so He blessed them with this wealth.
They are not blessed because they are poor in spirit - we ALL are poor in spirit.
They are blessed because they SAW this poverty and ASKED.

If a man is poor and starving, he will go and humble himself before other men, begging for what he lacks.
If his pride is to great to humble himself to plead for what he lacks, he will go hungry.
God fills the hungry with good things...
they ASK.

[Dani H]

It's not the truth we know about that sets us free ... it's the truth we know that sets us free.

Hmmm ... where have I heard that before??

Also: You've heard God's voice before. I read your testimony. Often, God speaks to us by knowing. The knowledge that kinda just "drops" in there and we're not sure where it came from but there it is, and we know it is, and we know we best get to whatever it is that got put before us.

You've heard God speak to you. Loud and clear. I know you have.

[episkopos]

Ok. I'm going to need something a little more dumbed down than that. How exactly do we allow His presence to come through us? Please use very specific language. As detailed as possible. Thanks.

Remember Abel made a sacrifice and it was accepted by God in the form of fire coming down. When Cain tried to do the same thing...nothin'. But God said...keep trying and when you get it right then his sacrifice would be accepted too. But Cain was not a man of faith but of technique. There was no deeper dimension to Cain that could learn to be pleasing to God.

So we cry out to the Lord with everything we are and have put out on the altar. When the sacrifice is acceptable...the Holy Spirit comes down and fills you. It is like making our cup empty for Him to fill.

Now if this is attempted and nothing happens...continue to learn what is pleasing to God. For us who live in the western world...crying out for God as if for our next breath can seem as remote as walking on the moon. But the end result of seeking hard for the Lord is well worth the exercise.

Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

I like the NASB version of this...

Eph. 5:10 trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.

[aftertheflood]

What you refer to when Moses and others "encountered" God is what theologians call a theophany. It is a manifestation of God that is physically demonstrative in some way. While those do indeed still happen, most Christians experience Him through epiphanic events, something that happens that convinces and affirms faith. This is typically an experience that is non-physical, i.e. something that you can't touch or see but yet a very real experience of Him being with you at that moment. Because of this, such an experience is an affirmation of faith as faith is the crux of knowing Him, of recognizing and living such that He is savior, Lord, and King of your existence. Jesus drives this home in His response to the confession of Peter when He says "Blessed are you, Simon son Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven." Unfortunately, as Slug1 pointed out, doctrines that have become dogmatic are a hindrance to revelatory epiphanies. We are told in His word that you shall know them by their love. This gets morphed by an anthropogenic forcing of our understanding of love into hyper-tolerance and be a good person thing. But knowing Him is characterized by behaviors and characteristics that are laid out in scripture. Theologians break this down by looking at this relationship in two ways; one is the relationship between man and God which is referred to as that which sits in faith. And then that which is between people, referred to as that which sits in life. The former, that which sits in faith is characterized in someones life by "Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness". There is a hunger for this in one who believes, though the whole of their life will see momentary ebbs and flows in this. But in general a believers life is evidenced by a growing in righteousness. The latter, that which sits in life, is characterized by an intentional regard and sacrifice (love) for other believers first, and those out side the body of Christ as well (these are the fruits of the Spirit). A growing humility is at the heart of this, which is a knowing of ones need for God and growing esteeming of others over yourself. Considering Christ we see that these are His attributes - He is righteous having never sinned and a servant who invested Himself in the lives of others. Righteousness without the fruits being evident, that intentional regard and kindness, is false righteousness, legalism and moralism. Intentional regard and kindness for others without a growing in righteousness and a seeking of Him is a false goodness. To sum up, the believers life will be characterized by what John writes: "Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."

[episkopos]

What you refer to when Moses and others "encountered" God is what theologians call a theophany. It is a manifestation of God that is physically demonstrative in some way. While those do indeed still happen, most Christians experience Him through epiphanic events, something that happens that convinces and affirms faith. This is typically an experience that is non-physical, i.e. something that you can't touch or see but yet a very real experience of Him being with you at that moment. Because of this, such an experience is an affirmation of faith as faith is the crux of knowing Him, of recognizing and living such that He is savior, Lord, and King of your existence. Jesus drives this home in His response to the confession of Peter when He says "Blessed are you, Simon son Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven." Unfortunately, as Slug1 pointed out, doctrines that have become dogmatic are a hindrance to revelatory epiphanies. We are told in His word that you shall know them by their love. This gets morphed by an anthropogenic forcing of our understanding of love into hyper-tolerance and be a good person thing. But knowing Him is characterized by behaviors and characteristics that are laid out in scripture. Theologians break this down by looking at this relationship in two ways; one is the relationship between man and God which is referred to as that which sits in faith. And then that which is between people, referred to as that which sits in life. The former, that which sits in life is characterized in someones life by "Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness". There is a hunger for this in one who believes, though the whole of their life will see momentary ebbs and flows in this. But in general a believers life is evidenced by a growing in righteousness. The latter, that which sits in life, is characterized by an intentional regard and sacrifice (love) for other believers first, and those out side the body of Christ as well (these are the fruits of the Spirit). A growing humility is at the heart of this, which is a knowing of ones need for God and growing esteeming of others over yourself. Considering Christ we see that these are His attributes - He is righteous having never sinned and a servant who invested Himself in the lives of others. Righteousness without the fruits being evident, that intentional regard and kindness, is false righteousness, legalism and moralism. Intentional regard and kindness for others without a growing in righteousness and a seeking of Him is a false goodness. To sum up, the believers life will be characterized by what John writes: "Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."

It goes further than that...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

I believe that John is making this distinction to counter those who claim to know Jesus "spiritually" but not in reality. People tend to spiritualize the message of the bible...but this has no power. So what I believe is that if one has never stopped sinning (actually you are too busy being in love with God to think of anything else) then that one has never known Him.

[Ta-An]

Excellent thread!!
-SEEKING-

M, seek Him with ALL your heart.

I can do no better than putting all the posts together in one answer, I can only try and add a bite more....

When I choreograph a dance, it is to me always easy to do Praise (to talk about), but when it comes to do a Worship dance, I want to 'run away' . To Worship God, is to enter into that place, I can describe as the "Holy of Holies", there where I experience Him in my life..... there where there is no veil to cover me, there where I get to see Him face to face, that place where you are prostrate before God, that is when you can hear His heart beat.... that is when you get to know Him

[EarlyCall]

I borrowed this quote from Slug from another thread so as to not derail it.



I would love to hear you elaborate on this point a little more. Sometimes I'm not sure I really understand the knowing Jesus part. At least how that knowledge looks like.

Thanks

My father knew his mother but not his father. He knew about his father, but his father was killed when he was three years old. In fact, his younger sister was not yet born when his father was killed. His older brother by four years I think, maybe five, would have known their father to some extent.

Now you can imagine that his mother told my dad about his father as he got older and asked, and so he learned about and knew about his dad. But he never really knew him. Same for his sister, who was born after his death, and having never saw his face, surely heard of him, but never even saw him let alone know him.

So, one can read all about Jesus in the Bible, but this does not make a personal relationship where one actually comes to know Christ personally.

The unsaved have no true concept of what that really means, first because they don't believe such a thing actually occurs and second because they simply do not know. Still, many of these unsaved people do know of Jesus and some know quite a bit about Him.

Indeed, this works both ways, for God knows all there is to know about each of us, saw every one of our days before one ever came to be, but on the day of judgment, many will hear Jesus say that He does not know them.

[-SEEKING-]

Indeed, this works both ways, for God knows all there is to know about each of us, saw every one of our days before one ever came to be, but on the day of judgment, many will hear Jesus say that He does not know them.

So let's make this practical and applicable. What do we need to do to ensure the Jesus DOES know us?

[Ta-An]

So let's make this practical and applicable. What do we need to do to ensure the Jesus DOES know us?

Seek His face.
M, what I read here is that you are yearning for a relationship with God, like David had

I have been mulling all the answers you have received in my mind, and I'd like to share a "David experience" with you, I however have to please the Receiver of Revenue with copies of invoices etc etc etc.... and when I am done, I'll come back here.

[-SEEKING-]

Seek His face.
M, what I read here is that you are yearning for a relationship with God, like David had

I have been mulling all the answers you have received in my mind, and I'd like to share a "David experience" with you, I however have to please the Receiver of Revenue with copies of invoices etc etc etc.... and when I am done, I'll come back here.

Thank you dear sister.

[Ta-An]

Thank you dear sister.

I now forgot who said what,but what hooked in my memory were these words,,,,
So here we go
Encounter with God.
Relationship with Him, talking to and listening to Him
Being changed by that relationship, becoming one, where His will and your will are the same.... I always smile when I think of this....we could always tell which girl my brother went out with that evening by the perfume of the girl that was clinging to his clothes .... the same with spending time with God, His smell rubs off/clings to you....just for fun, ask your friends, :"What does God smell like?" To me, He smells like Lavender, to my friend He smells like the rain, to another friend He smells like candy-floss
Love letters, I too came from a time like V with Love-letters, at Varsity I daily collected the Residences post from the PO, B/C I knew there would be one for me from my Love in a different town ... who do you know of were writing letters in the Bible?? David

When you read David's psalms, really his prayers recorded, you become aware of the intimate relationship he had with God, and that is really what God wants with each one of us, intimacy, friendship and transparency, nothing veiled. David was a man after God's own heart (1Sam somewhere )
Ask God to reveal His character to you through His Name(s) David knew God as his Shepherd (ps23) his Friend, his Salvation, his Forgiver...... I know God as my Provider, my Banner, my Shield, my Joy, my Restingplace...... the One who loves me, the One who is with me, who Protects me... Ask Him, and He will show you who He is to you.

How does He reveal Himself to you??? Well He says in Ps 27:8 "Seek my face" ....how do you do that, you tell Him that you want to know Him :Tell God that.... There is a song that says: As the deer pants for water so my soul longs after You....You alone are my hearts desire and I long to worship You, You alone are my strength my shield, to you alone may my spirit yield..... You alone are my hearts desire and I long to worship You" I think it is PS 63
Tell Him you are thirsting after Him, tell Him ....., Tell Him that you hunger after Him, there is also another song that goes like this : "Hungry I come to You for I Know You satisfy..."

Remember, God invites you to seek Him.....
Make time
Have a dedicated appointment with God daily, ask Him to wake you up early, ask Him to give you that yearning to hunger after Him .....

I pray that you too will get to smell the aroma of His presence, to let His light shine through you and lean your head on His shoulder to hear the beat of his heart..... He invites you.... it is for you to respond.

Read / Pray David's prayers

I 4 U to become a man after God's own heart and that He will become your Passion and your Reward.

[EarlyCall]

So let's make this practical and applicable. What do we need to do to ensure the Jesus DOES know us?

Seek God with all we are.