Boycott of Chick-Fil-A

[EarlyCall]

Did I miss something? Do you think I was being snide? I wasn't. Not at all.

Fire and Brimstone works. On BELIEVERS. Show me anywhere that Paul. Peter or any of the apostles talked to unbelievers about individual sin. Let alone Jesus.

You should read how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees. He really let them have it face-to-face more than once! And yes, to them individually and specific sins. Jesus was preaching fire and brimstone to them for certain.

But your point is not lost on me. I don't agree with you in that I think you lack balance, but by the same token that lack of balance exists on the other side of the coin as well. You know, John the Baptist really let Herod have it. Read that again. He specifically told him as an individual of specific sin. That was a bit of fire and brimstone I think. Seems like it to me anyway.

Having said that, my father, who was a minister, told the people in church to love those that were lost. A man in the church, going door-to-door to witness once told someone that they were going to hell for smoking. I know this because I know the person he told this to and they told me. My father spoke from the pulpit to love the lost.

What is required is balance and great wisdom, which is not had short of God giving it. The problem comes in when we think we are wise enough without God's wisdom, and when we let our own personal agendas get in the way of God's agenda.

So again, while I disagree in part with you, surely you have a valid point. We should remember that God tells us that His love, when we are yet lost, is His method to woo us to Himself. He draws us to Himself through love. This we need to remember and take to heart.

[RevLogos]

You should read how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees. He really let them have it face-to-face more than once! And yes, to them individually and specific sins. Jesus was preaching fire and brimstone to them for certain.

But your point is not lost on me. I don't agree with you in that I think you lack balance, but by the same token that lack of balance exists on the other side of the coin as well. You know, John the Baptist really let Herod have it. Read that again. He specifically told him as an individual of specific sin. That was a bit of fire and brimstone I think. Seems like it to me anyway.

Having said that, my father, who was a minister, told the people in church to love those that were lost. A man in the church, going door-to-door to witness once told someone that they were going to hell for smoking. I know this because I know the person he told this to and they told me. My father spoke from the pulpit to love the lost.

What is required is balance and great wisdom, which is not had short of God giving it. The problem comes in when we think we are wise enough without God's wisdom, and when we let our own personal agendas get in the way of God's agenda.

So again, while I disagree in part with you, surely you have a valid point. We should remember that God tells us that His love, when we are yet lost, is His method to woo us to Himself. He draws us to Himself through love. This we need to remember and take to heart.

For what its worth, I spent most of my life as a non-Christian (so far). Fire and brimstone never impressed me. I thought it was lame. Any why not? I didn't believe in hell anyway.

When Jesus did come knocking, I looked back at those who had made an impression on me. A single handful of people who had sewn a seed; something I hardly noticed. So what made those people different? They lived as if they really believed what they said they believed. To put it as succinctly as possible, they lived more for others than themselves. It isn’t the righteousness that gets noticed; it’s the selflessness.

I was not saved by anything anyone said or did. But in a mysterious way, those witnesses played an important role. Perhaps without them I would never have listened.

[Vhayes]

Well, but they also didn't live in a time or place where they had that option. However, what did God say to the kings of Israel concerning sin and laws of the land? God didn't separate the two from each other.

I've seen you say more than once that you don't care about what the unsaved do concerning their sex lifestyle, but you should, because you too will pay a dear price for their sin. You pay in two ways. One will be that we suffer the consequences of our sins and the sins of others. This is an immutable law that God put in place. The second way in which you will pay is the judgment of God upon this nation for its sins. People mistakenly think that God will not include His judgment upon the righteous when He sends it upon a sinful nation, but this is entirely contrary to His word. It is an unfortunate truth that the righteous most surely do pay the price for the sins of the wicked. So perhaps you should care.

Just something to think about.

I am not an adherent to the belief that the United States is modern day Israel. As an aside, I don't even think modern day Israel is the Old Testament equivalent of Israel. In my head, God judges individuals now and what they do with Jesus.

[Vhayes]

You should read how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees. He really let them have it face-to-face more than once! And yes, to them individually and specific sins. Jesus was preaching fire and brimstone to them for certain.

But your point is not lost on me. I don't agree with you in that I think you lack balance, but by the same token that lack of balance exists on the other side of the coin as well. You know, John the Baptist really let Herod have it. Read that again. He specifically told him as an individual of specific sin. That was a bit of fire and brimstone I think. Seems like it to me anyway.

Having said that, my father, who was a minister, told the people in church to love those that were lost. A man in the church, going door-to-door to witness once told someone that they were going to hell for smoking. I know this because I know the person he told this to and they told me. My father spoke from the pulpit to love the lost.

What is required is balance and great wisdom, which is not had short of God giving it. The problem comes in when we think we are wise enough without God's wisdom, and when we let our own personal agendas get in the way of God's agenda.

So again, while I disagree in part with you, surely you have a valid point. We should remember that God tells us that His love, when we are yet lost, is His method to woo us to Himself. He draws us to Himself through love. This we need to remember and take to heart.

Thanks for this post, EC. balance is the key. You mention the Pharisees - they WERE the church people in that era and they were leading people way off the rails.

But I do appreciate what you have said here.
V

[Vhayes]

For what its worth, I spent most of my life as a non-Christian (so far). Fire and brimstone never impressed me. I thought it was lame. Any why not? I didn't believe in hell anyway.

When Jesus did come knocking, I looked back at those who had made an impression on me. A single handful of people who had sewn a seed; something I hardly noticed. So what made those people different? They lived as if they really believed what they said they believed. To put it as succinctly as possible, they lived more for others than themselves. It isn’t the righteousness that gets noticed; it’s the selflessness.

I was not saved by anything anyone said or did. But in a mysterious way, those witnesses played an important role. Perhaps without them I would never have listened.

What a love;y, lovely testimony to God's love. THANK YOU for sharing this!

[EarlyCall]

Thanks for this post, EC. balance is the key. You mention the Pharisees - they WERE the church people in that era and they were leading people way off the rails.

But I do appreciate what you have said here.
V

Well, that is a good point you make you make about the Pharisees. I hope I made it clear in my previous post that I only partly disagree with you, but I most certainly do agree with you that love is most important and that message is what Christ spoke the loudest. But, it was not the only message He spoke nor the only message God has spoken in His word - in the NT.

I also hope I don't come across as some kind of expert steeped in great wisdom and knowledge and understanding, because I am not. And, the older I get, the more I do learn just how sadly true this is. I too appreciate the points you make and the thinking they bring about. I am enjoying the discussion with you, but that has always been the case.

[Vhayes]

Well, that is a good point you make you make about the Pharisees. I hope I made it clear in my previous post that I only partly disagree with you, but I most certainly do agree with you that love is most important and that message is what Christ spoke the loudest. But, it was not the only message He spoke nor the only message God has spoken in His word - in the NT.

I also hope I don't come across as some kind of expert steeped in great wisdom and knowledge and understanding, because I am not. And, the older I get, the more I do learn just how sadly true this is. I too appreciate the points you make and the thinking they bring about. I am enjoying the discussion with you, but that has always been the case.

I have come to respect you and the way you present yourself. It is and has been a pleasure to get to know you. If you ever find yourself in the Capitol city for whatever reason, you will have to visit Tom and myself.

Thanks, EC!
V

[EarlyCall]

I have come to respect you and the way you present yourself. It is and has been a pleasure to get to know you. If you ever find yourself in the Capitol city for whatever reason, you will have to visit Tom and myself.

Thanks, EC!
V

Would that be TomH by any chance?

You know, I'd love to do that and might just take you up on that. I am taking some vacation the first week of September, and about a week ago I told the wife we ought to see some sights in the state. She started perusing and came upon Dublin and I dunno, something about their historic downtown or something, but it sounded interesting.

I've driven from Cinci to the Akron/Canton area and the reverse trip, just depended upon the area I lived in at the time, and traveled 71 north and south more times than I can count!

Anyway, the respect is surely mutual.

[keck553]

Love the person. Totally. Unequivocally. The Holy Spirit will deal with their sin AFTER they come to know Who Jesus is and what He has done for them. Individual "thems".

As Paul said, "And such were some of you...".

Gee, what was Jonah thinking........

[TomH]

Gee, what was Jonah thinking........

Somewhere between Jonah and Paul. Let's see,,,,, what happened after Jonah, and before Paul?

[keck553]

Somewhere between Jonah and Paul. Let's see,,,,, what happened after Jonah, and before Paul?

What are you trying to say? Jonah preached condemnation to unbelievers by the order of God. He would ratiher have left them alone to their own destruction. I wonder if that is not tihe additude of some Christians today who avoid / are afraid to expose sin for what it is, and of the coming destruction. And of salvation.

[keck553]

Two points. One, the woman was caught sinning. There wasn't an apology as far as I know from the woman.
So no, repentance wasn't the issue. And Jesus's command to her was the end of the story. Did she repent? We're not told.

.

Why do so many miss the entire point of this story? The subject isn't the lawlessness of woman, the subject lawlessness of those whp brought her to Jesus. The Law defines how justice is to be dispensed. Mobs aren't part of that system.

She was the subject of a mistrial. She got the same sentence any accused person would receive in a mistrial today. None.

Does God frgive the unrepentent? No.

[TomH]

What are you trying to say? Jonah preached condemnation to unbelievers by the order of God. He would ratiher have left them alone to their own destruction. I wonder if that is not tihe additude of some Christians today who avoid / are afraid to expose sin for what it is, and of the coming destruction. And of salvation.

Do you have a NT reference specifically showing when a Christian should seek out a nonchristian with the express purpose of pointing out their sin?

If we are to go into the world to give the Good News, show me the Scripture that states the Good News must be secondary to pointing to the unbelievers sins.

As has been stated, hellfire and brimstone should be reserved for the Christian, and then as a way of expressing the importance of the commandment for spreading the Good News.

Once an unbeliever believes, hell will become real to them. Until that point, hell to the unbeliever is no more real than God.

It's the old cart before the horse. You don't make hell real in order to convince someone there is a Savior.

[Vhayes]

I think there are many "points" to the story. One is that Jesus "saved" the woman then talked with her. Huge lesson or point in my opinion.

[-SEEKING-]

Just as a side note, when the Lord touched my heart by using an old friend of mine, my friend didn't try to convince me how sinful I was, he merely pointed out how much God loved me. That more than anything else is what touched my heart. I wonder why we now think the methods that worked for us, can't work on others.