Acts 17:24-28

[LookingUp]

Interesting thoughts, sorry it took me a while to respond I have been really busy with work. I am surprised that no one went against your comment above. Since I am some what playing Devils Advocate I have to ask the following.

You state that "God may have know that man would eventually "miss the mark" but it may have no entered his mind the degree of wickedness man would stoop to..." My first question is if he may have known man would eventually missed the mark would the above statement the atheist made that God is responsible for sin?

Didn't God take responsibility for sin on the cross? What's your take on that?

It seems to me that God created beings capable with the ability to express love, at least to a certain degree, whatever that degree is. And that for this expression of love exist, one must necessarily have an equal amount of room for sin. In other words, one must be capable of sinning to at least the same degree he is capable of loving. I have a question. If one chooses to have a child, is the parent responsible for the child's sin? What about when the child is an adult...is the procreator/parent responsible?

Also you noted he may have known or that it may have not entered his mind how low man would go... with those statements how could one say that God knows the future?

He wouldn't know the future as fact/definite.

[smcllr]

Uric,

Sorry it took me so long to reply to you but it did allow you to go a little futrther in formulating your question or at least, making your question a little more clear, so maybe it was for the best.

Anyway, I think I have narrowed down your problem (not that I think you have a problem; but your admitted problem) to two issues. 1) God's guilt because he created... 2) God's guilt because he foreknew that he created...

Knowing sin would enter the world does not make one guilty of creating sin which I will address but first consider this scenario for example. Let's say YOU are the creator: you know what will happen from beginning to end. You know the evil that will enter the world and the outcome of that evil but you do it anyway. Are you guilty of creating evil? or are you just guilty of creating people who choose to do evil? Keep in mind you intend it for good though evil came of it.

Your answer depends on your understanding of the free will which can be cleared up simply but first, you need to know that evil is not a thing that can be created. You don't look at a fine wood grain and say God created fine-ness. Fine is a description or a quality of the wood. he may have caused the grain to be tight enough that we by comparison would call it fine but God didn't create "fine". Parallel to that, evil is a description or a quality of character. However, unparallel, God did not create the person with an evil character. When everyone was born they were innocent. Neither did God cause them to become evil because that is contrary to God's professed purpose for all men to come to repentance. So why do people become evil? Because of their desire over and against the God who created them to be good. We call that free will. If Calvanism is true then God did create people to be evil and chose that for them. Calvinists would say, "No. Everyone is evil and God chooses to make some good." But God is still choosing some to be bad if he doesn't make them all good and therefore, he who knows the good he ought to do and does not do it, that too is sin. It seems clear to me that God created people who at the time of their creation are innocent and those people because of the desire to please themselves rather than God, chose to rebel. The guilt falls on people not God.

You may not see it right away in my above question but that was calculated. I wanted you to consider the question fully in order to point out that if one merely creates people who choose evil it is not the same as creating evil because you eliminate two other active beings with that assumption: Satan and the person you created. Now I believe that God created Satan as a devine tester of people (not a popular view, I know) because God could have gotten rid of him at anytime now, but he keeps him around. Although, I still don't think God is responsible for evil because it is not God's will (ie desire) for anyone to sin even if he wants them to be tested. So who's will is it? That's easy. The person you created. It is their own will or desire. It says in James 1 that no man is tested by God but he is enticed by "his own lust". Who entices? Again, easy. It is Satan. So assuming that God must be guilty because he created doesn't make sense to me because you are shifting the guilt off of the individuals who are resposnible. Your question when broken down sounds as if the individual was a victim of sin and God did this to him but no one who has evil children ever thinks the child was a victim of himself. You might say Satan was created by God, so God is still guilty. Nope. God is still desiring that all should come to repentance which sounds like he doesn't want us to sin. Why Satan though? The same reason cars are destroyed everyday in crash tests: not in hopes that crashes will take place but that when they do, the car will have saved the life that was inside.

And now the second issue. Foreknowledge certainly makes God guilty because although one can intend and create thing to be good, if he absolutely knows it will be evil, his intentions are no good because he has foreknowledge of the contrary. At least it seems that way. It seems that once we arrive at this point of the argument we tend to shut down our brains and choose doctrine and just go with it. I kinda have a different approach. I consider the same scenario for myself. If I knew that the first 2 out of 5 of my children would turn out to be evil, would I just not have any children at all. No. If I knew that the greatest treasure in my life would be my 3rd, 4th and 5th child I would have my first and second child for that reason. There would be heartbreak and my desire for them to be good people would not be in question, but it is the treasure in the field that leads the worker of the field to sell all he owns to buy the entire field in Mt 13. I think God bought the field for the treasure in it. Likewise, he had all his children in order to have the children he desired; the godly ones. Does it make his intentions evil? I don't know how one would even consider that as an option. Does it make him evil? Again, not sure how. He knew some would be evil but he also knew some would be good.

So creating people is what God is guilty of. The people are guilty of choosing pleasure for a season, against God's intent, design, desire, and purpose. Your questions make God out to be the only active party and everyone else puppets in his script but if you open up your understanding to free will you can see other active parties and other authors as well.

In Malachi 2 around verse 15 or 18 in the NKJV it says that God made the 2, 1 flesh because he desired a godly offspring. He was speaking of marriage. Marriage was designed because God didn't just want a ton of kids but because he wanted Godly kids.

I hope I have helped with your admitted problem.

God bless,

Sam