Muslims Penetrating our Government

[adampjr]

You do realize that people could say the same thing about Christians, right? Or Jews?

There are always radical portions of any religion.

Precisely. Moses and Joshua weren't exactly a hippies either.

[Vhayes]

Precisely. Moses and Joshua weren't exactly a hippies either.

That isn't even what I was thinking about. You have the Westboro Baptists, Christian Identity, Phineas Priests, etc. If someone of another religion concentrated on those "denominations" of Christianity, they could make a case that Christianity is racist, hatefilled and angry. Couple that with the Great Commission and voila - you have a hate-filled religion that wants to take over the world.

But then, hey, what do I know?

[Fenris]

With that I agree totally.

Hopefully it happens soon. Although recent events do not leave me particularly optimistic.

[adampjr]

That isn't even what I was thinking about. You have the Westboro Baptists, Christian Identity, Phineas Priests, etc. If someone of another religion concentrated on those "denominations" of Christianity, they could make a case that Christianity is racist, hatefilled and angry. Couple that with the Great Commission and voila - you have a hate-filled religion that wants to take over the world.

But then, hey, what do I know?

No yes I know of all that stuff too. I only added my bit to show radicalism can cherrypick scriptures to cite as well.

[Fenris]

That isn't even what I was thinking about. You have the Westboro Baptists, Christian Identity, Phineas Priests, etc. If someone of another religion concentrated on those "denominations" of Christianity, they could make a case that Christianity is racist, hatefilled and angry. Couple that with the Great Commission and voila - you have a hate-filled religion that wants to take over the world. But then, hey, what do I know?

Two things. First, in Christianity the "bad" groups are in a tiny minority. And second, that minority is shunned by the majority. In Islam, it's not clear how many are hot-to-trot Jihadists, but by way of example the Muslim Brotherhood AKA "Hamas in Egypt" just got voted into power. And the rest either embrace these groups or are apologists for them. Neither of these things are controversial or deniable.

[adampjr]

Two things. First, in Christianity the "bad" groups are in a tiny minority. And second, that minority is shunned by the majority. In Islam, it's not clear how many are hot-to-trot Jihadists, but by way of example the Muslim Brotherhood AKA "Hamas in Egypt" just got voted into power. And the rest either embrace these groups or are apologists for them. Neither of these things are controversial or deniable.

None of them are deniable but none of them mean Mosque builders are unpeaceable.

[Fenris]

None of them are deniable but none of them mean Mosque builders are unpeaceable.

I never said the mosque builders were unpeaceable. I said Islam needs reform.

[adampjr]

I never said the mosque builders were unpeaceable. I said Islam needs reform.

I know. Don't read every statement I make like its meant to contradict you.

[Fenris]

I know. Don't read every statement I make like its meant to contradict you.

OK. So Muslims may build mosques in the west and practice their religion freely. When the same could be said for Christians in Muslim countries, then we're making progress.

[adampjr]

OK. So Muslims may build mosques in the west and practice their religion freely. When the same could be said for Christians in Muslim countries, then we're making progress.

I'm not going to talk about "we" globally, but "we" and individuals can only control how we treat others. That should not be dependent on what other people do, much less other people on the other side of the world.

[Fenris]

Here's another symptom of broken society: At Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi’s address to an Islamic Solidarity Conference in Mecca, he said that the most urgent problem facing the Muslim world today is the Palestinian issue. So let's look at some facts: Since the Syrian uprising began about 17 months ago, about 20,000 people have been killed. The number of Palestinian killed by Israel during that time period is about 150. Why are those 20,000 Syrian lives less valuable than the 150 Palestinian lives?

[David Taylor]

My perception of Islam is not based on CNN.
Do all nominal Christians and churches follow Jesus. Most definitely not. Neither with Muslims. There are many mosques in the world whose "congregations" are entirely peaceable.

Interesting.

So you are saying that many mosques do not follow the teachings of Mohammed; and do not instruct the muslims who visit them to emulate Mohammed in word and deed?

Do most muslims you are familar with then, reject the idea of emulating Mohammed in word and deed? If so, I agree with you, there can be entirely peaceable Muslims out there....but they would only be following the Meccan Koran, not the Medinan Koran, and they most certainly would not be following the words and deeds of Mohammed as a whole as found in the Hadith or Sirat....and the Meccan Koran is only a very, very small subset of what Mohammed taught, of which is much much more harmonizable with the beliefs of Judaism and Christianity.

Mohammed's total view of Islam when considering the Medinan Koran and the Sunnah of Islam found in the Sirat and the Hadith was much different though; and was to subjegate all other religions and peoples to submit to Islam, so that Islam would become the only religion and political system on the earth; - not to coexist with them. If Mohammed had taught peace and coexistence instead of subjegation; and had his followers since them followed that; then there would be no reason for any Christian, Jew, Hindu, Bhuddist, or other non-Muslim in the world to associate the phrase 'Allah Akbar' as the deathcry of an impending muslim-lead terrorist attack.

So what is it? Should muslims live peaceably and coexist with non-muslims around them and reject Mohammed as the true prophet of Allah, and denounce following Mohammed in word or deed, or should muslims follow Mohammed in word and deed, and do the things that Mohammed did and taught concerning subjegating all kafirs so Islam is the lone religious/political system of the Earth?

[Ceegen]

All mosques are an abomination. They build them to declare what they have conquered. Any land with a mosque on it, is "Muslim land". They still see Portugal and Spain as "theirs".

[Bryan Durel]

Has anyone else heard of the Pakistanians and their blasphemy laws? Apparently its used to target Christians living there and the sentence for it is death

[Ceegen]

Has anyone else heard of the Pakistanians and their blasphemy laws? Apparently its used to target Christians living there and the sentence for it is death

Christians are persecuted the world over. A great Christian non-profit organization called "Voice of the Martyrs" shows us how vain we Christians here in America really are, and how lightly we take our freedom to preach The Gospel to the point of laziness. We aren't persecuted for preaching Jesus, but we stop ourselves from doing so for a variety of excuses. It's sad, really.

Anyway, if you're interested, here is the link to the Voice of the Martyrs web page:
http://www.persecution.com/