False intimacy

[LaMaisonDeTouTou]

Hello,

I'm new to the board.

I joined because I'm considering hosting an event within my area for Christian men to look at and discuss false intimacy. This has led me to a lot of googling of places of discussion, and that googling has tested one of my original hypothesis to be true: false intimacy is something that, as a church, we don't understand, and are ill-equipped to deal with. I find this startling, because it is a huge issue - and has been for quite some time. I believe false intimacy to be a major crippler of the church. Of course, it can affect women too, but men and women are such different beasts I can only talk from a man's perspective!

I want to raise a couple of discussion points, but first I'd like to define what I mean by 'false intimacy'. Simply put, it is the misuse of the sexual desires we were given by God. False intimacy is looking for sexual intimacy in any way that God did not intend. The most obvious example of this is pornography, but includes a wide array of sexual areas, such as fetishes, prostitution, cybersex, or dominance (which itself could be as part of an agreed arrangement, or an attitude of sex where it is about "i" not "us").

questions...

- what is your own understanding of false intimacy? is it a term you've hear of before I came along?
- have you heard any teaching whatsoever about any of the topics i've included in the definition - teaching not just in sermons, but in other settings, e.g, house groups, discussions with friends, marriage prep, Christian camps. If so, what?
- if you've struggled with false intimacy, what has helped you?



--
To answer one of my own questions...

A large motivation for me in this is to help others. As i've mentioned elsewhere, I'm a recovering porn addict. I use that term in the same way that an AA member remains a 'recovering alcoholic' till the end of their life, and Russell Brand calls himself a "recovering drug addict" despite being clean for years. It reminds me that lustful temptations will probably never go away from my life. I began watching porn in my early teens and gradually grew addicted - I moved to other forms of false intimacy (cybersex, dressing in women's clothing being two of them). At it's very worst stages it has affected my current relationship in ways I can't describe here (engaged - marrying in three weeks! CANNOT WAIT!)

My understanding of any false intimacy is that there is at one level a misunderstanding of what sex is for (and what it aint for). We need to be taught from the bible what sex is about; and how the fall affected that; and how Christ redeems it.

But at the same time, as Schaumburg says so much better than I could, it stems from "us[ing] sexual fulfillment to compensate for the painful emptiness and loneliness of a fallen world". That's a personal thing, which takes a lot of time to unravel.

So for me, counselling helps. As does reading about the issue - the Pink Cross Foundation, for example, has stories about ex porn actresses that just melts my heart and makes me hate porn even more! and understanding of the addiction process.

The freedom I have found from the porn is the very freedom Christ called me to. And as I grow in love toward him i'm more FREE to truly love others - including my fiance. And it's a cycle. THe more I live, the more I love living, the more I am thankful for Christ, the more I love him... and the more I'm able to live, leading the process to go on and on!


...thoughts? experiences?

[if you've made it through this essay of a post, thankyou! and congratulations! go grab yourself a cup of tea!]


Ewan

[Dani H]

I think what you call "false intimacy" is really just a substitution for God. That can be applied to anything we focus on rather than Him, pretty much; all those things that seem tantalizing but can never really satisfy our deepest longing. Along with that goes our substitution for real human relationship because let's face it, people are not always very good at those, and so pain is part of it, so our desire to escape can become pretty strong.

Having said all that ... accept no substitutions.

Porn may be an illusion performed by paid actors, but the arousal it brings is nonetheless real. The only foolproof guard I know against that is coming to the realization is that sex is, in fact, an act of worship (Romans 12:1 applies to sex the same way it does to everything else we do with our bodies). Let that worship be of God, not of Self (or false deities). We have to let Jesus show us the reality of the redemption of our bodies and connect them with God in free, willing submission to Him, instead of submission to the world's lusts and temptation; not in some mysterious ethereal way but in very a real way; that of service, of discipline, of realizing the work of God our bodies truly are, of respecting the power of sex and of our various urges and desires, and learning to channel them in the right way.

P.S. I write essays too (can you tell?) so reading yours ... no sweat.

[chad]

It sounds like what your describing as false intimacy, the bible refers to as sexual immorality.

[Diggindeeper]

It sounds like what your describing as false intimacy, the bible refers to as sexual immorality.

I agree. But also, I see Ewan's 'false intimacy' at the core as being first and foremost a depraved view of women as a group. We are people, the same as you men are...people! You seem to see us as 'body parts to be used by men'. I am always offended if seen as 'body parts' or to put it another way, a 'man's toy'.

At the core, it is a depraved way of seeing 'women'. Its depravity.

Of course, I also see some women, especially the very young, as a group who wants to be seen as 'body parts.' But this is just as depraved as the man's wrong point of view. And that's why I have not called us 'ladies' thus far.

I consider myself to be a 'lady' more than just a mere 'woman'. A lady does not see herself as 'body parts' to make a man lust. She deserves to be seen as a 'lady'.

Does any of that make sense to you?

[adampjr]

Yea, I agree with chad that "false intimacy" is the same as sexual immorality, perhaps a more narrow category. I like the term false intimacy in that perhaps it better addresses the causes that people fall into such ways of thought. I don;t know taht I've heard the term before, but I like it. I'm not sure that I agree with your insinuation that any of that wierd stuff is immoral in itself, but otherwise i emphatically agree with your post.

As you poiont out, DiD, many young women beg to be viewed in the way describe. How a specific women is generally seen is largely up to her.

[chad]

Yes of course. Woman want to look and be beautiful, for thier own reasons, one being for thier own self-esteem. The bible speaks of anyone who looks at woman lustfully, in his heart they commit adultery (Mt 5:28).

I was reading Ephesians 4:17-23 last night. In the NIV verson that I use, the title is living as children of light, which paul writes on the reason why the world indulges in sensuality and he encourages us to put off our old self and it's decietful desires and live as with a new attitude of mind, in righteousness and holiness.

Living as Children of Light - Ephesians 4:17-23 (NIV 84)
17 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. 18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. 19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.

20 You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. 21 Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

I agree. But also, I see Ewan's 'false intimacy' at the core as being first and foremost a depraved view of women as a group. We are people, the same as you men are...people! You seem to see us as 'body parts to be used by men'. I am always offended if seen as 'body parts' or to put it another way, a 'man's toy'.

At the core, it is a depraved way of seeing 'women'. Its depravity.

Of course, I also see some women, especially the very young, as a group who wants to be seen as 'body parts.' But this is just as depraved as the man's wrong point of view. And that's why I have not called us 'ladies' thus far.

I consider myself to be a 'lady' more than just a mere 'woman'. A lady does not see herself as 'body parts' to make a man lust. She deserves to be seen as a 'lady'.

Does any of that make sense to you?

[Ceegen]

I believe the basis of false intimacy is rooted in the love of self over love of others: Pride and selfishness.

Some people love themselves more than they love their spouse, and it causes real problems. (Men and women, really, but...). Too many men expect certain things from their wife without giving anything in return. I don't mean just buying her flowers every once in a while, but spending time with her, and just being there for each other. This causes us to go "whoring" after other *ahem* activities.

No matter what you say or do, people will get defensive about it and always try to shift blame to someone or something else. Just like Adam in the Garden of Eden, when he basically blamed God for creating the woman for him. This rift between men and women has existed since then, and Satan planned it that way. Why else did the serpent go to the woman first, to deceive her? So Adam would shift the blame for his sin, to Eve.

Divide and conquer...

[IMINXTC]

Without that array of complex interchanges that take place between a commited man and his wife, sex itself can be a false intimacy.

Sex for it's own gratification - merely physical - cannot fill the common need for intimacy, but can only imitate, and as been demonstrated many times, can become a demanding yet poor substitue for fullfilment, and is often a driving force behind sexual addtictions. The unbelieving world appears to increasingly follow after that false intimacy which can never truly fulfill.

An immature boy will offer initmacy, which he is no way ready for, to attain sex, which he is ready for.

An Immature girl will offer sex, which she in no way ready for, to attain intimacy, which she is ready for.

To be intimate is to be mutually unveiled.

[justsayin']

All sins, sexual or otherwise stem from the ego. Wanting to satisfy self.
Sin begins by thinking (even if it is only subconsciouly), that our self somehow needs or deserves that satifaction/pleasure.
Getting rid of ego and putting what would please God as first and foremost, is a way I have found to assist with many sins. When I want something I ask, why should I have that?
The fact that I am His and He is mine is then enough for me.
Drink from the water that truly satisfies.

[Scooby_Snacks]

Just a side note. I like this break-down of the word intimacy.
INTO-SEE-ME.

Just like I reveal who I really am, what is really going on with me to Jesus, I believe true intimacy is being real with one another.

Maybe sometimes it is difficult for people to do this, because they are not fully aware themselves, or deny what is going on with them. Maybe they dont trust that if they are really honest, they might be abandoned by the people they are honest with. So fear gets in the way too.
There are defensive walls up...as "protection" that keeps true intimacy out.

So knowing what false intimacy is, is good, but knowing how to acheive true intimacy would be great!

[jecelpabor]

When I read the title, I thought this thread would be all about false intimacy with God. Hmmm, but anyway, this thread is very helpful. I for one got ensnared by this sin, but now I'm free. I also like the INTO-SEE-ME. When all you see is yourself, it's waaay too easy to be trapped by the devil and sin. But if you're INTO-JESUS, and put Him first. everything happens for good. This is the first commandment! God bless us all!

[andrew_no_one]

Just for fun:

Galatians 5:16
So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

[jesusislord]

Grace and peace to all,

Hear GOD through you Andrew_no one!! Loud and " just for fun!! "

Praise JESUS!!!
GOD always has a sense of humor through us.
Love the on point answer for all this diversion through the shameful/humble statement, " just for fun!!". LOL!!!! GOD IS GREAT!!
LOVE IT!


Sin is sin.
Spirit is willing and flesh weak.
If we have to label it, categorize, to decipher it, that means we are looking at it too much.
Trust, fast, pray, and believe in the LORD through JESUS CHRIST.
Tell your problems about GOD, not tell GOD your problems.
HE sees them.
Don't spread them.
A Sin not done by someone else can influence that person/s to that sin. Be careful.
Do nothing to have your brothers and sisters stumble.
Yet, if we need to talk to people. IF!! After prayer and fasting in faith.
Then, we, look for people quietly who have conquered through JESUS CHRIST those same sins we suffer from.
Trust in HIM, HE will guide, provide, and more....
Let us all follow the Bible ways always.

1 CORINTHIANS 1:27-31
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence.
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

EPHESIANS 5:6-12
SPEAK NO SINS OUT TO OTHERS
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

MARK 9:17-29
PRAY and FAST THOSE DEMONS OF SIN AWAY THROUGH FAITH!! ALLELUIA!!
And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.
And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out?
And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

[Scooby_Snacks]

When I think about intimacy between human beings...one of the things that brings that about is confession. I believe we are here for one another (in a contest of safety and trust that is tried) in order to heal. Confession is a big part of intimacy with myself and God, why would it not be with others?

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed.
The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. James 5:16.

Of course if you are confessing sins to someone who will just trample private information along with you under their feet....not a pretty picture.