Bible

[1david]

First I would like to say that I think the Bible is a good book and has a lot to offer so that no-one gets that wrong idea. I did go through a discipleship program at my church and studied the book over and over and I like it. I think that if more people applied it’s teachings to their life they would become closer to a peaceful life and the world would befit also. However, I don’t see it being something to worship and I think it should not be taken too literal. You see I am faithful and I try to be spiritual also, but I am practical. I can’t see how men, human men could write anything even Gods word without mistakes and subjecting it to their own values, beliefs, and norms. God did not write the Bible. And anything used to verify that it is God’s word comes from the Bible, which He did not write. That’s just one thing and I am not here to take a stand against it. Therefore, I rely on my spirit to lead me. My spirit does lead me to the Bible and through the Bible and helps me find things to apply to my life. I just thought I would share.

[TrustGzus]

Greetings David, I agree with some of what you say and disagree with some of what you say. Let's break it down.

First I would like to say that I think the Bible is a good book and has a lot to offer so that no-one gets that wrong idea. I did go through a discipleship program at my church and studied the book over and over and I like it. I think that if more people applied it’s teachings to their life they would become closer to a peaceful life and the world would befit also.

I agree with everything you said here. If anything, I think you understate. By that I mean that what you said, I could say of many books.

However, I don’t see it being something to worship

I don't think anyone here would claim to worship the Bible. It's held in higher esteem by most here than you are holding it, but it is a book still and books are not to be worshiped.

and I think it should not be taken too literal.

Explain. Parts of the Bible are poetic. So when the Bible says in a poetic portion all the trees of the field clap their hands and the mountains and hills break forth into singing, I don't take that to mean that trees have hands to clap with and that mountains and hills have mouths and sing songs. No one here takes it too literally - in general.

You see I am faithful and I try to be spiritual also, but I am practical.

Me too.

I can’t see how men, human men could write anything even Gods word without mistakes and subjecting it to their own values, beliefs, and norms.

You think men can't write a book without mistakes? Do you worry anytime you use a phone book or a dictionary? Do you not trust that the dictionary has correct definitions or misspells the words? It's not impossible for men to write a perfect book. Not likely. Not often. But not impossible.

God did not write the Bible.

How did you conclude this?

And anything used to verify that it is God’s word comes from the Bible,

Well, we can't verify the Bible to be God's word by things not from the Bible. I can't pull out my auto repair manual to prove the Bible is God's word. So of course things used to verify the claim that the Bible is God's word must come from the Bible. But then those claims can be tested and found to be true or false.

which He did not write.

Saying this twice doesn't make it more true. It still might be God's word. It might not be. You haven't provided any evidence for your claim. All you've stated is your view.

That’s just one thing and I am not here to take a stand against it.

Ok.

Therefore, I rely on my spirit to lead me. My spirit does lead me to the Bible and through the Bible and helps me find things to apply to my life. I just thought I would share.

Thanks for sharing. I mean that sincerely. However, if you think men can't write a book without error, then why should you trust your spirit? Is it impossible for your spirit to err? What if your spirit tells you the Bible is not God's word and another person's "spirit" tells them the Bible is God's word?

The Bible either is God's word or the Bible is not God's word. Therefore, someone's spirit is in error.

How do you propose to test people's spirits?

Grace & peace to you,

Joe

[Ceegen]

First I would like to say that I think the Bible is a good book and has a lot to offer so that no-one gets that wrong idea. I did go through a discipleship program at my church and studied the book over and over and I like it. I think that if more people applied it’s teachings to their life they would become closer to a peaceful life and the world would befit also. However, I don’t see it being something to worship and I think it should not be taken too literal. You see I am faithful and I try to be spiritual also, but I am practical. I can’t see how men, human men could write anything even Gods word without mistakes and subjecting it to their own values, beliefs, and norms. God did not write the Bible. And anything used to verify that it is God’s word comes from the Bible, which He did not write. That’s just one thing and I am not here to take a stand against it. Therefore, I rely on my spirit to lead me. My spirit does lead me to the Bible and through the Bible and helps me find things to apply to my life. I just thought I would share.

The bible is literal. Literal events with spiritual meaning behind it. 100% true.

It's good you're on the right track, but don't think for a moment that Jesus didn't walk on water, heal people, or bring people back from death. The account of creation, Noah's flood, the Red Sea crossing... Miracles are real. It's all true.

[rejoice44]

First I would like to say that I think the Bible is a good book and has a lot to offer so that no-one gets that wrong idea. I did go through a discipleship program at my church and studied the book over and over and I like it. I think that if more people applied it’s teachings to their life they would become closer to a peaceful life and the world would befit also. However, I don’t see it being something to worship and I think it should not be taken too literal. You see I am faithful and I try to be spiritual also, but I am practical. I can’t see how men, human men could write anything even Gods word without mistakes and subjecting it to their own values, beliefs, and norms. God did not write the Bible. And anything used to verify that it is God’s word comes from the Bible, which He did not write. That’s just one thing and I am not here to take a stand against it. Therefore, I rely on my spirit to lead me. My spirit does lead me to the Bible and through the Bible and helps me find things to apply to my life. I just thought I would share.

It is not possible that the Bible is not the word of God. It is so interwoven with so many different writers who wrote things they couldn't have possible understood, or known that how what they wrote would be so interwoven with other writers. No, man is not the author of the Bible, but they are the writers. We sometimes disagree on one translation from another, but they all say the same thing. The more the Bible is studied, the more beautiful it becomes. You can never exhaust it like the books men author.

I know the Bible is God's word, and only God can give you that inter-knowledge, and peace that passes understanding.

May God bless you.

[Withoutfcf]

So... Sixty Six books and about 40 writers living at different places and different environments over a span of 16 hundred years with no contradictions.
The fact that the bible went through the hands of humans and doesn't have Contradictions should be proof enough of its divinity.

If this wasn't guided by the hand of God I guarantee that it wouldn't of made it this far.. Nor would it be without flaw.

Through trial and Error and a lot of separate translations.. People have had false doctrine arise but that doesn't change that the Bible itself hasn't changed.
Only peoples understandings on certain Scriptures.

I definitely do not take every event in the bible to be literal.. A lot of it is not suppose to be taken literal.. a lot of it are poetry, stories, prophesies, Proverbs, etc.

If you have come to the conclusion that there is a Creator.. then its time to ask yourself deeper questions based on the creator.
I came to the conclusion that the Creator must be Benevolent. Which lead me to The bible over everything else.

Its time for you to search it all to find the truth for yourself.

[1david]

Well you guys weren’t too hard on me. I think most people would argue the same points heard here, some more than others. I won’t try and pick apart the Bible to prove anything one way or the other. I am at peace. If your faith is in the book or in the spirit, bless you. Thank you for the feedback.

[Walls]

First I would like to say that I think the Bible is a good book and has a lot to offer so that no-one gets that wrong idea. I did go through a discipleship program at my church and studied the book over and over and I like it. I think that if more people applied it’s teachings to their life they would become closer to a peaceful life and the world would befit also. However, I don’t see it being something to worship and I think it should not be taken too literal. You see I am faithful and I try to be spiritual also, but I am practical. I can’t see how men, human men could write anything even Gods word without mistakes and subjecting it to their own values, beliefs, and norms. God did not write the Bible. And anything used to verify that it is God’s word comes from the Bible, which He did not write. That’s just one thing and I am not here to take a stand against it. Therefore, I rely on my spirit to lead me. My spirit does lead me to the Bible and through the Bible and helps me find things to apply to my life. I just thought I would share.

You have some good points and some that can be disputed.

• We should not worship the bible. I was once in a Church that made the Church more important than Christ. Only the Person of God should be worshiped.
• It is true that each of the authors of the bible had their styles. When God inspired men to write He did not clone them. Paul's education can be seen in his writings while Peter the fisherman shows his background. Luke was a doctor so his writings display another type of education.

However,

• If the God you worship claims to be Almighty, and yet you doubt that He has produced a Book without mistakes, your claim to an Almighty God collapses. And if He is not Almighty, why believe ALL the rest. Let us give up the thought of God who could create over 2 billion galaxies out of nothing. Let us worship rather the intellect of men. It is at least tangible.
• I would seriously not trust my spirit.

Paul, who had written numerous books saying that the Law was over and did not apply to the Church, "purposed in HIS spirit to go down to Jerusalem" (Act.19:21). But from two different reliable sources he was warned by the Holy Spirit not to go.

In Acts 21:4, Paul is in Tyre and the following is recorded; "And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem."

Then, later at Caesarea; "And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. 9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. 10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus. 11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles. 12 And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem" (Acts.21:8-12).

Now consider this. It was Paul who wrote to the Corinthians before to tell them:

• Everything must be established by two witnesses (2nd Cor.13:1)
• One must prophesy and the others must test (1st Cor.14:29)

And Paul knew from his studies of scripture that;

• A prophet is to be discounted if his prophecies do not come true precisely (Deut.18:22)

So Paul, in Tyre, received a warning from brothers (plural) who did not know him. Then, soon after he receives a warning in Caesarea. This warning was by Agabus who had correctly predicted a worldwide famine (Act.11:28). And this Agabus was in the company of 4 other prophetesses who were the daughters of an evangelist who was one of seven evangelists. So not only was Agabus an accredited prophet, but he was in front of 4 other people who could test him. So his prophecy concerning Paul was almost 100% - AND PAUL LISTENED TO THE PURPOSE OF HIS SPIRIT.

Needless to say, it was the end of Paul's traveling ministry. He was arrested, put in captivity and eventually shipped to Rome. His days of raising up Churches were over.

The way I approach the bible is;

• That God, who can create two billion galaxies out of nothing, can easily make men do what He wants
• That God, Who is Almighty, can easily take care that His book reaches men in the condition He wants
• That while the Bible is just so much paper and ink, and not to be revered as such, it contains God's written Words, which, when spoken out loud become a living thing to nourish us and inform us of divine matters

"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do" (Heb.4:11-13).

[andrew_no_one]

Sola scriptura!!!!!
That's all I've got

[Scooby_Snacks]

Well you guys weren’t too hard on me. I think most people would argue the same points heard here, some more than others. I won’t try and pick apart the Bible to prove anything one way or the other. I am at peace. If your faith is in the book or in the spirit, bless you. Thank you for the feedback.

Because you say that you are a Christian on your profile, I have a question.
How did you come to believe in Christ, without hearing the Gospel (contained throught the Bible) and come to believe that the Gosepl is the Truth, if the Gospel was not written by God, but by man?
I personally look to Christ(Who according to the Bible is The Word) the author and finisher of my faith, not to a book or my own spirit, as He is my redeemer.


Maybe if you shared your testimony, how you came to believe...? I want to understand more about your point of view.

[andrew_no_one]

Without the Word of God we start coming up with all sorts of crazy "theological" ideas.

[1david]

Thank you again for all the feedback. It seems that everyone has their own ideas. Some people are arguing points I didn't bring up and others making good points. I still think that relying on His spirit, which I claim when I say my spirit is the way to go. If the Lord guides you then how could you go wrong? I enjoyed reading Walls post. Andrew made a point about where we would be without the Bible. I agree. We do need it. Nevertheless, necessity doesn’t change how I feel about it. I do read the Bible and I count on my spirit to help me understand it and apply it to my life. I think some of you thought I said that I don’t believe anything in the Bible and that it is not Gods word at all. I did not say that. I guess it’s like telling bikers they should wear helmets. You are going to get arguments. Count on The Lord and you can’t go wrong. I just think more emphases should go to trusting The Lord.

[Scooby_Snacks]

Hi 1david,

The reason I asked what I did, may have been because of what you shared here:

And anything used to verify that it is God’s word comes from the Bible, which He did not write.

Ill wait and see what else you share to clarify...Like I said, I want to understand.

[TrustGzus]

David,

Peter was one of the few people who actually physically walked with Jesus. Peter wrote . . .

2 Peter 1:20–21 (NIV)
20*Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21*For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

What do you think of what Peter wrote here?

Also, you did say that you believe the Bible is inspired. Now 2 Timothy 3:16 says all scripture is inspired. But the English word inspired is a translation of the Greek word θεόπνευστος. It's a compound word that is literally "God-breathed".

So the NIV very accurate when it has . . .

2 Timothy 3:16 (NIV)
16*All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

What are your thoughts about that? When you use the word inspired you seem to have a much lesser of a concept than Paul was expressing.

You might say I'm using the Bible to prove the Bible. I'd say I'm using the words of two witnesses, Peter and Paul, who are speaking about the writings of others.

Do remember, the Bible wasn't always under one binding at your local bookstore. It is 66 different writings by approximately 40 different authors. So when Peter writes what he writes, it's not the Bible self-authenticating itself, rather it is an apostle authenticating former prophets whose books weren't all available in one codex at the local bookstore when he wrote what he wrote. It's not one book self-authenticating. It's 40 different witnesses authenticating. It's quite an interesting case.

Grace & peace to you,

Joe

[1david]

I really don't know how I could be more clear. Let me tell you this; I count on the guidance of my heavenly father. He did not lead me to believe that everything in the Bible and everyone’s interpretations of the Bible are correct. I don’t waste my faith on disputing these things. All of the arguments would not do my Lord justice. Here’s something I haven’t heard from any of you. If your God told you that everything in your Bible is true and correct then so be it. That is not what I hear. I hear that the Bible says it's true. Let God lead you.

[Ceegen]

I really don't know how I could be more clear. Let me tell you this; I count on the guidance of my heavenly father. He did not lead me to believe that everything in the Bible and everyone’s interpretations of the Bible are correct. I don’t waste my faith on disputing these things. All of the arguments would not do my Lord justice. Here’s something I haven’t heard from any of you. If your God told you that everything in your Bible is true and correct then so be it. That is not what I hear. I hear that the Bible says it true. Let God lead you.

Hold on just a second, don't just blindly follow a spiritual influence. Yes it has put you on the right path, but we are still supposed to study the scriptures. The scriptures say we must test every spirit, because not every spirit that is gone out into the world is working for God. Satan took 1/3 of the host of heaven with him, and even satan masqerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), and so satan's followers also mimic things we generally accept as being "good".

1 John 4:
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Always study the bible, it is good for sound doctrine and reproof. Stay on that path, no matter how bumpy it seems to get. But how do you know you're on the right path?

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." - James 1:5.

You, as a Christian, have both a responsibility to self, and duty to God to ask Him for answers to your questions. And you know what? You're in the perfect place for it, right here on this forum. So please stay and discuss whatever questions or things you might have. Consider this forum a... Virtual church. Maybe God led you here, so He could get a message through to you, that you need to read more of the bible? Or maybe even re-read certain spots? Everyone has done it, we miss things all the time. but don't get discouraged, or worse, make something up to fit in where our own understanding can't compensate for the answer or non-answer that is provided.