What Commandments Are We To Keep To Receive The Holy Ghost?

[poorinspirit]

It simply ignorance to say "Martin Luther did not finish pruning the words like sacrament and Eucharist of the works of catholicism so that faith in Jesus Christ can be clearly seen".

What do you think the Reformation was about ?

When Martin Luther posted his thesis on the door, it was for someone to debate him and reprove him if need be. Instead, he became some pinnacle of truth as if he got it all right. Not so. Martin Luther was seeing the reproofs towards catholicism, but the call for reformation was to assist him in that reproof and further reproving it. It did not do that. They just fell behind him.

How can you read what i posted and reply with this comment ?

second thoughts...why bother.

It is better to turn to scripture for our reproofs rather than famous men in history. Believers start identifying themnselves with Calvin and the like, but yet...

1 Corinthians 3:1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.....21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Sometimes, loyalty in defending a fellow famous believer is misplaced just as loyalty can interfere when defending the identity of the church in reproving any works of darkness within. God addresses each church in Revelation to examine themselves and prepare themselves: five had warnings of dire consequences whereas two were given promises if they continue to hold fast. No church nor believer can avoid the call from God to prepare themselves accordingly as we see that day approaching all the more.

Martin Luther would not be offended if the Lutheran church heeded his call to reform further what God has started by way of the Son through the Holy Spirit within him.

Nowadays, the congregation line up behind the pastor as if he is representing the church. There are other offices in serving the edification of the body of Christ and not just bishops (elders) and deacons.

I have seen how sacrament has taken on a more religious Catholic definition in the Presbyterian churches: there is a sacrament of the bread and the wine: the sacrament of marriage: the sacrament of water baptism: and even the sacrament of infant baptism. Yep. I read that in the recent bulletin of my fomrer church that my folks still go to.

I have read that Lutheran leaders in the British Isles have stated that it was a mistake to leave the RCC.

All I am seeing is how that small leaven can leaven into a whole lump and thus the necessity to prune further what Martin Luther had started by the grace of God and His help as he started the whole reformation to call others to debate the issues by the scripture to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, but instead, they lined up behind him as if he had done the whole merit of that reformation already.

Anyway: what you see as my ignorance, is my cause to restate the call for reformation. Just as any believer can go to the wayside, so can a church. It wouldn't hurt to go back to the beginning and prove all things with His help and by His grace since keeping the faith is the good fight as we are all identified as children of God by faith in Jesus Christ; & not by a church.

[BroRog]

Not sure why you were using the analogy of Peter in selling the gospel.

I'm attacking a hidden assumption Christians often make, which isn't true. Your claim that God is making a conditional promise is the typical interpretation of this passage. So I am not being critical of you personally. But for whatever reason, Christians are confused about the true nature of things and it takes analogies like the one I gave to highlight the truth, which is that a conditional promise is nothing more than a "contract", which is an agreement two parties make in exchange for compensation. Christians mistakenly believe that Peter was talking about a conditional promise, apparently not realizing the implications of their mistake.

The Biblical picture is NOT that God is offering us a conditional promise, i.e. a contract for the delivery of salvation upon receipt of belief (in other words, compensation) Rather, the Biblical picture is that God's salvation is a free and unmerited gift, given to those whom he choses to bless according to his kindness.

We are so accustomed to being marketed that we accept this as being normal. The common offer we see is when an advertiser offers us a "free gift" for trying their product. We have been trained by this world system to think of free gifts as compensation for something. We hear the words "free" and "gift" but we all know that the compensation isn't actually "free" and neither is it a "gift."

"Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

We read that and we go, "I know what that is. I have heard it before on TV. Peter wants me to repent, which is something I wouldn't normally do anyway, in exchange for a "free gift", which we all know isn't actually free."

Most Christians reading this would probably say, "You're being ridiculous; You're just being stupid for some reason. Of course salvation is a free gift and it really is free and unmerited. We aren't saying otherwise." But you are. If you think that Peter is offering a conditional promise, you are holding two contradictory ideas in your head at the same time, which is a skill many human beings have learned. But such contradictory ideas shouldn't be allowed to exist side by side.

[poorinspirit]

I'm attacking a hidden assumption Christians often make, which isn't true. Your claim that God is making a conditional promise is the typical interpretation of this passage. So I am not being critical of you personally. But for whatever reason, Christians are confused about the true nature of things and it takes analogies like the one I gave to highlight the truth, which is that a conditional promise is nothing more than a "contract", which is an agreement two parties make in exchange for compensation. Christians mistakenly believe that Peter was talking about a conditional promise, apparently not realizing the implications of their mistake.

The Biblical picture is NOT that God is offering us a conditional promise, i.e. a contract for the delivery of salvation upon receipt of belief (in other words, compensation) Rather, the Biblical picture is that God's salvation is a free and unmerited gift, given to those whom he choses to bless according to his kindness.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

We are so accustomed to being marketed that we accept this as being normal. The common offer we see is when an advertiser offers us a "free gift" for trying their product. We have been trained by this world system to think of free gifts as compensation for something. We hear the words "free" and "gift" but we all know that the compensation isn't actually "free" and neither is it a "gift."

"Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

We read that and we go, "I know what that is. I have heard it before on TV. Peter wants me to repent, which is something I wouldn't normally do anyway, in exchange for a "free gift", which we all know isn't actually free."

Most Christians reading this would probably say, "You're being ridiculous; You're just being stupid for some reason. Of course salvation is a free gift and it really is free and unmerited. We aren't saying otherwise." But you are. If you think that Peter is offering a conditional promise, you are holding two contradictory ideas in your head at the same time, which is a skill many human beings have learned. But such contradictory ideas shouldn't be allowed to exist side by side.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

The fact that a believer believes is a work of God Himself.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So the OP addressing those that look to themselves to do all the commandments that Jesus had taught to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit are looking at the teachings of Jesus Christ in a religious sense and not believing in Jesus Christ in a relationship based on trusting God at His Word for when one enters into the New Covenant.

Since having been saved, we are to live that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ by getting to know Him and His promises to us so we can live by faith in the Son of God as His disciples in abiding in His words as we walk through this valley of death so that we may be fruitful and our joy may be full and not lose our full reward of attending the Marriage Supper as a vessel unto honour in His House.

Those saved but not wishing to run that race, sowing to the flesh in reaping corruption or having the cares of this life becaomes as a snare as to take them unaware or engagaing in dead works that deny Him can be foolish in building on that foundation that will result in them being left behind to be destroyed as the vessel unto dishonour in His House, BUT even then as vessels unto dishonour in His House, they are tstifying to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe as having been bought with a price and sealed as His wherein the prodigal son in losing his inheritance will find that he is still son.

So the free gift of salvation is the same: what they do with that gift after having been reconciled with God through Jesus Christ is how God will judge every child He receives, but they are still His children.

[Noeb]

John 14:¹⁵ If ye love me, keep my commandments. ¹⁶ And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; ¹⁷ Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The commandments cannot be everything Jesus has taught becaise we need Him in us to have power to be the sons of God in living the christian life by faith in the Son of God.

So what commandments is Jesus talking about that by keeping them, we would receive the promise of the Holy Ghost? For something this important, you would think Jesus would list them clearly in leading up to that promise of the receiving of the permenant indwelling Holy Ghost.

So lets' read what was stated as the commandments from Him.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. ² In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ³ And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. ⁴ And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. ⁵ Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? ⁶ Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ⁷ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. ⁸ Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. ⁹ Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? ¹⁰ Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. ¹¹ Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. ¹² Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. ¹³ And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. ¹⁴ If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Believe? Just believe Him to be God, and that He is the only way to God and to know God personally?

Ephesians 1:¹² That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. ¹³ In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, ¹⁴ Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. ¹⁵ Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Yep. Just believe Him. That's the commandments that He was referring to when He stated over and over again to believe Him that led up to the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost.

Galatians 3:¹⁴ That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith....²⁶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

That's why His yoke is easy and His burden is light wherein we can find rest for our souls in Him.

Matthew 11:²⁸ Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. ²⁹ Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. ³⁰ For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Having believed in Him is the response of a good conscience towards God in having received the Holy Spirit to be saved. Since then, when we live by faith in the Son of God in living this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ, we get to know Him and the power of His resurrection when we see ourselves following Him in what we think we could not do in the flesh, to love our enemies as we love others as He is supplying us with the love we need with guidance to forgive when we are angry.

1 John 3:²² And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. ²³ And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. ²⁴ And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

So the commandments to receive the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit is to believe in Jesus Christ: and because He is in us, we have power to live as sons of God by faith in the Son of God to love others to abide in Him in bearing fruit so that our joy may be full.

This is about the disciples, not you, or us after. Jesus was going away and they had a trying, life threatening, time ahead. He reassured them he would come to them and told them his purpose he had trained them for was still a go. That his going away didn't change anything for the worse, but in fact ensured his purpose for them. They would finish what he started, if they remained in him, and didn't walk away from him and all he had taught them. If they didn't remain in him, they would not be finishing what he started. If they (the disciples) remained in the true vine and not the fruitless vine Israel, they'd bear fruit, because they'd be empowered from on high. It's about them, not you, or us. But, because you have made it about us, you have created a condition that scripture does not teach. People believed the gospel for the first time and received the Spirit immediately then, and it still happens today. Without condition after conversion.

[Boo]

Here God kept His promise before Peter told them about that promise of the Holy Ghost for all those that believe. So Peter was just sharing a promise from God in Acts 2:37-39, but if he had not when they had believed and be baptized in His name, they would have received the promise anyway because the condition of that promise was to believe in Him as Our Saviour.

Now you are changing what Peter said. You claim that there was no purpose to what he said and that his statement is misleading. You are saying that Peter did not need to tell them to be baptized because they would receive the Holy Spirit anyway.

Now, why would Peter do that?

[poorinspirit]

This is about the disciples, not you, or us after.

The promise of the Holy Spirit that Jesus was talking about rested on believing on Him in being God for all that He was saying from verse 1 to verse 14 which He commanded them to do.

The fact that Ephesians 1:12-15 & Galatians 3:14,26 as written to the churches as He led Paul to do proves that this promise of the Holy Ghost was given also to any that believe in John 14:6-7.

Jesus was going away and they had a trying, life threatening, time ahead. He reassured them he would come to them and told them his purpose he had trained them for was still a go. That his going away didn't change anything for the worse, but in fact ensured his purpose for them. They would finish what he started, if they remained in him, and didn't walk away from him and all he had taught them. If they didn't remain in him, they would not be finishing what he started. If they (the disciples) remained in the true vine and not the fruitless vine Israel, they'd bear fruit, because they'd be empowered from on high. It's about them, not you, or us.

Again: the promise of the permament indwelling Holy Spirit does apply to us and even though He did referenced that He would appear to them personally after the resurrection, He was still referring to that promise as being given to all those that believe in Him.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

From this point on, readers may interpret verse 20 as referring to when He visits them again like in the upper room twice, but it refers to "in that day" from which verse 20 takes on a whole different application because it resides on when He was not with them.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Although Jesus speaks again personally to the disciples, His words of comfort applies to us as well and the fact that He has risen and ascended to the right hand of God the Father is the belief we share as this happenstance is why we believe, makes this perosnal for us as well as we share in the comforts of that same belief.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

But, because you have made it about us, you have created a condition that scripture does not teach. People believed the gospel for the first time and received the Spirit immediately then, and it still happens today. Without condition after conversion.

I do not understand why you seem to think why I was teaching conditions after belief in order to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost to be saved. I was deferring the commandments of believing in Him to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit from all of the other commandments that He had taught which pretty much sums up to loving others as part of the call of discipleship which is to say to abide in Him so that we may bear fruit and that our joy may be full. The call to abide in His words to be His disciples is not about salvation, but what saved believers are to do now that they do have that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ so that they may bear fruit and that their joy may be full and not lose their full reward which is to attend the Marriage Supper.

[poorinspirit]

Now you are changing what Peter said.

No. I am just saying what God has promised for all those that believe.

You claim that there was no purpose to what he said and that his statement is misleading.

No. I was referring to how His promise is given that just as Peter spoke those words in Acts 10:34-48 without mentioning the Holy Spirit and yet the Gentiles had received the promise anyway just by believing in Him, shows that IF Peter had not mentioned the promise of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2, they would have received Him anyway as God promised.

You are saying that Peter did not need to tell them to be baptized because they would receive the Holy Spirit anyway.

No. Not quite what I said either. I was just emphasizing why God would give the promise. Peter said what he did. There is nothing wrong with what he had said.

Now, why would Peter do that?

Do note how Peter had said that which was also inclusive to the whole world and not just the Jews.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

One could argue that point by saying Peter was referring to the Jews that were afar off, but "even as many as the Lord our God shall call" is inclusive of the world.

So if you are referring to Peter's call for water baptism in His name to receive the Holy Spirit, you have to look at the Gentiles whom had received Him before water baptism and before they even came forward to confess Him with their mouths.

The Jews were identifed as His in according to the Old Covenant so they were in the midst of the nation of Israel when the Temple was still standing in Jerusalem that a more public confession was needed for them to apply that faith in Jesus Christ firmly to remoe all doubts publicly that they were now turning their back on the Old Covenant and entering the New Covenant by believing in Jesus Christ. This is acknowledging that the God of the Old Covenant is the same God of the New by doing so.

Gentiles had not represented God to the world that it needed a public display of their belief in Jesus Christ to receive the promise. To illustrate the call to as many as God shall give that call further....we need to look at John the Baptist.

John the Baptist was sent to prepare the way of the Lord: He did that by preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark 1:4John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Then Peter said that it was by baptizing in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost.

Then the same Peter said this to the Gentiles on how they can receive the remission of sin:

Acts 10: 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

So that is how John the Baptist's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sin prepared the way of the Lord for eventually all people that will believe, so that believing in Him shall receive remission of sins wherein God gives the promise of the Spirit to both Jews and Gentiles believers. The fact that Jesus stated to Nicodemus how one is born again just by believing is proof that this was the intended message of the gospel.

John 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[Noeb]

The promise of the Holy Spirit that Jesus was talking about rested on believing on Him in being God for all that He was saying from verse 1 to verse 14 which He commanded them to do.

The fact that Ephesians 1:12-15 & Galatians 3:14,26 as written to the churches as He led Paul to do proves that this promise of the Holy Ghost was given also to any that believe in John 14:6-7.

Again: the promise of the permament indwelling Holy Spirit does apply to us and even though He did referenced that He would appear to them personally after the resurrection, He was still referring to that promise as being given to all those that believe in Him.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

From this point on, readers may interpret verse 20 as referring to when He visits them again like in the upper room twice, but it refers to "in that day" from which verse 20 takes on a whole different application because it resides on when He was not with them.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Although Jesus speaks again personally to the disciples, His words of comfort applies to us as well and the fact that He has risen and ascended to the right hand of God the Father is the belief we share as this happenstance is why we believe, makes this perosnal for us as well as we share in the comforts of that same belief.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

It's a given taught throughout scripture. However it is not one of the commandments. Read vs 15-24 then go read 1John. Love. But 1John, written to believers that have the unction and need no one to teach them, aren't given the same condition the disciples were in John 14-15, because John 14-15 are not for or about us.

I do not understand why you seem to think why I was teaching conditions after belief in order to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost to be saved. I was deferring the commandments of believing in Him to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit

Where is that at? Where is that taught?

abide in Him so that we may bear fruit

He told the disciples to abide in him while he was away. He called them friends. He chose them to be the twelve. He's not talking to you.

The call to abide in His words to be His disciples is not about salvation, but what saved believers are to do now that they do have that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ so that they may bear fruit and that their joy may be full and not lose their full reward which is to attend the Marriage Supper.

Certainly we are to remain in Christ. Stay in the faith -Christianity. In doing so we will bear fruit. You can find this all over the rest of the NT. There are principles in John 14-15 that we find elsewhere so we know they apply to us. Confirmation. But I don't see a commandment for us to continue to believe in him in order to receive the Spirit.

[poorinspirit]

It's a given taught throughout scripture. However it is not one of the commandments.

Yes, it is. For stating such commandments to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit without telling us what those commandments are within that context in giving that promise would be negligent on His part, but He wasn't. Believe is the repeated commandment over and over again centering around 14:1,6-7.

Read vs 15-24 then go read 1John. Love.

1 John 4:19We love him, because he first loved us.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, ........

We need Him in us first in order for us to have power as sons of God to love others as He would want us to do.

But 1John, written to believers that have the unction and need no one to teach them, aren't given the same condition the disciples were in John 14-15, because John 14-15 are not for or about us.

They are for us because in John 15th chapter is how a believer is defined as His disciples which is by abiding in His words whereas John 14th chapter is how one receives the promise of the permanant indwelling Holy Ghost which is not restricted to His disciples when that promise has not been given yet for He was still with them. The condition for believing in Him was the repeated commandments to receive the promise.

Where is that at? Where is that taught?

When Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus about being born again in John 3rd chapter. Most readers leaves off at verse 8 as most sermons and lessons do, but Nicodemus asked how one can be born again in this manner:

John 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Of which readers should have continued as Jesus did in answering Nicodemus how one is born again.

John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

He told the disciples to abide in him while he was away. He called them friends. He chose them to be the twelve. He's not talking to you.

Then read why they were called friends.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

The condition stated with an "if" is a promise given to all and not just His disciples that He was speaking to.

Certainly we are to remain in Christ. Stay in the faith -Christianity. In doing so we will bear fruit. You can find this all over the rest of the NT. There are principles in John 14-15 that we find elsewhere so we know they apply to us. Confirmation. But I don't see a commandment for us to continue to believe in him in order to receive the Spirit.

Clarity is needed: one does not need to "continue" to believe in him in order for a believer to receive the Spirit since the receiving of the promise is not a continuous event in the life of a believer. It is whenever anyone has believed in Him, at that moment when a believer believed for the first time, they have received the promise of the Holy Spirit, and thus He will abide in us forever.

It is possible for a believer to err from the truth, have their faith overthrown and not believe in Him anymore, but this is a faithful saying.... as He can never leave us after having been bought with a price.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

Of course, the faithful as led by the Lord are to seek to minister to those that have gone astray:

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

In the hopes that they may depart from iniquity to be that vessel unto honour in His House.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.......15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

That is the high prize of our calling for running that race by looking to the author and finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight and sin to receive our full reward to be that vessel unto honour in His House and thus allowed to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb which mirrors fellowship which is done in sincerity and in truth in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter whereas we are to excommunicate any nonrepentant brother or sister as we are not to eat with them. As God led Paul to teach this, so will He do when He comes to judge His House that has to happen first at the pre tribulational rapture event before He comes back with the raptured saints to judge the world and recover the lost wayard sheep that were not found abiding in Him as the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living will find that he is still son.

So those saints left behind in coming out of the great tribulation shall be destroyed ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 & Hebrews 12th chapter) in becoming that vessel unto dishonour in His House as they will testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe... even in His name.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[poorinspirit]

I can think of no other way. A realistic means of salvation available to all who hear the message.

Amen. It is also good to read how God gives His promise for all those that believe in Him even before before coming forward to be baptized in His name, and even before confessing Him with their mouths.

Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

[BroRog]

So the OP addressing those that look to themselves to do all the commandments that Jesus had taught to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit are looking at the teachings of Jesus Christ in a religious sense and not believing in Jesus Christ in a relationship based on trusting God at His Word for when one enters into the New Covenant.

I'm not sure what you were thinking when you clicked on the "reply with quote" button, but apparently you had a lot to say, not necessarily in response to anything that I said. In the future, I would like it if you would click on the "reply" button, not the "reply with quote" button, unless you want to dialog with me specifically.

FYI, If I understand the common abbreviations we use around here the abbreviation "OP" stands for "original post", or "original poster". This being the case, one would expect the singular verb "is" not the plural verb "are" in a comment about the original post. I'm not taking you to grammar school. But since your subject didn;t seem to match your verb in number, I couldn't help wondering what you meant by "So the OP . . . are looking at the teachings of Jesus . . ." Was your focus on the original poster or others who might be looking at the teachings of Jesus?

[Noeb]

The condition for believing in Him was the repeated commandments to receive the promise.

Who believes anyone can receive the Spirit in unbelief? No one, so I guess I don't understand the point of anything in this thread at all.

[poorinspirit]

I'm not sure what you were thinking when you clicked on the "reply with quote" button, but apparently you had a lot to say, not necessarily in response to anything that I said.

None that you perceive. Kind of like two ships passing in the night I reckon. I see you though, but for some reason, you are not seeing me.

In the future, I would like it if you would click on the "reply" button, not the "reply with quote" button, unless you want to dialog with me specifically.

Can't guarantee that. I reckon you are going to have to bear the fruit of long-suffering and patience then.

FYI, If I understand the common abbreviations we use around here the abbreviation "OP" stands for "original post", or "original poster". This being the case, one would expect the singular verb "is" not the plural verb "are" in a comment about the original post. I'm not taking you to grammar school. But since your subject didn;t seem to match your verb in number, I couldn't help wondering what you meant by "So the OP . . . are looking at the teachings of Jesus . . ." Was your focus on the original poster or others who might be looking at the teachings of Jesus?

It is "others who might be looking at the teachings of Jesus".

So the OP addressing those that look to themselves to do all the commandments that Jesus had taught to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit are looking at the teachings of Jesus Christ in a religious sense and not believing in Jesus Christ in a relationship based on trusting God at His Word for when one enters into the New Covenant.

I should have placed "is" in "So the OP is addressing..." Sorry. That human factor for being at the computer too long.

[poorinspirit]

Originally Posted by poorinspirit

The condition for believing in Him was the repeated commandments to receive the promise.

Who believes anyone can receive the Spirit in unbelief? No one, so I guess I don't understand the point of anything in this thread at all.

I am not sure how you got that from the quote from my post that you had responded to.

Unless you are asking about why anyone would think otherwise about how one can receive the promise of the Holy Spirit.

If that is the question: then know that some errant believers has taken John 14:15 out of context as applying to every commandment that Jesus has given, without considering the fact that the keeping of such commandments in verse 15 is referring specifically to the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Spirit.

So the commandments in verse 15 cannot be everything Jesus has taught because we need Him in us to live the christian life.

Thus believers need to discern what commandments Jesus is talking about in verse 15 as coming with the promise of the Holy Ghost and that is by reading the previous verses before verse 15 to find them. The repeated commandments to believe Him are the commandments Jesus was talking about that a person is to keep in order to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost.

Scriptures elsewhere verifies that testimony that whenever anyone believes in Him, they had received the promise of teh Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:14,26 & Ephesians 1:12-15

May God cause the increase & thanks to God for giving you patience in reading this thread.

[Noeb]

Someone hears the gospel, believes in him and are born again.....do they need to believe anything to receive what they already have? No! I have no idea how anyone could justify they do. I also have no idea how anyone could justify thinking it's every commandment Jesus has given. How is that even possible? The commandment to believe is not what "a person is to keep in order to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost". No scripture teaches that. To continue to believe, despite Jesus' going away, is what the disciples were to do, while Jesus was away, in order to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost. That's not applicable post Pentecost. It's just not. That's how it is. What you say Galatians and Ephesians teaches cannot parallel John 14-15. They are apples and oranges.