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Thread: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

  1. #16

    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Fleshly man takes on the likeness and Image of Adam this should not even be debatable.
    It must be debated because we are not created in the image of Adam, but in the image of God....through Adam and through our parents but ultimately in God's image.


    Bingo......God's physical image????? It is the opposite. Adam's physical image, God's moral image spiritually.


    Nope. Man has always, always shown he does NOT have the moral image of God spiritually. Man is wicked, God is not. Man needs to be saved and forgiven, God does not.

    What is more accurate would be, "God's physical image, Adam's moral image spiritually"

    You had it backwards!!





    The birthing process is not a creation.
    Irrelevant.

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    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Many many people have seen God.
    1jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time.

    Uh.....no. That's the poorest example of logic I've seen in a LONG time. God started the process of man being created in his image and through the reproductive process God has continued to make sure that all men and women are created/born with his general physical image.
    Scripture says creation has been completed by the first week. There has been no more creation since. Reproduction is not creation.

    Ge 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    Ge 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

    Sin is never, ever "handed down" from anyone to anyone else.
    Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    1co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    1co 15:22 For as in Adam all die,

    Where do you get your info???

    So in Genesis 1 you think the people created are not humans?
    That is correct. This is spiritual man. Are not spirits created too???


    Of course I do but it's off topic and has no relevancy to this topic.
    Try me.....

  3. #18
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    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Nope. Man has always, always shown he does NOT have the moral image of God spiritually. Man is wicked, God is not. Man needs to be saved and forgiven, God does not.
    Correct, fleshly man cannot have the image of God then can he!!!! You have proven yourself.

    If man has the "likeness and Image of God you say it would only be the physical part...then he is not in the likeness and image of God because this to be true would be morally. Scripture does not say only physical, you say it is so.

  4. #19

    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    1jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time.
    Understood God fully. God has been seen:

    Exo 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
    Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
    Exo 24:11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.





    Scripture says creation has been completed by the first week. There has been no more creation since.
    Incorrect. God created Jacob.

    Isa_43:1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

    Creating stopped on one day. That doesn't mean God could not and did not ever create again.





    Where do you get your info???
    I don't make it up as you appear to do.

    Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    What passes onto all men? Death or does sin pass onto all men as you claim?





    That is correct. This is spiritual man. Are not spirits created too???

    Not in those verses. What God created is human beings in Gen 1.

  5. #20

    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Correct, fleshly man cannot have the image of God then can he!!!!
    He can have the moral image of God through faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit.

    You have proven yourself.
    Thank you. I strive to do that.



    If man has the "likeness and Image of God you say it would only be the physical part...then he is not in the likeness and image of God because this to be true would be morally. Scripture does not say only physical, you say it is so.
    No, it's evident from the scriptures that the creation of man was purely physical at first. In the NT man needs to be recreated spiritually.

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    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Incorrect. God created Jacob.
    Isa_43:1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
    We see he created him AND formed him. He created him as a spiritual man before the foundation of the world and foreknew him. Also the Hebrew word for creation has many meanings either can be create from nothing or create as to form from. To understand the exact meaning is why the order of creation verses order of formation is key.

    Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    What passes onto all men? Death or does sin pass onto all men as you claim?
    So if sin is not passed unto all men then it would be possible for one not to sin nor die.....rather if death has passed unto all men then so has sin.

  7. #22
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    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    He can have the moral image of God through faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit.
    Yes he can but scriptures do not say "may"... that man WAS the image of God.

  8. #23

    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post

    We see he created him AND formed him. He created him as a spiritual man before the foundation of the world and foreknew him.
    No. Jacob was created at his conception. This proves creating did not end on day 6.




    Also the Hebrew word for creation has many meanings either can be create from nothing or create as to form from.
    Yeah I remember saying as such to you when you suggested "create" is not the same thing as "formed". How nice you now repeat it.



    To understand the exact meaning is why the order of creation verses order of formation is key.
    That sentence is clearly still in the creation process and not quite finished. Let me know when it is done.



    So if sin is not passed unto all men then it would be possible for one not to sin nor die.....

    No. Sinning is possible without having sin passed to you. Guess who is my evidence? Adam and Eve did not have sin passed to them YET YET YET YET they sinned didn't they Ross?

    rather if death has passed unto all men then so has sin.
    Doesn't say that does it? It says death is passed on, not sin. Not a single scripture says sin is passed on. It is a lie. It is not true. It is wicked imagination.

  9. #24

    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post

    Yes he can but scriptures do not say "may"
    I never said they do. "May" has nothing to do with anything. Focus back on the topic please.

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    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    [
    QUOTE=ewq1938;2916679]No. Jacob was created at his conception. This proves creating did not end on day 6.
    Again the birthing process is not God creating.

    No. Sinning is possible without having sin passed to you. Guess who is my evidence? Adam and Eve did not have sin passed to them YET YET YET YET they sinned didn't they Ross?
    We are speaking from Adam onward.

    It says death is passed on, not sin. Not a single scripture says sin is passed on.
    Is man born without sin, God forbid that someone has the chance to get to heaven without the need of Christ. "All have sinned" not because at one point in thier lives they chose to sin rather it is a sin nature in which they are born with.

    It is a lie. It is not true. It is wicked imagination.
    If death has been passed on to all men then by simple understanding so too has sin. For by sin comes death.

  11. #26

    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    [

    Again the birthing process is not God creating.
    Yet God says he created Jacob. Jacob is a human, created by God and born in this age.



    Is man born without sin
    Yes.



    God forbid that someone has the chance to get to heaven without the need of Christ.
    Only sinners need Christ! The sinless have nothing to fear on judgment day do they??



    "All have sinned" not because at one point in thier lives they chose to sin rather it is a sin nature in which they are born with.
    There are ALWAYS exceptions to that rule unless you think Jesus also sinned since that verse SEEMS to say ALL have sinned. Guess what, ALL have not sinned. The verse is not exact!


    If death has been passed on to all men then by simple understanding so too has sin.
    That is wrong. No scripture supports that.

    For by sin comes death.
    Common knowledge. By birth comes sin is a lie.

  12. #27
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    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    I know what I am going to share next, some or most of you will see as having no relevance to the topic or ongoing conversation in this thread.

    But, I am thinking that if I would consider the things that I list below, then the main contention so far in this present conversation would fall apart and the conversation might progress.



    We/mankind are not born sinless, nor are we born sinners...
    we are born with a DEAD spirit.
    And the reasons why I believe this, are listed below:



    God's word often(very often) speaks of mankind as vessels.

    God's word often(very often) speaks of mankind as dead. Even though our experience is that we live because our flesh lives.

    God's word often(very often) speaks of mankind as now presently having opportunity to have life, restored life, and even live life more abundantly, since Christ's work finished on a cross.



    Now, mankind was created from two parts, the dust of the earth and the breath of God, breathed into mans nostrils (indwelling Him). I am assuming that none reading objects that the Spirit breathed into mans nostrils in Genesis was the Spirit of God, what our bibles commonly call God's Holy Spirit, or the Holy Ghost.
    The Spirit/breath of God In Genesis, where God puts the dust of the earth and His breath together, creating man as a living soul. When the dust of the earth and Gods breath came together, then is when man became a living soul.

    Now, when mankind/Adam ate from the no/know-tree and fell, he did die right then and there just as God said he would, the Spirit that God breathed into the dust that God formed man from, that spirit in man died, died the moment that mankind/Adam introduced disobedience into the relationship between God and God's creations (the fall).
    I can recall just off of the cuff, many old and new testament books, verses and passages that testify that we are walking dead, because as our flesh lives, our spirit, the spirit that God breathed into mankind through Adam has died and that spirit has been dead in all of mankind from that day of disobedience in Eden until Christ was born of a woman on the earth !

    That Spirit of God may have come and gone up and down Jacob's ladder and come upon men on the earth in between the fall and Pentecost, but that Spirit was dead in mankind, it no longer had life in mankind again because of disobedience being introduced, it had no life in mankind again until after Pentecost.
    With only the exception of our Lord, King and High Priest, Jesus the Christ in flesh.

    Now, by Christ's work finished, he himself resurrected has told those who followed after Him to wait for Pentecost for that same Spirit that died in mankind at Eden will be SENT back to mankind to "indwell" those who have taken the opportunity to follow, trust and obey Christ Jesus.

    The Spirit that God breathed into mankind through Adam died, it may or may not have left mankind as a dwelling place, but it died in mankind, the fact that God's Spirit no longer had life in mankind remains, that spirit died in mankind, in Eden at the foot of the no/know-tree.

    But, at the day of Pentecost the Spirit God breathed into mankind which did in the past at the foot of the no/know-tree die in mankind, just as God had said it would. That same Spirit was SENT back to "indwell" mankind again and reached mankind at Pentecost (born again from above) bringing life back into who soever will, at the feet of Christ, at His feet that Spirit can live in mankind again !

    So, that is what I see: We/mankind are not born sinless, nor are we born sinners... we are born with a DEAD spirit.



    God bless.
    John 4:1 Worship in Spirit.
    Last edited by ContractKeeper; Nov 18th 2012 at 03:36 PM. Reason: emphasis/emote

  13. #28

    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh
    If this is True, then why does it say of Jesus whom the believer shall be conformed into His Image Eom 8:29-30

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    And Jesus pointed out after His Resurrection this Lk 24:39

    Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Now, was Jesus in the Image of God when He said this ?

  14. #29
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    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    All men are begat in the likeness of Adam not God. Gen 5.
    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    Oops! I misread this part. Sooooo, I don't agree that scripture supports all of the OP. Just because Adam fell does not change his image or his constitution.
    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Has nothing to do with the fall....... not sure your reasoning here could you explain
    Adam was created in God's image, in His likeness. God's declaration is that all reproduce after their kind. We are God's kind because we are made in His likeness...which is more than the physical. Just as God is triune, so are people. He created us to be His family. Our fellowship with Him is spiritual, because Spirit gives birth to spirit. He is Spirit; consequently, so also are we spirit.

    Before He blew the spirit into Adam, Adam was nothing but formed dirt. The combination of formed dirt and a spirit yielded a third thing--a living soul. Just as our spirits have faculties (intuition, conscience, communion) and our bodies have faculties (5 physical senses), so also does the combination of the two (intellect, volition, feelings/desires.) God's design is that the spirit instruct the invisible faculties of the combination (the living soul), and that the soul instruct the body. Adam bypassed that design when he obeyed the instruction of his mind, will, and emotions over the spiritual command of God; consequently, he lost the joint participation with God and became separated...no longer a spiritual (spirit-ruled) man, but a fleshly (soulish, or soul-ruled) man.

    Was Adam still created in God's image? Yes. Consequently, he procreated after God's image, even though he, and all his descendants were separated from their Creator. The separation/fall didn't change the image--spirit, soul, body. It just changed the relationship.

    blessings,

    W
    Sunset remembers Eden...sunrise prophesies its return.

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    Re: Created in God's image is in spirit not flesh

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    Adam was created in God's image, in His likeness.
    Which Adam?

    Ge 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    Note BOTH male and female are called Adam in the day they were CREATED in his his image.

    The first fleshly female was called Eve, so Gen 5:2 must be speaking of spiritual man (mankind / ie the host of heaven).


    God's declaration is that all reproduce after their kind. We are God's kind because we are made in His likeness..
    We are of fleshly Adam's kind as was Seth.

    Ge 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

    Just as God is triune, so are people. He created us to be His family. Our fellowship with Him is spiritual, because Spirit gives birth to spirit. He is Spirit; consequently, so also are we spirit.
    When do we become triune? At first birth or second? If we specifically say Holy Spirit as part of the triune then of course not until second which then paves the way for fellowship. The deeper question becomes are we even born with a spirit?

    Before He blew the spirit into Adam, Adam was nothing but formed dirt. The combination of formed dirt and a spirit yielded a third thing--a living soul.
    You are equating breath = spirit. The first formed dirt needed life to get started (note he was not born as a baby) so God breath life into it not necessarily a spirit. If God would have blown a spirit into Adam it could have only been the Holy Spirit not a created spirit which then would make Adam saved from minute one.

    Rather I see the flesh can survive without a spirit. Some would see a dead spirit which then would be living without one. This topic alone needs a separate thread.

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