cure-real
Page 6 of 17 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314151617 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 246

Thread: The Thief On the Cross

  1. #76

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Another quiz for all...

    Before anyone can actually possess salvation must the following absolutely, positively take place???

    Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. 1 Cor. 15:50,51

    Did Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God, the Son of Man actually receive this change??? Has anyone beside Jesus of Nazareth received this change???

    Did the water baptism of Jesus of Nazareth picture this change? Was the water baptism of Jesus a prophecy of another baptism that he had to be baptized with?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Will the thief on the cross have to receive the above???


    From the thread concerning Rom. 8:28,29 my last post in that thread.


    I agree. The gift of the Holy Spirit puts us in Christ. The Holy Spirit anoints us as heirs but not yet inheritors. The church is in a covenant relationship with Christ to become inheritors with Jesus the Christ who has inherited.

    Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Eph. 1:14 We do not become full inheritors until after the until is fulfilled.

    Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: From Matt. 20:23

    Well when is "that"? What is the completion of that baptism? I believe the answer is related to the balance of that verse; but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but for whom it is prepared of my Father. This is speaking of sitting on his right and left, in his kingdom. Verse 21

    When Jesus was answering the question of the mother of Zebedee's children concerning his kingdom, was that kingdom the same, kingdom, as Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 19:25-28 and which he spoke of as, "when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory"? That they, "also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

    Will they then have been baptized with the baptism he was baptized with by having, "followed me, in the regeneration"?

    Was death and regeneration the baptism he had been baptized with which we also will be baptized with, that is resurrection/instant change if alive at his appearing?

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
    Posts
    4,505
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Galatians 4:1-3
    King James Version (KJV)
    4*Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

    2*But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

    3*Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    In the slave pits of manmade Christianity, setting the captives free.
    Posts
    16,014

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilligence View Post
    When did the New Covenant start?
    When Jesus said "It is finished" and died.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6)
    Posts
    14,928

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by rrowell View Post
    I know where your going, and your point is pointless, Jesus made a promise to the thief that he would be with Him that day in paradise, and I believe Him. Jesus could do this without breaking his own law, because until his death his law is not in force.
    I feel certain that you are still not seeing my point. Please answer my question rather than continuing to avoid it. What is it that covered the sins of the thief on the cross? Was it not Christ's blood? Are you going to try to say that the thief on the cross did not need Christ's blood to cover his sins? Scripture is clear that the animal sacrifices did not take away sins (Heb 10), so how else are the sins of OT saints covered except by Christ's blood? Do you understand that He died for their sins as well? So, the idea of anyone being saved under the old covenant is false since animal sacrifices couldn't permanently cover anyone's sins. Everyone who has ever been saved is saved under the new covenant because only Christ's blood of then new covenant can permanently take away someone's sins.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    380

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    As I skimmed the tread I think a key point has been missed... besides obeying God what does Baptism do? From scripture we see that its the point we die and are buried in Christ and raised to walk in newness of life. Its the point we come in contact with his death... See Rom 6. Also we see its the point we get our sins forgiven. See Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16 etc...

    Acts 2:38 "And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

    Acts 22:16 "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

    So we know it washes away sins(through the blood of Christ mind you) but Christ had this ability while on earth.

    Mark 2:9-10 "Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic

    So while Christ was here he could forgive sins now that he has went back on the right hand of the Father we see Baptism is the method to do so. So he forgave the Thief on the Cross and wiped away his sins... which he could do while he was on earth.

    As its already been noted the NT didn't come into affect till after his death Heb 9... and notice as far as I am aware Christ didn't have his disciples baptizing into the Father Son and Holy Spirit until after his resurrection. Only Johns Baptism was around till after the death of Christ and being baptized into Christ started on the day of Pentecost there in Acts 2.
    Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

    I use Linux because I don't like Windows

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6)
    Posts
    14,928

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by uric3 View Post
    As I skimmed the tread I think a key point has been missed... besides obeying God what does Baptism do? From scripture we see that its the point we die and are buried in Christ and raised to walk in newness of life. Its the point we come in contact with his death... See Rom 6. Also we see its the point we get our sins forgiven. See Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16 etc...

    Acts 2:38 "And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
    I see that you are one of those who interprets "for the forgiveness of your sins" as if it means "in order to have your sins forgiven". But is that really what it means? How do you interpret the following verse:

    Matt 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

    If "for the forgiveness of your sins" means "in order to have your sins forgiven" then does "for repentance" mean "in order for you to repent"? It would have to mean that if you were consistent, right? Of course, we both know it doesn't mean that, so I'd like to know what you think it does mean.

    As its already been noted the NT didn't come into affect till after his death Heb 9... and notice as far as I am aware Christ didn't have his disciples baptizing into the Father Son and Holy Spirit until after his resurrection. Only Johns Baptism was around till after the death of Christ and being baptized into Christ started on the day of Pentecost there in Acts 2.
    Are you saying the requirements for salvation changed on the day of Pentecost then? If so, what do you think were the requirements for salvation during the time between the day Christ died and the day of Pentecost?

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Southern UK
    Posts
    558
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    I feel certain that you are still not seeing my point. Please answer my question rather than continuing to avoid it. What is it that covered the sins of the thief on the cross? Was it not Christ's blood? Are you going to try to say that the thief on the cross did not need Christ's blood to cover his sins? Scripture is clear that the animal sacrifices did not take away sins (Heb 10), so how else are the sins of OT saints covered except by Christ's blood? Do you understand that He died for their sins as well? So, the idea of anyone being saved under the old covenant is false since animal sacrifices couldn't permanently cover anyone's sins. Everyone who has ever been saved is saved under the new covenant because only Christ's blood of then new covenant can permanently take away someone's sins.
    I agree.
    Everyone from Adam onwards is saved because of the blood of the lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world. The bloody skin covering that God made for Adam indicates this. As does the sacrifice presented by Abel. This however, was not really about them getting to heaven, it was about defending them from Satan's control.

    However I want to make a deeper point about "saved" / "salvation" and "born again".
    We are each using these words when sometimes we mean different things by them.

    The thief on the cross was most certainly "born again", but I believe that he was, wait for it, .....not "saved".

    Now before anyone chews my ears off, please hear me out. The word saved comes in 3 tenses, and we tend to amalgamate them all together. So yes, in an eternal sense,the thief was certainly saved, but in the temporal sense he was certainly not saved. I seem to recall that he died shortly after speaking to Jesus!

    The watchers at the cross who railed and mocked Jesus made their understanding of the word "saved" abundantly clear. I believe that this shows the primary meaning of the word at the time of Jesus, ie. the same as it was before.

    Matt27v42 "He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him."
    In this usage, they were not referring to whether Jesus would go to heaven or not, they were talking about him coming down from the cross.

    The Old Testament use of the word salvation or saved was never about heaven when they died, it was about deliverance from Philistine, famine, or plague. Yet for some reason we have turned the meaning of the word on its head in the Gospels, which as has been pointed out, are actually still OT scriptures right up to the cross.
    Like the thief, even if we don't understand the trade God made on the cross, once we cry out to the Lord, we are eternally saved (born again).

    However, for deliverance from evil on our daily basis, it is the blood, and our testifying to it, (Rev12) which overcomes the evil one. This is our daily salvation. For this, we most certainly do need to understand the cross and what happened there.

    As a child of non-christian parents, I was born again, alone in my bedroom with no knowledge of Jesus. I had an encounter with the Holy Spirit and responded to his call on my heart. I was drawn by His love. (Obviously Jesus did the work). I also had further amazing revelations in my mid teens. However it was not until I was 25 that I met evangelists who told me the Gospel story. I rejected it at first, but then later realised that they were talking about the one I already knew.

    My wife also of non-christian parents, met the Lord when she was 3 years old. She didn't hear the gospel until someone gave her a bible when she was 18. She read of the things she had seen in the spirit as a child. She then became a Christian.

    For us both, it was not until we started to take hold of the cross that our lives began to see change.

    We were both born again as children, but we didn't take hold of the salvation it gave until much later. Baptism is a key part of the walk of that salvation, but has nothing to do with getting born again.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
    Posts
    4,505
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Could you recall with a scripture quote the passage speaking of the thiefs death?

    I believe you're assuming that. It would be my thought that the soldiers were going to break their legs (hastening death) but no record of them carrying that out or the thieves dying from that action.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    4,264

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by TomH View Post
    Could you recall with a scripture quote the passage speaking of the thiefs death?

    I believe you're assuming that. It would be my thought that the soldiers were going to break their legs (hastening death) but no record of them carrying that out or the thieves dying from that action.
    I saw it in a Jesus movie. Does that count?

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
    Posts
    4,505
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    I saw it in a Jesus movie. Does that count?
    Only if you saw it on the big screen. (with extra butter on the popcorn)

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    seated in Christ at the right hand of my Father
    Posts
    2,338

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    I bet that thief never dreamed he'd be famous...
    Sunset remembers Eden...sunrise prophesies its return.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    4,264

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    I bet that thief never dreamed he'd be famous...
    Probably not. Imagine being a criminal your entire life, then repenting while nailed to a cross, and being remembered throughout history for doing so.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
    Posts
    4,505
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Probably not. Imagine being a criminal your entire life, then repenting while nailed to a cross, and being remembered throughout history for doing so.

    Not to be real picky, but I believe the thieves were tied to their crosses.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    4,264

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by TomH View Post
    Not to be real picky, but I believe the thieves were tied to their crosses.
    Really? No nails for them? Didn't know that.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Everywhere I go, there I am.
    Posts
    21,013

    Re: The Thief On the Cross

    Quote Originally Posted by TomH View Post
    Not to be real picky, but I believe the thieves were tied to their crosses.
    based on what exactly?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. as a thief in the night
    By Caleb in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: Jan 11th 2011, 12:25 PM
  2. a thief in the night
    By markedward in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: Feb 17th 2009, 08:55 PM
  3. A Lesson From A Thief
    By jrepp in forum Poetry
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Feb 3rd 2009, 04:42 PM
  4. The thief on the cross
    By reformedct in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: Jan 14th 2009, 12:33 AM
  5. Discussion The Thief
    By Emanate in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Oct 15th 2008, 03:01 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •