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Thread: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

  1. THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    The issue of OSAS (once saved always saved) versus NOSAS always seem to bring heated debate and sometimes harsh words. I wish to offer the following (soemwhat long of necessity) that may very well bring some resolution and hopefully edification.

    THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT

    (By brother Tarran Dookie; known asOvercomer7 on this forum)

    THE FALL OFMAN AND ELECTION

    When Adam fell the human race fell. God foreknew the fall of man forHe is omniscient. God also planned a remedy for the fall of man and that wasthe plan of redemption through the last Adam, Christ Jesus. The imagination of man’s heart is continually inclined to do evil (Gen 6:5). Contrary to the teachings of thephilosophy of this world, man is not naturally good but naturally evil. Allhave sinned and fall short of the glory of God and there is none righteous.Accordingly man is destined for the punishment of hell, the eternal dwellingplace of the devil and his angels.However, God wants to bring forth a people out of this fallen stateand demonstrate to Satan and his followers His own glory through this people. Outof the multitude of fallen mankind God has chosen a remnant according to theelection of grace. This people, called the elect of God, shall fulfil God’spurpose. Though not fulfilled in the first Adam, the purpose of God shall befulfilled in and through the last Adam, Jesus Christ.

    Isa 65:9 And I will bring fortha seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mineelect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
    John 10:16 And other sheep Ihave, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hearmy voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.(See also Rom 11:28-29)

    The process of redemption was initiated in the beginning, from thevery foundation of the world. Abel’s offering of the firstlings of the flocktypified the lamb of God. Abraham was chosen by God to be the one through whomall the families of the earth would be blessed. Israel, from the seed ofAbraham, was chosen to be God’s elect among the nations. Christ came to redeemnot only the elect of Israel but the elect among the nations, making the twoone. The elect of God is one people, a chosen generation and a royalpriesthood. The calling of God is without repentance. God’s purpose in electionhas no shadow of turning.

    GOD SHOWS MERCY ON WHOM HE WILLS AND HARDENS WHOM HE WILLS

    Rom 9:18-24 Therefore hath hemercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt saythen unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Naybut, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed sayto him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter powerover the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and anotherunto dishonour? What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his powerknown, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not ofthe Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

    In the eternal purpose of God there are vessels of wrath and vesselsof mercy. The vessels of wrath are fitteth to destruction, instruments throughwhom the wrath of God is displayed. Is there injustice on God’s part in fittingvessels for destruction? Paul’s response is the response of the Holy Spirit:the potter has power over the clay. Furthermore, one must remember that thewages of sin is death and all have been found guilty and deserving ofpunishment. However, rather than consign all to this punishment, God chose that Hemight make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy (the electremnant), which He had afore prepared unto glory (a company comprising bothJews and Gentiles).Jacob was chosen by God. He was the younger but God chose in this casethat the elder (Esau) would serve the younger (Jacob). The election was madebefore they were born. See Rom 9:10-16

    We are told that God loved Jacob and hated Esau. In fact, according toMal 1:1-3 God tells Israel (the seed of Jacob) that the proof of His love wasthat He loved Jacob and hated Esau. God’s prerogative is to have mercy on whomHe will have mercy and compassion on whom He will have compassion. See Mal1:1-3Rom 9:16-18

    So then it is notof him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raisedthee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declaredthroughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy,and whom he will he hardeneth.

    Various passages in Exodus (Exo 4:21;Exo 7:3; Exo 9:13-16; Exo11:10; Exo 14:3-4; Exo 14:17 mention the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart byGod. The passage in Rom 9:16-18 sums up the purpose of God in hardeningPharaoh’s heart. God actually raised up Pharaoh for the purpose of showing Hispower, that His name would be declared throughout all the earth.

    John 17:12 While I was withthem in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I havekept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripturemight be fulfilled.

    The son of perdition was of necessity for the scriptures to befulfilled. Jesus not only knew who would betray him but was aware that therehad to be a betrayer. There had to be a Judas. The phrase ‘the son ofperdition’ appears only twice in the Bible. In John 17:12 it refers to Judasand in 2 Th 2:3 it refers to the antichrist. They both operate after theworking of Satan. Satan entered Judas and he will enter the antichrist.Just as Pharaoh was raised up to demonstrate God’s power, so too Judaswas appointed to be the betrayer. Although Judas was one of the chosen twelve,Jesus knew from the beginning that he was the son of perdition. Notice thateven before the betrayal, he was a thief and stole from the bag he wasentrusted with (see John 12:3-6). Jesus called him a devil even before thebetrayal.

    GOD HASCHOSEN OR PREDESTINATED A REMNANT TO BE THE ELECT

    John 15:19 If ye were of theworld, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but Ihave chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    The elect are chosen out of the world by Jesus Christ. As a people notof this world, the elect is hated and despised by the world.
    Acts 13:48 And when theGentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and asmany as were ordained to eternal life believed.
    Rom 8:29-30 For whom he didforeknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he didpredestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified:and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
    Rom 11:5-7 Even so then at thispresent time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And ifby grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But ifit be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but theelection hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    There is a people ordained to eternal life. Election is bound up inthe purpose of God. Election is according to the calling of God and is not ofworks. Election is of grace and not of works. See also Eph 1:3-6; Eph 1:11; 2 Th 2:13; 1 Pet 1:2, 7-10; Rev 17:14

    THE ETERNALSECURITY OF THE ELECT

    When one understands the doctrine of election the doctrine of eternalsecurity poses no problem. The fact is that God has an elect and He willcomplete what He has begun in them. Some of the elect will bear more fruit thanothers. Some will be more spiritual than others. But none of the elect can belost.

    John 6:39 And this is theFather's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I shouldlose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.(See also John 6: 37; John 6:44; John 17:1-2)

    The Father has given to the Son specific souls. Of these Jesus says Hewill lose none. The elect comes to the Son because the Father draws them.

    John 10:27-29 My sheep hear myvoice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life;and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluckthem out of my Father's hand.

    The sheep that belongs to Jesus follow Him. According to John 10:27-29 they shall never perish and cannot be plucked out of Jesus’ hand or theFather’s hand. No man can pluck them out of the Father’s hand.

    Jesus gives eternal life to as many as theFather has given Him. It is a specific people and they possess eternal life,held in place by Jesus Himself. (See also Acts 13:48; Titus 1:1-2;Rom 8:28-29;1 Cor1:8)

    The elect is called, foreknown, predestinated, justified and glorifiedby God. The salvation of the elect is sure because God will confirm them untothe end and they would be blameless in the day of Christ.

    Phil 1:6 Being confident ofthis very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform ituntil the day of Jesus Christ.

    2 Tim 1:12 For the which causeI also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom Ihave believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I havecommitted unto him against that day.

    God will perform the good work He has begun in the elect until the dayof Jesus Christ. The elect can rest assured that God is able to keep that whichhas been committed unto him against that day.

    2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless thefoundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them thatare his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart frominiquity.
    The Lord knoweth them that are His. This is the sure foundation onwhich the eternal security of the elect stands. There is a people that areGod’s. The salvation of the elect is sure because of the seal of God, ‘The Lordknoweth them that are His’.

    1 John 2:19 They went out fromus, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt havecontinued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest thatthey were not all of us.
    This is an important verse as it explains why some are in the churchbut subsequently leave, why some are saved but do not endure or persevere tothe end. Simply put, they were not of us. The elect of God continues in the wayof Christ. They may stumble along the way but what God has put in their heartsabides forever. Those who are not of the elect may partake of and embrace theteachings and ways of the elect for a time but would not continue for they werenot all of us.

    MAKING OURCALLING AND ELECTION SURE

    From God’s viewpoint the elect is the elect is the elect. From man’sviewpoint he must make his calling and election sure. With God all things arepresent. He looks at one of His own and sees him as he is yesterday, today andtomorrow. He sees him when he was regenerated, when he stumbles, when herepents and when he is caught up in God forever. The elect does not see all ofthis. Hence, he is admonished to take heed lest he fall, to strive to enter thenarrow gate, to make his calling and election sure, to abide in Christ (thevine).

    1 Th 1:4 Knowing, brethrenbeloved, your election of God.
    It is a fact that the elect can know of their election. It is clearfrom some of the writings of the apostles (such as Peter, Paul and John) that theyknew of their election and eternal state. It may be true that some of the electdo not have this inner revelation or understanding but that does not mean theyare any less the elect.
    Now God knows the elect for they have been foreordained before thefoundation of the world. Jesus said none that the Father gave Him will be lost.God knows the elect, yes He knows His own. However, not all of the elect mayknow that they are the elect. Knowing that one is of the elect is a matter ofinward knowledge. The admonitions given to the elect do not fall on deaf ears. The electof God will indeed pay heed for they are the chosen sheep and will hear thegood shepherd’s voice and follow him. However, those who are not His sheep willnot obey. They may at one time be believers and partakers of the Holy Spiritbut they eventually become apostate. They will have no excuse for the word ofGod will judge them. The various admonitions will be a witness against them.

    2 Pet 1:10 Wherefore therather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for ifye do these things, ye shall never fall.Phil 2:12-13 Wherefore, mybeloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now muchmore in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For itis God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Heb 10:38 Now the just shalllive by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believeto the saving of the soul.1 John 5:18 We know thatwhosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepethhimself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
    The elect must still give diligence to make his calling and electionsure and must work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. But noticethis is not accomplished by one’s own efforts but rather it is God whichworketh in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure.The admonitions contained in Scriptures are not teaching that theelect can lose their salvation. For the elect are those who do not draw back toperdition.

    ONCE SAVED,ALWAYS SAVED?

    The question is asked: What about all the admonitions and warningsthat seem to suggest that once saved not always saved? Do not these versessuggest that a saved person can lose their salvation? The answer is yes. Asaved person can lose his salvation. There are persons who were saved and havefallen away completely. All of the elect are saved. All of the saved are notthe elect. As the parable of the sower and the seed teaches many whoreceive the word will not continue. Many are called but few are chosen.Consider the following verses:

    Rom 11:21-22 For if God sparednot the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Beholdtherefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; buttoward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou alsoshalt be cut off.
    If the believer does not continue in God’s goodness, he shall be cutoff.

    1 Cor 9:26-27 I therefore sorun, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But Ikeep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, whenI have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
    All believers must bring the body into subjection lest they becomecastaways. But Paul did not become a castaway and none of the elect will becomea castaway.

    1 Cor 10:12 Wherefore let himthat thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
    A powerful admonition to take heed lest one falls.

    1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spiritspeaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
    The tempter would lead some believers astray and indeed some shalldepart from the faith and give heed to Satan.

    Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossiblefor those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, andwere made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God,and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew themagain unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh,and put him to an open shame.
    Some believers will fall away and never repent.

    Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren,lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from theliving God.
    The believer’s belief can turn into unbelief and he can depart fromthe living God.

    See also 2 Cor 13:5; I Th 3:5; Heb 10:26-31;2 Pet 2:20-22;Col 1:21-23;1 John 2:3-6.

    Rev 2:4-5 Nevertheless I havesomewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remembertherefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; orelse I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of hisplace, except thou repent.
    Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, thesame shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out ofthe book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before hisangels.
    John 15:1-6 I am the true vine,and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit hetaketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it maybring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spokenunto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself,except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am thevine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the samebringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide notin me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, andcast them into the fire, and they are burned.

    The believer who leaves his first love and never repents, who does notovercome sin and the world, who does not abide in Christ the true vine shallexperience eternal loss. His candlestick shall be removed, his name blotted outof the book of life, and he is cast forth as a branch and is withered. Mat 13:3-23 (the parable of the sower)The parable of the sower suggests that some believers would fall awaybecause of tribulation or persecution or because of the cares and pleasures ofthis world or deceitfulness of riches. However, the elect are those who hearthe word and bring forth fruit.Mat 25:1-30 (the parables of the ten virgins and the parable of thetalents)The parables of the ten virgins and the parable of the talentsindicate that some believers would be found wanting and not be received intothe kingdom.

    The Scriptures do not contradict each other. One set of verses arewritten from the viewpoint of man and largely are in the nature of admonitions.Those who adhere to the doctrine of the eternal security of all believers, whenconfronted with the many verses that teach that believers can depart from thefaith and be lost, contend that they were never saved in the first place. This line of argument is poor and makes a mockery of the word of God. The verses inquestion clearly show that these believers were once saved but did not continueand drew back to perdition. Another set of verses are written from theviewpoint of God and teach that God’s elect cannot be lost for God Himselfkeeps them and they cannot be plucked out of the Father’s hand.The scriptures do not teach the eternal security of all believers butthe scriptures do teach the eternal security of the elect. The scriptures make it abundantlyclear that many who once believed will fall away for various reasons and belost. However, the scriptures also make it abundantly clear that God has anelect whom He shall preserve and save and accomplish the good work He has begun in them.

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    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Not win the cosmic lottery and you will be saved.

    God in his foreknowledge knows who the elect are. These are his sheep who can never be snatched out of his hand. The names of the saved are written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. This knowledge belongs to God alone not for us in the here and now. We begin our walk with Christ by faith and we continue and grow by faith and are at last finished by faith. At any point along the way it is possible to lose faith and eventually be lost and there are a multitude of examples of this in the bible.

    Calvinism is close to truth. The best lies are always a mixture of truth and error. Where it fails is that it destroys the character of God as a loving father and turns him into an unfeeling monster with no regard for his own creation. Many, many souls will be lost but who is ultimately responsible for this? God or the unrepentant sinner who rejects Jesus Christ as his savior. The final judgment reveals why the lost will be lost and it's not because God made them that way. It's because their works were bad. We do play a part in our own Salvation. The words of Christ to the seven churches of Revelation and an indictment on the philosophy of John Calvin.

  3. #3

    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Hello Overcomer7

    Do you mean an elect person has already been chosen by God so they are just fulfilling the pre program that God has already planned for them so they have no free will they are just completing there inevitable path that they must follow?

    Do you also mean a saved person is already doomed because they are not part of the select or elect group because God did not choose to save them, so he gave them free will instead, because he is going to discard them because he is the potter and they are the clay and he made the decision for them instead of them making the decision for themselves.

    Is this what you are saying the bible teaches?

    Peace

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    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Thanks for all your hard work, Tarran. This answers a lot of questions. I still have doubts about my own salvation sometimes, though. I have fallen away (lived my life the way I wanted to), even though I never stopped believing. I have repented, fallen away again, and come back several times, but this time I want to make sure it sticks. The bad decisions I have made in my life truly grieve me, but I still wonder sometimes if it's not too late for me...

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    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanne57 View Post
    Thanks for all your hard work, Tarran. This answers a lot of questions. I still have doubts about my own salvation sometimes, though. I have fallen away (lived my life the way I wanted to), even though I never stopped believing. I have repented, fallen away again, and come back several times, but this time I want to make sure it sticks. The bad decisions I have made in my life truly grieve me, but I still wonder sometimes if it's not too late for me...
    It's never too late and the fact that you are asking the question indicates that the Spirit of God is at work in your heart. Continue to remind yourself of what is true, and continue to trust Jesus.

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    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanne57 View Post
    Thanks for all your hard work, Tarran. This answers a lot of questions. I still have doubts about my own salvation sometimes, though. I have fallen away (lived my life the way I wanted to), even though I never stopped believing. I have repented, fallen away again, and come back several times, but this time I want to make sure it sticks. The bad decisions I have made in my life truly grieve me, but I still wonder sometimes if it's not too late for me...
    I know how you feel, because what you said here fits me as well. Which is another reason I started a thread about backsliding just recently, though I never told anyone that was one of the reasons. Even though it's clear from the OT that Israel backslid on occasion, then was back in God's graces, that was always happening to the nation as a whole it seems. But what about on an individual level after Christ came and paid the price in full? And what about getting grafted into the good olive tree, and that if one isn't careful, God can cut that person off from it as well, like He did with some of the natural branches? And if that happens to someone, where does it ever give the impression one can be grafted back in again at some point, especially after they already initially believed in order to be grafted into it? And finally, especially in regards to the good olive tree, with backsliding in mind, how can one know whether they're still part of the olive tree or not?

  7. #7

    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nola369 View Post
    At any point along the way it is possible to lose faith and eventually be lost and there are a multitude of examples of this in the bible.
    Very good point Nola! One is lost when the faith they possess remains natural, and never becomes supernatural faith that leads to everlasting life. We often confuse faith and grace! When we do its because we think we are saved by faith, rather than by grace. We are saved BY GRACE...period! THROUGH FAITH that is not our own, but the gift of God's grace in salvation. Indeed many who profess saving faith, have NOT saving faith, but natural faith. Natural faith is not of God's grace, so for that reason many are lost who possess faith, but none can be lost who possess supernatural faith of God by grace alone.

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    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam07 View Post
    Hello Overcomer7

    Do you mean an elect person has already been chosen by God so they are just fulfilling the pre program that God has already planned for them so they have no free will they are just completing there inevitable path that they must follow?

    Do you also mean a saved person is already doomed because they are not part of the select or elect group because God did not choose to save them, so he gave them free will instead, because he is going to discard them because he is the potter and they are the clay and he made the decision for them instead of them making the decision for themselves.

    Is this what you are saying the bible teaches?

    Peace
    God chooses those who choose Him and stay with Him. Since God is omniscient, he knew the mind and heart of every person who would ever live before creation even began. God knows what our decisions will be; He doesn't make them for us. Although the Bible says that God is slow to anger, and quick to forgive, I believe there does come a point in a person's life, when they have been in rebellion against Him long enough, that He won't ALLOW them to come to Him (like Pharaoh and Judas). Yes, Judas repented of his sin, but he went to the priests, not to God, and instead of seeking God, he chose to take his own life instead, sealing his fate. No one can be sure when that point has been reached, however, but if you're worried about it, then you haven't reached it. Those people won't even WANT to know about God, and won't care about Him at all.

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    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanne57 View Post
    God chooses those who choose Him and stay with Him. Since God is omniscient, he knew the mind and heart of every person who would ever live before creation even began. God knows what our decisions will be; He doesn't make them for us. Although the Bible says that God is slow to anger, and quick to forgive, I believe there does come a point in a person's life, when they have been in rebellion against Him long enough, that He won't ALLOW them to come to Him (like Pharaoh and Judas). Yes, Judas repented of his sin, but he went to the priests, not to God, and instead of seeking God, he chose to take his own life instead, sealing his fate. No one can be sure when that point has been reached, however, but if you're worried about it, then you haven't reached it. Those people won't even WANT to know about God, and won't care about Him at all.
    hi

    interesting leave it with me

    i have many questions and examples to consider and reflect on

    Peace

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    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I know how you feel, because what you said here fits me as well. Which is another reason I started a thread about backsliding just recently, though I never told anyone that was one of the reasons. Even though it's clear from the OT that Israel backslid on occasion, then was back in God's graces, that was always happening to the nation as a whole it seems. But what about on an individual level after Christ came and paid the price in full? And what about getting grafted into the good olive tree, and that if one isn't careful, God can cut that person off from it as well, like He did with some of the natural branches? And if that happens to someone, where does it ever give the impression one can be grafted back in again at some point, especially after they already initially believed in order to be grafted into it? And finally, especially in regards to the good olive tree, with backsliding in mind, how can one know whether they're still part of the olive tree or not?
    I'm not sure, but I think we're either part of the olive tree or we're not. Even with backsliding, God knows whether that person will repent and return to Him or not. It's only by the grace of God that I didn't die in my backslidden state, or I wouldn't have had the CHANCE to repent. The Lamb's Book of Life was written before the foundation of the world, and again, either our names are there, or they're not. They don't get written in when we get saved, then erased and get written back in again. All the names that were ever going to be there, ARE there, and have been from eternity. That doesn't mean we don't have to still live with the consequences of our bad behaviour, however, just as David suffered the consequences of his sin with Bathsheba for the rest of his life, even though he was forgiven, and God chose a son of Bathsheba to succeed David to the throne of Israel.

  11. #11

    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    This was on my mind tonight ... and I just wanted to share it with everyone.

    1 Peter 1:1-7 KJV

    (1 Pet 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

    (1 Pet 1:2 KJV) Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    (1 Pet 1:3 KJV) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    (1 Pet 1:4 KJV) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

    (1 Pet 1:5 KJV) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    (1 Pet 1:6 KJV) Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

    (1 Pet 1:7 KJV) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:




    The Armour of God

    (Eph 6:11 KJV) Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    (Eph 6:12 KJV) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    (Eph 6:13 KJV) Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    (Eph 6:14 KJV) Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

    (Eph 6:15 KJV) And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

    (Eph 6:16 KJV) Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

    (Eph 6:17 KJV) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

    (Eph 6:18 KJV) Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;


    Over the past few years I have begun to view the armour of God differently. I used to focus in on the parts of the armour such as the belt, the helmet, the sword, the breastplate, the shield, but these are wrong things to focus on.

    The armour of God is to protect our faith and Paul writes to put on the whole armour so that we can stand (in the faith we have in Christ Jesus).

    Imo, Paul here writes that when our faith is tested, we are to remember and put on the things God has given us (armour) as reassurance so that we can stand and keep the faith.


    Truth – Truth comes from God, For the Holy spirit is the spirit of truth, which Jesus sent to us.

    Righteousness – It is in Christ Jesus righteousness that we are justified. Not by our own works or efforts.

    Gospel of Peace – For we have peace with God, when we repent of our sin and accept Jesus as our saviour.

    Faith – Our faith is in Christ Jesus, even though we go through trials and temptations, hardships and doubts.

    Salvation – Christ Jesus is our savior. He saves us from our sin. We have the Holy Spirit who intercedes for us on our behalf.

    Word of God – Jesus is the Word. The bible is the written word which we turn to in our times of need.

    Prayer and supplication (petitions and requests)

    When our faith is shaken, when we have doubts, Paul reminds us to remember all the things which our faith is based on. Put on the full armour (Our salvation in Christ Jesus, our faith in Christ Jesus, Our righteousness in Christ Jesus, The truth that comes from God. In our times of need, pray in the spirit, read the bible – word of God).


    Romans 8:33-39 KJV

    (Rom 8:33 KJV) Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    (Rom 8:34 KJV) Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    (Rom 8:35 KJV) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

    (Rom 8:36 KJV) As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

    (Rom 8:37 KJV) Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

    (Rom 8:38 KJV) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

    (Rom 8:39 KJV) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

  12. #12
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    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Whenever I read these verses in Ephesians, I always seem to have Tom Petty running through my head. Take a close listen to the lyrics. (They're also printed on the screen.)


  13. #13
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    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Overcomer7 View Post
    The issue of OSAS (once saved always saved) versus NOSAS always seem to bring heated debate and sometimes harsh words. I wish to offer the following (soemwhat long of necessity) that may very well bring some resolution and hopefully edification.

    ...When one understands the doctrine of election the doctrine of eternalsecurity poses no problem...
    Hello Overcomer7,

    The topics/views you have shared in your opening post have been discussed here on and off for many years, so there is nothing new here. Concerning your last statement above, I would say that how one understands 'election' will relate to how they view 'eternal security'. I understand 'election' in a corporate sense. I would say that God has 'elected' a corporate entity - the church - and that by applying 'election' in an individual manner like so many do, you have missed this important truth. I would also say that I see 'eternal security' as an ongoing, synergistic relationship - those who abide in Christ (remain in the elect body) are eternally secure, those who fail to abide in the elect body fail to remain eternally secure (because they left the security of the body). The security of the body is without doubt and cannot be changed, but the membership of any given person can change (individuals can both join and depart the body).

    The view that there are certain, select individuals who have been 'elected' by God from before time, and who can therefore neither affect nor negate their 'eternal security' is not accepted by a great many, and in fact, many (like myself) consider that view to be not only wrong, but misleading at best and outright dangerous at worst. The worst comes about when people are taught/believe that their moral behavior can have no impact on their eternal standing, and therefore they live carelessly. The belief that one's moral behavior can have no impact upon one's salvation is at the heart of the OSAS message; this is a wrong message and plays into the downfall of many who name it and claim it.

    The proper message is that those who abide in Christ (which includes living according to His moral standards) are saved. Did not Jesus ask something like, "Why do you call Me Lord if you do not do what I say?" [Luke 6] To be one of the elect one must walk the path of the elect, and this is not something that happens without one's willful and continual involvement and effort. The doctrines of individual election and OSAS deny the role of human will/effort in the salvation process - and therein lies the danger.

  14. Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    I have perused the various replies to my thread and I am not surprised at the varied comments. Let me make it clear that I am not supporting OSAS as popularly taught. Someone mentioned Calvin. I have never read any of his writings and I am not sure what he stood for. I cannot respond to each person as I sense that almost everyone is either supporting OSAS or rejecting it. Jeanne57 seems to be the only one that understands where I am coming from.

    As someone mentioned this topic has been debated many times and few shift their views. I prefer to look at all scripture on the topic and reconcile them. One set of verses do not negate others. They must be reconciled and that is what I sought to do.

    I repeat my last paragraph:The scriptures do not teach the eternal security of all believers but the scriptures do teach the eternal security of the elect. The scriptures make it abundantly clear that many who once believed will fall away for various reasons and be lost. However, the scriptures also make it abundantly clear that God has an elect whom He shall preserve and save and accomplish the good work He has begun in them.

  15. #15
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    Re: THE ELECT IS THE ELECT IS THE ELECT (A fresh look at OSAS/NOSAS)

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerW View Post
    Very good point Nola! One is lost when the faith they possess remains natural, and never becomes supernatural faith that leads to everlasting life. We often confuse faith and grace! When we do its because we think we are saved by faith, rather than by grace. We are saved BY GRACE...period! THROUGH FAITH that is not our own, but the gift of God's grace in salvation. Indeed many who profess saving faith, have NOT saving faith, but natural faith. Natural faith is not of God's grace, so for that reason many are lost who possess faith, but none can be lost who possess supernatural faith of God by grace alone.
    So how do we know whether the faith we have is natural or supernatural?

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