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Thread: In the Regeneration...

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    In the Regeneration...

    Matthew 19:28 “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

    What is the regeneration? Human or New Earth?

    Is this the time when Jesus sits on the throne of glory?

    Are the 12 thrones for the 12 disciples or all who follow him?

    They are judging Israel at this time, when is it? Jesus second coming or after the 1000 years in the GWTJ?

  2. #2

    Re: In the Regeneration...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Matthew 19:28 “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

    What is the regeneration? Human or New Earth?

    Is this the time when Jesus sits on the throne of glory?

    Are the 12 thrones for the 12 disciples or all who follow him?

    They are judging Israel at this time, when is it? Jesus second coming or after the 1000 years in the GWTJ?
    The regeneration is when mortality takes on immortality and corruption becomes incorruptible.
    If you would have posted more of what Jesus said in those verses He speaks of every saint that is to come when He says:

    29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[k] or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

    With this it shows that what encompasses the regeneration also requires all saints.

    So by having this in the verse we know that the regeneration cannot occur until all that will leave houses or brothers or sisters or mothers or fathers or wife's or children or lands to follow Him has occurred and since by other scripture we know that this will continue to occur right up to the moment He returns then we can conclude that the regeneration is in fact involved in His second coming.

    1 Thess 4:

    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[a]
    15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep

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    Re: In the Regeneration...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Matthew 19:28 “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

    What is the regeneration? Human or New Earth?

    Is this the time when Jesus sits on the throne of glory?

    Are the 12 thrones for the 12 disciples or all who follow him?

    They are judging Israel at this time, when is it? Jesus second coming or after the 1000 years in the GWTJ?
    The regeneration is the national regeneration of Israel as for example described in Ezekiel:

    36:24 « For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. »

    Zechariah:

    13:1 « In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. 2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. »

    This is indeed when the Lord will be sitting on His throne and the 12 thrones are for 12 disciples who will rule (not judge) the 12 tribes of Israel.

    BTW it says in Mathew 19:28 « those who followed Christ », not « those who followed Christ in the regeneration », because Christ was never regenerated so one can't follow Him in that.

    Aristarkos

  4. #4

    Re: In the Regeneration...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    The regeneration is the national regeneration of Israel as for example described in Ezekiel:

    36:24 « For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. »

    Zechariah:

    13:1 « In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. 2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. »

    This is indeed when the Lord will be sitting on His throne and the 12 thrones are for 12 disciples who will rule (not judge) the 12 tribes of Israel.

    BTW it says in Mathew 19:28 « those who followed Christ », not « those who followed Christ in the regeneration », because Christ was never regenerated so one can't follow Him in that.

    Aristarkos
    It says directly judging the 12 tribes of Israel... So yes they are judging.

    Also can't be specifically national Israel as it literally describes "Everyone who leaves brothers or sisters or fathers ext"
    Which is also followed up with shall inherit eternal life, which we know through scripture that call is for His, Saints.
    So unless you mean Israel that's made up of Jew and Gentile saints, then I'll have to disagree.

    Christ was the first fruit of regeneration, He was raised immortal and incorruptible, a new flesh.


    This regeneration which you can see in the verse takes place when He sits on His throne of glory as the 12 Apostles will judge the 12 tribes of Israel and everyone who follows Him will receive a hundredfold and inherit eternal life.

    All of these are inseparable:
    Regeneration
    Sits on His throne of glory
    Apostles judge the 12 tribes of Israel
    Everyone who follows Him receives a hundredfold and inherits eternal life.

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    Re: In the Regeneration...

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllLinked View Post
    The regeneration is when mortality takes on immortality and corruption becomes incorruptible.
    If you would have posted more of what Jesus said in those verses He speaks of every saint that is to come when He says:

    29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[k] or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

    With this it shows that what encompasses the regeneration also requires all saints.

    So by having this in the verse we know that the regeneration cannot occur until all that will leave houses or brothers or sisters or mothers or fathers or wife's or children or lands to follow Him has occurred and since by other scripture we know that this will continue to occur right up to the moment He returns then we can conclude that the regeneration is in fact involved in His second coming.
    I have a different take on the following verse. In another passage Jesus says we will inherit 30, 60, and 100 fold. In this passage he only mentions the 100 fold. This is for the few who actually leave behind their families, like the disciples, to follow him. Most of us never have to do that. Hence we are in the 30 or 60 fold group. It's fair.

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    Re: In the Regeneration...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    The regeneration is the national regeneration of Israel as for example described in Ezekiel:

    36:24 « For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. »

    Zechariah:

    13:1 « In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. 2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. »

    This is indeed when the Lord will be sitting on His throne and the 12 thrones are for 12 disciples who will rule (not judge) the 12 tribes of Israel.
    I do believe Israel will be restored at Jesus' coming. Do you think that will coincide with the change to immortality?

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    Re: In the Regeneration...

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllLinked View Post
    It says directly judging the 12 tribes of Israel... So yes they are judging.
    krinō
    Thayer Definition:
    1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
    2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
    3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
    4) to determine, resolve, decree
    5) to judge
    5a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
    5a1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one’s case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
    5b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
    5b1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
    6) to rule, govern
    6a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
    7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
    7a) to dispute
    7b) in a forensic sense
    7b1) to go to law, have suit at law

    So not necessarily judge, ruling is more appropriate here rulers sit on thrones.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllLinked View Post
    Also can't be specifically national Israel as it literally describes "Everyone who leaves brothers or sisters or fathers ext"
    Which is also followed up with shall inherit eternal life, which we know through scripture that call is for His, Saints.
    So unless you mean Israel that's made up of Jew and Gentile saints, then I'll have to disagree.
    There is not one Scripture that says there will be a mixed Jew/Gentile Israel, so considering the rest of Matthew 19:28 « the twelve tribes of Israel » it will be just that. Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllLinked View Post
    Christ was the first fruit of regeneration, He was raised immortal and incorruptible, a new flesh.
    Christ was never regenerated so He can not be the first fruit of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllLinked View Post
    This regeneration which you can see in the verse takes place when He sits on His throne of glory as the 12 Apostles will judge the 12 tribes of Israel and everyone who follows Him will receive a hundredfold and inherit eternal life.

    All of these are inseparable:
    Regeneration
    Sits on His throne of glory
    Apostles judge the 12 tribes of Israel
    Everyone who follows Him receives a hundredfold and inherits eternal life.
    Where does it say everyone in Matthew 19:28? The Lord was talking to the 12, hence the 12 thrones. You should really pay more attention to what is written.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: In the Regeneration...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    I do believe Israel will be restored at Jesus' coming. Do you think that will coincide with the change to immortality?
    I think it is after that. When the Kingdom of Heaven is established that's when the national regeneration will take place. Mat. 19:28 « ... when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory ... ». The change to what you call immortality is before that:

    1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    This will happen in Daniels 70th seven at the end of this aion (Mat. 24:3), the restoration of Israel will be the start of the new aion.

    Aristarkos

  9. #9

    Re: In the Regeneration...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    krinō
    Thayer Definition:
    1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
    2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
    3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
    4) to determine, resolve, decree
    5) to judge
    5a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
    5a1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one’s case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
    5b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
    5b1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
    6) to rule, govern
    6a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
    7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
    7a) to dispute
    7b) in a forensic sense
    7b1) to go to law, have suit at law

    So not necessarily judge, ruling is more appropriate here rulers sit on thrones.



    There is not one Scripture that says there will be a mixed Jew/Gentile Israel, so considering the rest of Matthew 19:28 « the twelve tribes of Israel » it will be just that. Israel



    Christ was never regenerated so He can not be the first fruit of it.



    Where does it say everyone in Matthew 19:28? The Lord was talking to the 12, hence the 12 thrones. You should really pay more attention to what is written.

    Aristarkos
    Judging is ruling, so I'm not disagreeing, it's just that you wrote they weren't judging which clearly they are.

    Actually there is because no one goes to the Father except through Him.
    That means saints regardless of race are all His through Christ.

    He says everyone that follows Me in Matthew 19, Peter asked what their rewards would be for following Him.
    Jesus tells them they will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.
    He then states "Everyone who follows Him" would receive a hundredfold and inherit eternal life.

    Who inherits eternal life? Saints.
    Regardless of race, gender or where they are, "Everyone" that follows Him receive reward and inherits eternal life.

    Yes Jesus was regenerated, He rose in the regenerated body, they couldn't even recognize him at first.
    This is the body all of His will raise in, the immortal, incorruptible body.

    Jesus even addresses this in Matthew 19 when He states in the regeneration when the He sits on His throne of glory.
    Which he then tells them they will sit on the 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel and "everyone that follows Him" receives reward and inherits eternal life.
    Which when we are raised immortal and incorruptible we are raised to eternal life, the regeneration.

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    Re: In the Regeneration...

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAllLinked View Post
    Judging is ruling, so I'm not disagreeing, it's just that you wrote they weren't judging which clearly they are.

    Actually there is because no one goes to the Father except through Him.
    That means saints regardless of race are all His through Christ.

    He says everyone that follows Me in Matthew 19, Peter asked what their rewards would be for following Him.
    Jesus tells them they will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.
    He then states "Everyone who follows Him" would receive a hundredfold and inherit eternal life.

    Who inherits eternal life? Saints.
    Regardless of race, gender or where they are, "Everyone" that follows Him receive reward and inherits eternal life.

    Yes Jesus was regenerated, He rose in the regenerated body, they couldn't even recognize him at first.
    This is the body all of His will raise in, the immortal, incorruptible body.

    Jesus even addresses this in Matthew 19 when He states in the regeneration when the He sits on His throne of glory.
    Which he then tells them they will sit on the 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel and "everyone that follows Him" receives reward and inherits eternal life.
    Which when we are raised immortal and incorruptible we are raised to eternal life, the regeneration.
    You are clearly confused, there is a distinct difference between regeneration and resurrection. Christ was resurrected which the Scriptures say:

    Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

    I can guarantee you, you won't be able to find one single verse that says the Lord was regenerated.

    You seem to have more confusion about the difference between those who literally followed the Lord and left everything behind and those believing in the Lord.

    Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

    The 12 left everything behind and followed the Lord:

    Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
    Mat 9:9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.
    Joh 1:43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.

    There is no reward for believing in Christ, only grace. There is reward for the disciples for leaving everything behind and literally following the Lord, this reward is sitting on the 12 thrones, not the resurrection. The resurrection is always out of grace.

    Aristarkos

  11. #11

    Re: In the Regeneration...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    You are clearly confused, there is a distinct difference between regeneration and resurrection. Christ was resurrected which the Scriptures say:

    Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

    I can guarantee you, you won't be able to find one single verse that says the Lord was regenerated.

    You seem to have more confusion about the difference between those who literally followed the Lord and left everything behind and those believing in the Lord.

    Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

    The 12 left everything behind and followed the Lord:

    Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
    Mat 9:9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.
    Joh 1:43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.

    There is no reward for believing in Christ, only grace. There is reward for the disciples for leaving everything behind and literally following the Lord, this reward is sitting on the 12 thrones, not the resurrection. The resurrection is always out of grace.

    Aristarkos
    No I'm not, perhaps how I am explaining it is confusing you, I'm not sure.
    Really we are actually talking of the same thing, the ressurection was regeneration.

    Jesus wasn't immortal or incorruptible, He was man.
    Yet Jesus being of God did not give in to corruption, He was the perfect sacrifice.

    When Jesus rose He rose in exactly what Paul is stating we will raise in at His second coming when we receive the eternal inheritance of corruption becoming incorruptible and mortality putting on immortality.

    Jesus rose in the regenerated body, not the same body He was tombed in. That body was changed, regenerated when He rose.
    This is also the same process through Him that we are given, we are either sleeping (dead) in this body or alive at His coming and we "change" into the new body, the eternal body which is the regeneration action.

    This means resurrection = regeneration in regards to His second coming.

    As for the reward your just arguing with scripture as there's nothing more to add to what you've been given in Matthew 19, only saints follow Jesus, they are His sheep and only saints are raised eternal which Matthew 19 clearly states reward and inherit eternal life for "Everyone" that follows Him.

    The scriptures you are using to discredit what's being said actually agree with what I'm saying the difference is you are not getting that all who actually beleive in Jesus, follow Him.
    You cannot believe in Jesus and not follow Him or you wouldn't be believing in Him.

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