View Poll Results: What Do YOU Believe?

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48. You may not vote on this poll
  • God created all, as stated in Genesis; fully formed creations, reproducing after their kind.

    44 91.67%
  • God created all, using macro-evolution. Simple organisms to man over millions of years.

    3 6.25%
  • Multiple Gods/entities (who we don't know anything about) created everything we see.

    0 0%
  • We were seeded by aliens from another area of the universe or dimension.

    0 0%
  • We don't know what created us and the universe. Some unknown force is behind all reality.

    0 0%
  • I don't know what I believe, I am still on the fence.

    1 2.08%
  • It does not matter what you believe, I don't care.

    0 0%
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Thread: What Do YOU Believe?

  1. #211
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    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    I am guessing you are talking about Genesis 3? If so, satan is a serpent, not necessarily a snake. Serpents in the Bible can be snakes, but also sea serpents like Leviathan. (Job 41) In any case, sure. Whatever the exact form was spoke. That really isn't hard to believe. Balaam's donkey argued with him. The Israelites crossed the Red Sea with a wall of water on both sides of them. Noah built a 450' ark and loaded all the kinds of animals before a worldwide flood. Moses' staff became a snake and then a staff again, as many times as he wanted it to. A talking serpent is no big deal.

    Agree. Great answer Tony.
    True Truth Exists & Can Be Found.

  2. #212
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    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo
    #3. Why did God condemn all A&E offspring to the same fate as A&E?
    Because there was, and is, a much bigger plan going on. Satan convinced 1/3 of the angels of heaven to rebel against God. Think about that one. Angels, who knew God, knew heaven, knew of His glory, and still rebelled. How stupid are those angels? The next group, humans, are refined before receiving eternal life.
    So every new born right out the womb gets the death penalty? We are born to die as only security in life. Isn't the death penalty not given in case of guilt, sin? When did the baby sin?

    Don't get me wrong, I am trying to compare the literal interpretation vs the narrative interpretation. Both tell the story how a Holy God deals with sin and the redemption of it, the central theme of the Scriptures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo
    #4. Why does every human not get the same chance as A&E?
    What do you mean? Chance for what, sin or salvation? Everyone gets a fair hearing on judgment day.
    That every new born (like A&E) gets the same chance, put in the garden with the same 2 trees and the warning not to eat from the TOK. No death penalty on beforehand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo
    #5. Why would a person (who never had any say in his birth) suffer in all eternity in hell because he choose to be an unbeliever? Does he has a point by saying, I never was asked to be born?
    This is a good question.
    Thank you, yes it is. It's another point in favor of a narrative. I mean, we believe that God is love and just.

    And there is a 4th observation, God warned warned A&E they would (only) die eating from the TOK. When they did eat God gave them extra punishments as listed in v16-19.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    God is a just judge. He knows what He has done, and is doing. No one, I mean no one, will have anything to complain about on judgment day. Each and every person will have a fair hearing.
    Amen to that.

  3. #213
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    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo View Post
    So every new born right out the womb gets the death penalty? We are born to die as only security in life. Isn't the death penalty not given in case of guilt, sin? When did the baby sin?

    Don't get me wrong, I am trying to compare the literal interpretation vs the narrative interpretation. Both tell the story how a Holy God deals with sin and the redemption of it, the central theme of the Scriptures.
    First, sorry for the long delay in responding. I was gone for a couple months and then forgot about this thread.

    No. I don't think a baby is born with the death penalty. No one is held accountable before the age of accountability. By whatever age that is, everyone has probably sinned and needs Jesus. Further, it is my understanding from scripture that Gentiles who do not know the law, are not judged by it.

    God has written at least a portion of His law on every heart. For example, even Gentiles of ancient times knew that murder was a sin. We will be judged based on whether we abide by it.

    That every new born (like A&E) gets the same chance, put in the garden with the same 2 trees and the warning not to eat from the TOK. No death penalty on beforehand.
    Yes, I agree. Deuteronomy 1:39.

    Thank you, yes it is. It's another point in favor of a narrative. I mean, we believe that God is love and just.
    I have to be careful here, but the more I study the Bible the more I am beginning to understand God's mercy. And perhaps we are being to legalistic in our interpretation of John 3:18-20, while skipping verse 17. For example, Israel will be judged by a higher standard than Gentiles because they cannot say they didn't know. Amos 3:2. Yet, the remnant of Israel will be saved anyway when Jesus returns. If Jesus can have mercy on those He set apart for a higher standard, how much more mercy can He have for some us Gentiles that are weak in faith? Remember, Jesus didn't preach one word to any Gentiles. He talked to a few, but no preaching. I won't expand on what that may mean.

    There is a big difference in fearing the Lord and being terrified of the Lord. Terror is for those who reject Jesus outright. For example, the muslims can never be sure of their salvation in Islam outside of dying as a martyr. The real God is not about terror.

    Here is another example of mercy.

    Matthew 21:31 Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you. 32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward relent and believe him.

    Here are self righteous Pharisees, all Jews, who didn't believe in Jesus. This would have been a perfect opportunity to condemn them. Instead, Jesus tells them harlots would enter the kingdom before them. Iow, they are still going to enter the kingdom, just that harlots would beat them to it.

    And there is a 4th observation, God warned warned A&E they would (only) die eating from the TOK. When they did eat God gave them extra punishments as listed in v16-19.
    I don't recall God saying they would "only" die. Just that they would surely die in the day they ate the fruit. That doesn't rule out additional hardships until the sentence is carried out. It is possible A&E were told about these as well and it just wasn't recorded.

  4. #214
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    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo View Post
    So every new born right out the womb gets the death penalty? We are born to die as only security in life. Isn't the death penalty not given in case of guilt, sin? When did the baby sin?
    The creation is cursed, so yes, we are all born to die.

    Death is a result of the cursed creation.

    Death is a given, but it is not our only security in life.

    We also have opportunity to defeat death via the gift of eternal life.

    I John 5:11
    "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have"


    Noone is born without this opportunity of eternal life.

    You may not understand how God provides this opportunity to a baby, a person of severe retardation, a wild tribesman in the darkest jungles.....

    But we can know, that God provides for those who seek Him; and noone is without opportunity; regardless of whether or not you or I understand how or when that opportunity occurs.

    Acts 17:26 "God hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us"

  5. #215
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    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    I selected the first option. However, I'm not a YEC.
    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - unknown

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

  6. #216
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    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    I selected the first option. However, I'm not a YEC.
    That's cool.
    True Truth Exists & Can Be Found.

  7. #217
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    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    God created all, as stated in Genesis; fully formed creations, reproducing after their kind.
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

  8. #218
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    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    God created all, as stated in Genesis; fully formed creations, reproducing after their kind.
    AMEN brother. Hooah!
    True Truth Exists & Can Be Found.

  9. #219

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    I selected the first option. However, I'm not a YEC.
    What are the Biblical reasons, alone, that support a non-YEC position?
    Love first, ... answer questions ... later ...

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