View Poll Results: What Do YOU Believe?

Voters
64. You may not vote on this poll
  • God created all, as stated in Genesis; fully formed creations, reproducing after their kind.

    60 93.75%
  • God created all, using macro-evolution. Simple organisms to man over millions of years.

    3 4.69%
  • Multiple Gods/entities (who we don't know anything about) created everything we see.

    0 0%
  • We were seeded by aliens from another area of the universe or dimension.

    0 0%
  • We don't know what created us and the universe. Some unknown force is behind all reality.

    0 0%
  • I don't know what I believe, I am still on the fence.

    1 1.56%
  • It does not matter what you believe, I don't care.

    0 0%
Page 15 of 18 FirstFirst ... 456789101112131415161718 LastLast
Results 211 to 225 of 266

Thread: What Do YOU Believe?

  1. #211
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,377
    Blog Entries
    26

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    I am guessing you are talking about Genesis 3? If so, satan is a serpent, not necessarily a snake. Serpents in the Bible can be snakes, but also sea serpents like Leviathan. (Job 41) In any case, sure. Whatever the exact form was spoke. That really isn't hard to believe. Balaam's donkey argued with him. The Israelites crossed the Red Sea with a wall of water on both sides of them. Noah built a 450' ark and loaded all the kinds of animals before a worldwide flood. Moses' staff became a snake and then a staff again, as many times as he wanted it to. A talking serpent is no big deal.

    Agree. Great answer Tony.
    “Dispensationalism has thrown down the gauntlet: and it is high time that Covenant theologians take up the challenge and respond Biblically.” – Dr. Robert L. Reymond, author, A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith






    True Truth Exists, & Can Be Found

  2. #212
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    4,664
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo
    #3. Why did God condemn all A&E offspring to the same fate as A&E?
    Because there was, and is, a much bigger plan going on. Satan convinced 1/3 of the angels of heaven to rebel against God. Think about that one. Angels, who knew God, knew heaven, knew of His glory, and still rebelled. How stupid are those angels? The next group, humans, are refined before receiving eternal life.
    So every new born right out the womb gets the death penalty? We are born to die as only security in life. Isn't the death penalty not given in case of guilt, sin? When did the baby sin?

    Don't get me wrong, I am trying to compare the literal interpretation vs the narrative interpretation. Both tell the story how a Holy God deals with sin and the redemption of it, the central theme of the Scriptures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo
    #4. Why does every human not get the same chance as A&E?
    What do you mean? Chance for what, sin or salvation? Everyone gets a fair hearing on judgment day.
    That every new born (like A&E) gets the same chance, put in the garden with the same 2 trees and the warning not to eat from the TOK. No death penalty on beforehand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo
    #5. Why would a person (who never had any say in his birth) suffer in all eternity in hell because he choose to be an unbeliever? Does he has a point by saying, I never was asked to be born?
    This is a good question.
    Thank you, yes it is. It's another point in favor of a narrative. I mean, we believe that God is love and just.

    And there is a 4th observation, God warned warned A&E they would (only) die eating from the TOK. When they did eat God gave them extra punishments as listed in v16-19.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    God is a just judge. He knows what He has done, and is doing. No one, I mean no one, will have anything to complain about on judgment day. Each and every person will have a fair hearing.
    Amen to that.

  3. #213
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,173

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo View Post
    So every new born right out the womb gets the death penalty? We are born to die as only security in life. Isn't the death penalty not given in case of guilt, sin? When did the baby sin?

    Don't get me wrong, I am trying to compare the literal interpretation vs the narrative interpretation. Both tell the story how a Holy God deals with sin and the redemption of it, the central theme of the Scriptures.
    First, sorry for the long delay in responding. I was gone for a couple months and then forgot about this thread.

    No. I don't think a baby is born with the death penalty. No one is held accountable before the age of accountability. By whatever age that is, everyone has probably sinned and needs Jesus. Further, it is my understanding from scripture that Gentiles who do not know the law, are not judged by it.

    God has written at least a portion of His law on every heart. For example, even Gentiles of ancient times knew that murder was a sin. We will be judged based on whether we abide by it.

    That every new born (like A&E) gets the same chance, put in the garden with the same 2 trees and the warning not to eat from the TOK. No death penalty on beforehand.
    Yes, I agree. Deuteronomy 1:39.

    Thank you, yes it is. It's another point in favor of a narrative. I mean, we believe that God is love and just.
    I have to be careful here, but the more I study the Bible the more I am beginning to understand God's mercy. And perhaps we are being to legalistic in our interpretation of John 3:18-20, while skipping verse 17. For example, Israel will be judged by a higher standard than Gentiles because they cannot say they didn't know. Amos 3:2. Yet, the remnant of Israel will be saved anyway when Jesus returns. If Jesus can have mercy on those He set apart for a higher standard, how much more mercy can He have for some us Gentiles that are weak in faith? Remember, Jesus didn't preach one word to any Gentiles. He talked to a few, but no preaching. I won't expand on what that may mean.

    There is a big difference in fearing the Lord and being terrified of the Lord. Terror is for those who reject Jesus outright. For example, the muslims can never be sure of their salvation in Islam outside of dying as a martyr. The real God is not about terror.

    Here is another example of mercy.

    Matthew 21:31 Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said to Him, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you. 32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward relent and believe him.

    Here are self righteous Pharisees, all Jews, who didn't believe in Jesus. This would have been a perfect opportunity to condemn them. Instead, Jesus tells them harlots would enter the kingdom before them. Iow, they are still going to enter the kingdom, just that harlots would beat them to it.

    And there is a 4th observation, God warned warned A&E they would (only) die eating from the TOK. When they did eat God gave them extra punishments as listed in v16-19.
    I don't recall God saying they would "only" die. Just that they would surely die in the day they ate the fruit. That doesn't rule out additional hardships until the sentence is carried out. It is possible A&E were told about these as well and it just wasn't recorded.

  4. #214
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,160

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo View Post
    So every new born right out the womb gets the death penalty? We are born to die as only security in life. Isn't the death penalty not given in case of guilt, sin? When did the baby sin?
    The creation is cursed, so yes, we are all born to die.

    Death is a result of the cursed creation.

    Death is a given, but it is not our only security in life.

    We also have opportunity to defeat death via the gift of eternal life.

    I John 5:11
    "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have"


    Noone is born without this opportunity of eternal life.

    You may not understand how God provides this opportunity to a baby, a person of severe retardation, a wild tribesman in the darkest jungles.....

    But we can know, that God provides for those who seek Him; and noone is without opportunity; regardless of whether or not you or I understand how or when that opportunity occurs.

    Acts 17:26 "God hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us"

  5. #215
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Dwight, IL
    Posts
    4,806
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    I selected the first option. However, I'm not a YEC.

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

  6. #216
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,377
    Blog Entries
    26

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    I selected the first option. However, I'm not a YEC.
    That's cool.
    “Dispensationalism has thrown down the gauntlet: and it is high time that Covenant theologians take up the challenge and respond Biblically.” – Dr. Robert L. Reymond, author, A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith






    True Truth Exists, & Can Be Found

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    In the Midwest.
    Posts
    5,560

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    God created all, as stated in Genesis; fully formed creations, reproducing after their kind.
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

  8. #218
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,377
    Blog Entries
    26

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    God created all, as stated in Genesis; fully formed creations, reproducing after their kind.
    AMEN brother. Hooah!
    “Dispensationalism has thrown down the gauntlet: and it is high time that Covenant theologians take up the challenge and respond Biblically.” – Dr. Robert L. Reymond, author, A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith






    True Truth Exists, & Can Be Found

  9. #219

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    I selected the first option. However, I'm not a YEC.
    What are the Biblical reasons, alone, that support a non-YEC position?
    “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
    that we may observe all the words of this law."
    Deuteronomy 29:29

  10. #220
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Dwight, IL
    Posts
    4,806
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelog View Post
    What are the Biblical reasons, alone, that support a non-YEC position?
    Why do you ask it that way? God has given two different forms of revelation: special revelation and general revelation. God expects us to use all of our minds applied to both. Why narrow it down the special revelation only? Why not narrow it more? Why not ask "What reasons does 3 John alone that support one view or another of creation?"

    I think the problem with YEC is that the goal is to elicit an answer to a question Scripture isn't trying to answer. God, in Scripture, is not attempting to answer the question, "How old is the earth or the universe?"

    In Scripture, God is answering more important questions. The Scripture tells us primary answers such as who God is and how are we justified and how now shall we live.

    Genesis was written by Moses. The Jews had been led out of
    Egypt. Moses was teaching them about the God who brought them out. He was exposing the Egyptian gods for the false gods they were. How long ago God created the universe was not an important detail for their needs at that time.

    Scripture tells us God created ex nihilo. It is not as interested in when as the YEC movement would have us believe.

    Things that really matter are that:

    Jesus was raised bodily from the grave
    We are justified through faith in Jesus' substitutionary atonement
    The Scripture is truly the Word of God that is given to us as our sole infallible source for faith and practice
    Jesus was virgin born and is truly man
    Jesus is truly God
    God is a Trinity
    Jesus is coming again to establish his reign

    Age of the universe is small potatoes. It's too bad ministries major in that minor instead of majoring in the majors that I just listed.

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

  11. #221
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    True north strong and free
    Posts
    6,186

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TrustGzus again.
    It is only the cynic who claims “to speak the truth” at all times and in all places to all men in the same way, but who, in fact, displays nothing but a lifeless image of the truth… He dons the halo of the fanatical devotee of truth who can make no allowance for human weaknesses; but, in fact, he is destroying the living truth between men. He wounds shame, desecrates mystery, breaks confidence, betrays the community in which he lives, and laughs arrogantly at the devastation he has wrought and at the human weakness which “cannot bear the truth”. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, in Ethics.


  12. #222
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    2,377
    Blog Entries
    26

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    Why do you ask it that way? God has given two different forms of revelation: special revelation and general revelation. God expects us to use all of our minds applied to both. Why narrow it down the special revelation only? Why not narrow it more? Why not ask "What reasons does 3 John alone that support one view or another of creation?"
    **Hi TrustGzus, you raise some excellent points brother, if I may, allow me to explain why it is important.

    Totally agree. However your point cuts both ways. Who says we are using special revelation only? We have tremendous empirical evidence for a recent Creation, recent mankind, and that mankind lived and walked with dinosaurs. ( We still do walk with them today!) Why complicate things with myths of men? There is evidence for what Genesis describes. From talking animals to a global flood.

    I think the problem with YEC is that the goal is to elicit an answer to a question Scripture isn't trying to answer. God, in Scripture, is not attempting to answer the question, "How old is the earth or the universe?"
    No dear friend, we are not wringing out, that which is not there. Scripture clearly makes the case itself, no need to make it say things that it does not. Over and over a recent creation, recent mankind and ALL creatures of the earth are implied both directly and indirectly ( using logic and reason as well) WE are just saying that there is no need to resort to the myths of men, when Gods revelation is good enough to answer the issues.

    In Scripture, God is answering more important questions. The Scripture tells us primary answers such as who God is and how are we justified and how now shall we live.
    Totally agree. However, denying/ignoring the accuracy of Genesis [ real history ] ( ie a global flood) carries some very important ramifications. To the evolutionist or seeker rendering Genesis to the myth pile, guts the whole Bible. For example, if we can't trust that God made a real man and woman in real history and that their first act of disobedience carried with it our fate for eternity why bother with the Gospel? Maybe for you and I this issue not important, but for many it is! Defending the accuracy of the very first book of the Bible is a big deal brother!

    Genesis was written by Moses. The Jews had been led out of
    Egypt. Moses was teaching them about the God who brought them out. He was exposing the Egyptian gods for the false gods they were. How long ago God created the universe was not an important detail for their needs at that time.
    Agree. To them, the Genesis account was real history, they never questioned it. Today, evolution/ has gutted untold numbers faith in the Bible. Long ages forced on the text wreak havoc in some circles when trying to reach the perishing.

    Scripture tells us God created ex nihilo. It is not as interested in when as the YEC movement would have us believe.
    I agree, ex nihilo! The yec "movement" has been around since Adam and Noah, as scripture clearly paints this picture. Scripture started this, not the yec movement. All we are doing is defending this position, not unlike how a Amillennialist or a partial prederist would defend their position.

    Things that really matter are that:

    Jesus was raised bodily from the grave
    We are justified through faith in Jesus' substitutionary atonement
    The Scripture is truly the Word of God that is given to us as our sole infallible source for faith and practice
    Jesus was virgin born and is truly man
    Jesus is truly God
    God is a Trinity
    Jesus is coming again to establish his reign
    Agree, these things are important; & for many, enough! But what if someone will not even entertain these important things you mentioned, as, Genesis is a book of myths and errors [ no real global flood ] or our "sin" is really not real, ( Two people ate an apple?? Really? This is why we are in this mess? )

    Age of the universe is small potatoes. It's too bad ministries major in that minor instead of majoring in the majors that I just listed.
    The actual age, I agree is not important; we will not know the exact age this side of Heaven, but scripture gives us enough clues and assertions as to know roughly where we are. And when one sees the scientific evidence that SUPPORTS this conclusion, things get even clearer! We are young as Genesis paints. Everyone has different majors and minors, but I generally agree with you.

    Peace bother!
    Last edited by bluesky22; Jan 20th 2017 at 12:09 AM. Reason: clarity
    “Dispensationalism has thrown down the gauntlet: and it is high time that Covenant theologians take up the challenge and respond Biblically.” – Dr. Robert L. Reymond, author, A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith






    True Truth Exists, & Can Be Found

  13. #223

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    Why do you ask it that way? ... I think the problem with YEC is that the goal is to elicit an answer to a question Scripture isn't trying to answer. God, in Scripture, is not attempting to answer the question, "How old is the earth or the universe?"
    Where does it say that in Scripture?
    “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
    that we may observe all the words of this law."
    Deuteronomy 29:29

  14. #224
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    12,802

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelog View Post
    Where does it say that in Scripture?
    It doesn't, which is the point.

  15. #225

    Re: What Do YOU Believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    It doesn't, which is the point.
    And mine as well. Lol.
    “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
    that we may observe all the words of this law."
    Deuteronomy 29:29

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •