Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 36

Thread: Gog and Magog

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    15,108

    Gog and Magog

    What are the top 2 or 3 belief systems concerning who and what and where Gog and Magog are?

    Thanks
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durban ,South Africa
    Posts
    7,080

    Re: Gog and Magog

    According to Ezekiel 38:2-3 Gog is mentioned twice as "chief prince", yet does not seem to be a specific human ruler. It appears Gog is the ruling spirit over a region.

    This region that Gog rules over is described as the "land of Magog", and also "Meshek and Tubal". Togarmah and Gomer are also mentioned as grouped with these attacking armies. ALL of these regions are more commonly associated with Turkey than any other country. Some historical maps include Georgia and Southern Russia in that list of countries, associating Magog and Togarmah with Russia rather than Turkey.

    I associate the Joel 2 attack with the Ezekiel 38/39 attack, both resulting in the repentance and restoration of Israel. Ezekiel 38:6, 38:15 and 39:2 describes this army as coming from the FAR NORTH, which seems like Russia rather than Turkey. Joel 2 describes the Northern army attacking Israel.

    On the balance of logic, I would say the main areas are definitely Turkey, but the doubt surrounding some areas and the involvement of the Far North would also point to Russia. Turkey will be a major player according to some other prophecies too, and so a Turkish/Russian alliance looks like a strong possibility.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,173

    Re: Gog and Magog

    To understand Gog from Magog, we first have to understand the book of Esther. Yes, Esther. It is the foreshadow of the one coming. In Esther, a man named Hamon the Gogite gets permission from the king to kill every single Jew in the world on a set day. In the end, the entire plan is reversed and the Jews kill Hamon and all their enemies, about 75,000 of them. (Your version may spell Gogite as Agagite. The "A" in Hebrew is silent.)

    How do I know Gog is a repeat from the book of Esther? Hamon the Gogite and the valley of Hamon-Gog.

    Ezekiel 39:15 The search party will pass through the land; and when anyone sees a man’s bone, he shall set up a marker by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog.

    In Ezekiel, chapter 38 and 39 are separate prophecies. Chapter 38 comes at the end of the Millennium as recorded in Revelation 20. Chapter 39 occurs at the very end of the bowls of wrath in Revelation 16. All the armies of the earth are gathered against the elect that have already been gathered to kill them all. Then Jesus unleashes the hail, fire, etc on them and comes on the white horse to crush them. Then the elect get to take revenge on all those who persecuted them. Just like in Esther.

    Gog is satan who is bound for the Millennium to be released again at the end. That is why there are two Gog/Magog prophecies. The war of Gog, the battle of Armageddon is the very last thing to occur before the judgment of the Gentiles in Matt 25 and the 1000 years of peace. The date for this battle is already set in the OT. Purim celebrates the day after the battle, which is Adar 13. Jesus returns to gather the elect on Tisrhi 1, shows them His wounds and they mourn on Tishri 10. Then Jesus speaks with them gently in the wilderness (Ezekiel) during tabernacles. Then Jesus is caught up the heaven to cast out satan, Rev 12. There are exactly 1260 days between the end of Tabernacles and Adar 13 on most leap years.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,181
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Got and magog are the two beasts in Rev 13

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    15,108

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Thank you all for your answers. I really appreciate the time you took to respond and the posts that you wrote.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    5,527
    Blog Entries
    34

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    To understand Gog from Magog, we first have to understand the book of Esther. Yes, Esther. It is the foreshadow of the one coming. In Esther, a man named Hamon the Gogite gets permission from the king to kill every single Jew in the world on a set day. In the end, the entire plan is reversed and the Jews kill Hamon and all their enemies, about 75,000 of them. (Your version may spell Gogite as Agagite. The "A" in Hebrew is silent.)

    How do I know Gog is a repeat from the book of Esther? Hamon the Gogite and the valley of Hamon-Gog.

    Ezekiel 39:15 The search party will pass through the land; and when anyone sees a mans bone, he shall set up a marker by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog.

    In Ezekiel, chapter 38 and 39 are separate prophecies. Chapter 38 comes at the end of the Millennium as recorded in Revelation 20. Chapter 39 occurs at the very end of the bowls of wrath in Revelation 16. All the armies of the earth are gathered against the elect that have already been gathered to kill them all. Then Jesus unleashes the hail, fire, etc on them and comes on the white horse to crush them. Then the elect get to take revenge on all those who persecuted them. Just like in Esther.

    Gog is satan who is bound for the Millennium to be released again at the end. That is why there are two Gog/Magog prophecies. The war of Gog, the battle of Armageddon is the very last thing to occur before the judgment of the Gentiles in Matt 25 and the 1000 years of peace. The date for this battle is already set in the OT. Purim celebrates the day after the battle, which is Adar 13. Jesus returns to gather the elect on Tisrhi 1, shows them His wounds and they mourn on Tishri 10. Then Jesus speaks with them gently in the wilderness (Ezekiel) during tabernacles. Then Jesus is caught up the heaven to cast out satan, Rev 12. There are exactly 1260 days between the end of Tabernacles and Adar 13 on most leap years.
    Wow. Okay. How did you come up with this, or did you read it in a book? I ask because during my studies of the "Day of the Lord" I came to a similar conclusion, except for the dates and the close association with the Gog/Magog prophecy, both are a weakness in my understanding. I have not studied Ezekiel 38 and 39 at length and for myself, so I am fascinated by your explanation. Also, I don't fully grasp the relevance of special days on the Jewish calendar.

    What I do know, I think, is that Jesus meets with Israel face to face, as you describe (I think they assemble on or near the Mount of Olives) and I also discovered the relationship between Hamon-Gog and Armageddon through the prophet Zachariah.

    Very interesting.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,725
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    To understand Gog from Magog, we first have to understand the book of Esther. Yes, Esther. It is the foreshadow of the one coming. In Esther, a man named Hamon the Gogite gets permission from the king to kill every single Jew in the world on a set day. In the end, the entire plan is reversed and the Jews kill Hamon and all their enemies, about 75,000 of them. (Your version may spell Gogite as Agagite. The "A" in Hebrew is silent.)

    How do I know Gog is a repeat from the book of Esther? Hamon the Gogite and the valley of Hamon-Gog.

    [...]
    I think you are mixing up things here. What you call Hamon the Gogite is actually Haman the Agagite , from Agag as mentioned in 1 Sam. 15:8:

    And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.

    Haman the Agagite is a descended of kings of the Amalekites. Your explanation of Hamon Gog is also not correct, the Hebrew word Hamon means multitude . It is also used in Songs of Salomon:

    8:11 Solomon had a vineyard at Baalhamon (Literally: multitude of Baal or possessor of abundance); he let out the vineyard unto keepers; every one for the fruit thereof was to bring a thousand pieces of silver.

    Hamon is Strong's number H1995: and is translated as: a noise, tumult, crowd; also disquietude, wealth: - abundance, company, many, multitude, multiply, noise, riches, rumbling, sounding, store, tumult.

    Aristarkos

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    In His Service
    Posts
    3,035

    Re: Gog and Magog

    In the 70's and 80's people thought it was somewhere in the neighborhood of Russia now some say its Turkey because of the islamic connection?


    Jude
    The Church right now has more fashion than passion, is more pathetic than prophetic, is more superficial than supernatural.

    ~ Leonard Ravenhill


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    8,442
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    I think you are mixing up things here. What you call Hamon the Gogite is actually Haman the Agagite , from Agag as mentioned in 1 Sam. 15:8:

    And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.

    Haman the Agagite is a descended of kings of the Amalekites. Your explanation of Hamon Gog is also not correct, the Hebrew word Hamon means multitude . It is also used in Songs of Salomon:

    8:11 Solomon had a vineyard at Baalhamon (Literally: multitude of Baal or possessor of abundance); he let out the vineyard unto keepers; every one for the fruit thereof was to bring a thousand pieces of silver.

    Hamon is Strong's number H1995: and is translated as: a noise, tumult, crowd; also disquietude, wealth: - abundance, company, many, multitude, multiply, noise, riches, rumbling, sounding, store, tumult.

    Aristarkos
    Well stated, some claim that the Hebrew has been incorrectly copied and that the two words are so similar etc.
    Some even claim that Ezekiel is prophesying what happens in Esther.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    9,047
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    I think you are mixing up things here. What you call Hamon the Gogite is actually Haman the Agagite , from Agag as mentioned in 1 Sam. 15:8:

    And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.

    Haman the Agagite is a descended of kings of the Amalekites. Your explanation of Hamon Gog is also not correct, the Hebrew word Hamon means multitude . It is also used in Songs of Salomon:

    8:11 Solomon had a vineyard at Baalhamon (Literally: multitude of Baal or possessor of abundance); he let out the vineyard unto keepers; every one for the fruit thereof was to bring a thousand pieces of silver.

    Hamon is Strong's number H1995: and is translated as: a noise, tumult, crowd; also disquietude, wealth: - abundance, company, many, multitude, multiply, noise, riches, rumbling, sounding, store, tumult.

    Aristarkos
    Right on the mark brother,
    2 Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    ADELAIDE / South Australia
    Posts
    3,476

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    In the 70's and 80's people thought it was somewhere in the neighborhood of Russia now some say its Turkey because of the islamic connection?


    Jude
    In the first century they believed gog and magog was situated in the 4 corners of the earth.. Rev 20.

    All the nations that come against Gods people are found in the table of nations in Gen 10 . God and the chosen have enemies everywhere.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Maine, USA
    Posts
    3,172
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Gog and Magog doesn't happen until near the end of the thousand year millennial reign of Jesus as per Revelation ch20.
    John 10 (KJV)
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,173

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceegen View Post
    Gog and Magog doesn't happen until near the end of the thousand year millennial reign of Jesus as per Revelation ch20.
    You are right. But, that is the second Gog Magog. Ezekiel 38 and 39 are two different prophecies. Remember, satan gets released at the end of the Millennium to deceive the nations one last time.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,173

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    Wow. Okay. How did you come up with this, or did you read it in a book? I ask because during my studies of the "Day of the Lord" I came to a similar conclusion, except for the dates and the close association with the Gog/Magog prophecy, both are a weakness in my understanding. I have not studied Ezekiel 38 and 39 at length and for myself, so I am fascinated by your explanation. Also, I don't fully grasp the relevance of special days on the Jewish calendar.

    What I do know, I think, is that Jesus meets with Israel face to face, as you describe (I think they assemble on or near the Mount of Olives) and I also discovered the relationship between Hamon-Gog and Armageddon through the prophet Zachariah.

    Very interesting.
    I appreciate it. I'll try to explain, without going too much into the overall timing. I'll try to keep it focused. No, I didn't get the idea in a book. All I can say really is God answers pray for understanding.

    I agree with you on Hamon-Gog and Armageddon. Gog from Magog war is the war of Armageddon, no doubt. We also can be confident of when Gog/Armageddon war comes. It comes at the 7th bowl of wrath in Rev 16. The 6th and 7th bowls are directly related to this last war.

    I am also convinced that Ezekiel 38 and 39 are two distinct prophecies. Ezekiel 39 coming first at the beginning of the 1000 years, and 38 coming when satan is released again in Rev 20:8. There are several reasons for understanding them separately. For example: One, each chapter begins as if it is a new story. Two, there is no burial of the dead in 38. That is because the GWTJ and NHNE come at that time. No need to cleanse this earth. Three, in 39 they burn the wooden weapons for 7 years. That pretty much means it can only occur at the beginning of the Millennium, not the end. No one is sticking around after that point. Four, 39:4 tells us the birds will eat their flesh when the fall. Just like Rev 19:17-18.... Etc.

    The Jewish calendar. You may already know that the Jewish feast days, or holidays, are not actually feasts and holidays. In the Hebrew, the word means "appointed time/s." Moses killed the Passover lamb in the afternoon of Nisan 14. Just as Jesus died in the afternoon of Nisan 14. The feast/appointed time of weeks is the day of Pentecost. God set His appointed times long ago and gave them to us. All we need to understand is they apply to Jesus and sets the exact dates in which future events will happen. Of course, we do not know the year. But, we do know the dates.

    Purim is celebrated on Adar 14-15 to set the appointed time of Gog Magog. It is the very same story that will unfold. Virtually every historical account in the OT is a foreshadow of something future. For example: Moses and Aaron and the Egyptian priests both caused water the turn into blood and made their staffs turn into serpents. This is a foreshadow of the two witnesses and the son of perdition, which operate at the same time. Both of which will call fire down from heaven. Esther and Armageddon is no different. When He showed me that, I was floored for a while.

    Read Esther and you will have a great understanding of Armageddon. Hamon got the king to agree to let him kill every last Jew in the world. But, the exact opposite ends up happening. The Jews kill all their enemies instead. Notice that both in Esther and Armageddon, fear falls upon the enemies and they are powerless. This is exactly how Armageddon will play out. When all the world's armies in valley of Megiddo to attack all the previously gathered elect in the wilderness of Moab, Jesus comes on the white horse and the whole plan gets reversed.

    You are absolutely right about Jesus meeting them face to face in the wilderness. Ezekiel 20 explains this very well. It's a beautiful chapter that is to come. Btw, the wilderness, in Rev 12, where the elect are gathered when Jesus comes in the clouds of heaven is in Moab, southern Jordan. Isaiah 16:1-4 tells directly what happens when Jesus returns at the 7th trumpet to gather the elect. They are taken to Moab. The appointed time for this face to face meeting in the wilderness is Tabernacles. Right after the Day of Atonement when they mourn for Him whom they pierced.

    I probably opened a can of worms as to the overall timing here. Most people think Jesus' coming is a single event, or two events. Either a single rapture/return, or a rapture, then a return later. However, Revelation makes it plain that there are three events to His coming. In fact, Jesus Himself tells us there are three "watches" in Luke 12:35-38, and only those who go in the first watch go to the wedding. Three watches. A rapture, a return in the clouds to gather the elect, and a return on the white horse. Three separate watches. The rapture may be difficult to know. The other two watches are easy. One is 1290 days from the AoD, the 7th trumpet. (Daniel 12) The other is Adar 13, exactly 1260 days after Jesus is caught up the heaven to cast out satan in Rev 12, at the end of Tabernacles. Yes, the entire 1260 days of the beast come after Jesus has already gathered the elect into one place and protects them by a wall of fire. The beast is not the AC. This is where so many fail to see. I'll leave it there for now.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    5,527
    Blog Entries
    34

    Re: Gog and Magog

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    I appreciate it. I'll try to explain, without going too much into the overall timing. I'll try to keep it focused. No, I didn't get the idea in a book. All I can say really is God answers pray for understanding.

    I agree with you on Hamon-Gog and Armageddon. Gog from Magog war is the war of Armageddon, no doubt. We also can be confident of when Gog/Armageddon war comes. It comes at the 7th bowl of wrath in Rev 16. The 6th and 7th bowls are directly related to this last war.

    I am also convinced that Ezekiel 38 and 39 are two distinct prophecies. Ezekiel 39 coming first at the beginning of the 1000 years, and 38 coming when satan is released again in Rev 20:8. There are several reasons for understanding them separately. For example: One, each chapter begins as if it is a new story. Two, there is no burial of the dead in 38. That is because the GWTJ and NHNE come at that time. No need to cleanse this earth. Three, in 39 they burn the wooden weapons for 7 years. That pretty much means it can only occur at the beginning of the Millennium, not the end. No one is sticking around after that point. Four, 39:4 tells us the birds will eat their flesh when the fall. Just like Rev 19:17-18.... Etc.

    The Jewish calendar. You may already know that the Jewish feast days, or holidays, are not actually feasts and holidays. In the Hebrew, the word means "appointed time/s." Moses killed the Passover lamb in the afternoon of Nisan 14. Just as Jesus died in the afternoon of Nisan 14. The feast/appointed time of weeks is the day of Pentecost. God set His appointed times long ago and gave them to us. All we need to understand is they apply to Jesus and sets the exact dates in which future events will happen. Of course, we do not know the year. But, we do know the dates.

    Purim is celebrated on Adar 14-15 to set the appointed time of Gog Magog. It is the very same story that will unfold. Virtually every historical account in the OT is a foreshadow of something future. For example: Moses and Aaron and the Egyptian priests both caused water the turn into blood and made their staffs turn into serpents. This is a foreshadow of the two witnesses and the son of perdition, which operate at the same time. Both of which will call fire down from heaven. Esther and Armageddon is no different. When He showed me that, I was floored for a while.

    Read Esther and you will have a great understanding of Armageddon. Hamon got the king to agree to let him kill every last Jew in the world. But, the exact opposite ends up happening. The Jews kill all their enemies instead. Notice that both in Esther and Armageddon, fear falls upon the enemies and they are powerless. This is exactly how Armageddon will play out. When all the world's armies in valley of Megiddo to attack all the previously gathered elect in the wilderness of Moab, Jesus comes on the white horse and the whole plan gets reversed.

    You are absolutely right about Jesus meeting them face to face in the wilderness. Ezekiel 20 explains this very well. It's a beautiful chapter that is to come. Btw, the wilderness, in Rev 12, where the elect are gathered when Jesus comes in the clouds of heaven is in Moab, southern Jordan. Isaiah 16:1-4 tells directly what happens when Jesus returns at the 7th trumpet to gather the elect. They are taken to Moab. The appointed time for this face to face meeting in the wilderness is Tabernacles. Right after the Day of Atonement when they mourn for Him whom they pierced.

    I probably opened a can of worms as to the overall timing here. Most people think Jesus' coming is a single event, or two events. Either a single rapture/return, or a rapture, then a return later. However, Revelation makes it plain that there are three events to His coming. In fact, Jesus Himself tells us there are three "watches" in Luke 12:35-38, and only those who go in the first watch go to the wedding. Three watches. A rapture, a return in the clouds to gather the elect, and a return on the white horse. Three separate watches. The rapture may be difficult to know. The other two watches are easy. One is 1290 days from the AoD, the 7th trumpet. (Daniel 12) The other is Adar 13, exactly 1260 days after Jesus is caught up the heaven to cast out satan in Rev 12, at the end of Tabernacles. Yes, the entire 1260 days of the beast come after Jesus has already gathered the elect into one place and protects them by a wall of fire. The beast is not the AC. This is where so many fail to see. I'll leave it there for now.
    Thanks for that. I just read this over and I see that I have much more to learn. Since you have studied this aspect, I would like your brief comments on the following passage from my paper. I began a study on "The Day of the Lord" and I have concluded, as you did, that Jesus' coming is not a single event. So I would be interested in your comments on this passage from my paper.

    ***Beginning of section

    The word “Armageddon” comes from the Greek, which is a transliteration of the Hebrew word “Har-Magedon” or “the mountain of Megiddo,” which the lexicon says is a mountain of uncertain origin. But here, the mountain isn’t a literal mountain, the term symbolically refers to a kingdom or an empire (mountain), located in the valley of Megiddo. The concept of “the mountain” also calls to mind the “high places”, which were used for idolatrous worship, the bible often speaking about men who retreated to the “high places” to worship idols including Moloch, Baal, and the Sun, Moon, and Stars. i Megiddo is the plain where the final Seleucid King will set up his royal pavilion, but symbolically the plain of Megiddo is the “high place” where people will worship the final and ultimate idol.
    Zechariah records a time of mourning for Israel. “On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.” Scholars debate over this verse, some supposing that it speaks of the death of Josiah, who died on the plains of Megiddo ii resulting in mourning, not from the people only but from the prophet Jeremiah also. Others suppose that the reference to Hadad Rimmon refers to Tammuz, a Phoenician god. iii “The Babylonians marked the decline in daylight hours and the onset of killing summer heat and drought with a six-day "funeral" for the god.” iv*And thus the people would mourn for the death of Tammuz.
    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, based on the fact that prophets often combine two or more images to create a new image. Josiah was a good king, tearing down the high places of Israel, wiping out the places where idolatry was practiced, and after he died on the plain of Megiddo, the people mourned for him. Some of those in Israel were also mourning for Tammuz and the rest of the idols, which Josiah destroyed.
    In the future, on the edge of utter destruction, when Israel is facing an insurmountable existential threat from a man who claims to be god, camped out on the plain of Megiddo where their champion against idolatry, King Josiah died, the entire nation weeps prayers of supplication. v It would be fitting then, if another king of Israel (Jesus Christ) were to defeat the epitome of idolatry itself on the plains of Megiddo, the very spot where Josiah attempted to do the same thing.

    ***End of Section

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Bespreking Gog & Magog
    By Ta-An in forum Gesprek oor die Eindtye en Aktuele sake
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Mar 15th 2011, 08:51 AM
  2. Who are Gog and Magog?
    By decrumpit in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: Mar 7th 2011, 01:07 PM
  3. Gog and Magog
    By Fenris in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 123
    Last Post: Oct 7th 2010, 12:39 PM
  4. Discussion Gog and Magog war?
    By wesand24 in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: Oct 20th 2008, 01:02 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •