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Thread: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

  1. #1
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    The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Revelation 8:13 And I looked, and I heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, “Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound!”

    9:1 Then the fifth angel sounded:...5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months....12 One woe is past. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.

    9:13 Then the sixth angel sounded:...3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”...14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

    15 Then the seventh angel sounded:...6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

    Just these three things alone take more than 7 years. They cannot overlap as it is clearly written that one is finished before the next one begins. We have 7 years and 5 months here, before adding in any time for the 200 million man army in the 6th trumpet. Nor is there time for any of the seals or the first four trumpets. Nor is there any time for the bowls of wrath. Although, they could be poured out during the 1260 days of the beast.

    The 7 year trib theory just doesn't add up. It isn't even possible really.

    For those who realize Daniel 7, 8, 10-12 is indeed the time of the end as stated multiple times, there is also no way to force all of Daniel 11 into 7 years. It doesn't add up. Further, for those who realize the Olivet discourse is of the post-rapture period, it is difficult to force all that into 7 years as well.


    Actually, the total time "of the end" is a full Jubilee cycle of 49 years. That is why the 7 and 62 weeks in Daniel 9 are subdivided. Here is a very brief run down of why. Read Jeremiah 1 very carefully and you will see that the first 20 chapters were all given in a single year. The 13th year of Josiah, 623 BC, the 66th Jubilee year from creation. The first 20 chapters of Jeremiah describe the post-rapture period. After the world witnesses the very visible rapture, Israel will say this:

    Jeremiah 5:12 They have lied about the Lord, And said, “It is not He. Neither will evil come upon us, Nor shall we see sword or famine.

    The very next Jubilee year, in 574 BC, Ezekiel is given the vision of the Millennial temple. He is given the vision exactly on the day of Jubilee, Tishri 10.

    Jeremiah is given the time of Jacob's trouble, which begins in one Jubilee, and Ezekiel is given the Millennial vision in the very next Jubilee. Nowhere in the Bible does it tell us to stop counting the Jubilees. The 120th Jubilee year from creation is from Tishri 10, 2024 to Nisan 1, 2025. Three days after the end of that year is the beginning of Jacob's trouble, as I understand it. The tribulation period lasts a full 49 years. Pray always that we are counted worthy to escape all these things.

  2. #2

    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Revelation 8:13 And I looked, and I heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, “Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound!”

    9:1 Then the fifth angel sounded:...5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months....12 One woe is past. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.

    9:13 Then the sixth angel sounded:...3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”...14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

    15 Then the seventh angel sounded:...6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

    Just these three things alone take more than 7 years. They cannot overlap as it is clearly written that one is finished before the next one begins. We have 7 years and 5 months here, before adding in any time for the 200 million man army in the 6th trumpet. Nor is there time for any of the seals or the first four trumpets. Nor is there any time for the bowls of wrath. Although, they could be poured out during the 1260 days of the beast.

    The 7 year trib theory just doesn't add up. It isn't even possible really.

    For those who realize Daniel 7, 8, 10-12 is indeed the time of the end as stated multiple times, there is also no way to force all of Daniel 11 into 7 years. It doesn't add up. Further, for those who realize the Olivet discourse is of the post-rapture period, it is difficult to force all that into 7 years as well.


    Actually, the total time "of the end" is a full Jubilee cycle of 49 years. That is why the 7 and 62 weeks in Daniel 9 are subdivided. Here is a very brief run down of why. Read Jeremiah 1 very carefully and you will see that the first 20 chapters were all given in a single year. The 13th year of Josiah, 623 BC, the 66th Jubilee year from creation. The first 20 chapters of Jeremiah describe the post-rapture period. After the world witnesses the very visible rapture, Israel will say this:

    Jeremiah 5:12 They have lied about the Lord, And said, “It is not He. Neither will evil come upon us, Nor shall we see sword or famine.

    The very next Jubilee year, in 574 BC, Ezekiel is given the vision of the Millennial temple. He is given the vision exactly on the day of Jubilee, Tishri 10.

    Jeremiah is given the time of Jacob's trouble, which begins in one Jubilee, and Ezekiel is given the Millennial vision in the very next Jubilee. Nowhere in the Bible does it tell us to stop counting the Jubilees. The 120th Jubilee year from creation is from Tishri 10, 2024 to Nisan 1, 2025. Three days after the end of that year is the beginning of Jacob's trouble, as I understand it. The tribulation period lasts a full 49 years. Pray always that we are counted worthy to escape all these things.
    Incorrect you just seem to be adding Revelations 12:5 to the time given in Revelations 9 & 11, there is no trumpets after the 7th one is blown. IOW the events in Revelations 12 to not continue the timeline started in Revelations 4-11(events in heaven), but instead starts a whole new time line (on earth). IN which we get 1260 days then time times and half a time. This comes close to 7 years. so this mathematical impossibility is only your own misunderstanding

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    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Incorrect you just seem to be adding Revelations 12:5 to the time given in Revelations 9 & 11, there is no trumpets after the 7th one is blown. IOW the events in Revelations 12 to not continue the timeline started in Revelations 4-11(events in heaven), but instead starts a whole new time line (on earth). IN which we get 1260 days then time times and half a time. This comes close to 7 years. so this mathematical impossibility is only your own misunderstanding
    You have to reject the clear statements of each Woe being past before the next one begins in order to combine timelines. Rejecting verses will never work.

  4. #4

    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    You have to reject the clear statements of each Woe being past before the next one begins in order to combine timelines. Rejecting verses will never work.
    I honestly have no idea what your talking about the 7th trumpet doesn't have a woe being mentioned after it starts nor does the passage mention when the third woe ends so i'm not sure what rejecting your mentioning.

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    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
    What are you even talking about I am confused ? The book of Revelation IS NOT IN Chronological order, and much of Revelation OVERLAPS !!

    As a matter of fact the Two-witnesses only show up a few months before the Abomination of Desolation to turn Israel back unto God/Jesus, then when the AoD happens they flee unto the Wilderness........That is what is spoken of in Rev. 12 when it says the WOMAN Flees to the Wilderness. They are in the Wilderness while the Two Witnesses remain in Jerusalem witnessing for the rest of their 1260 days. We only have a few months over-lap on this 1260 day period. Likewise the Beast has power over the Saints for 42 months, the same 1260 days, except the Beast is around for the 3rd Woe or Vials of Gods Wrath, whereas the Two-Witnesses die right before the 3rd Woe and are raised up to Heaven. This means they come to Jerusalem a month or two before the Abomination of Desolation, since the BEASTS 1260 days (42 months) starts when he conquers Jerusalem.

    You have to see the book of Revelation for what it is, a book in which much of it overlaps other parts. For instance, Revelation 19 is happening for the full 7 Years.

    God Bless All

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    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    I honestly have no idea what your talking about the 7th trumpet doesn't have a woe being mentioned after it starts nor does the passage mention when the third woe ends so i'm not sure what rejecting your mentioning.
    It does indeed. Remember the chapter breaks were added later.

    Revelation 11:12 And they [2W] heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

    At this point, the 2W have finished their 1260 days of testimony, been killed for 3.5 days, and been resurrected and ascend into heaven. The is the end of the 2nd woe. The third woe is coming quickly. This means the entire third woe comes after the second woe is finished. The third woe:

    Revelation 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.... 12... Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

    The third woe is satan being cast to the earth. As you know, satan gives his power to the beast. The 1260 days of the beast, empowered by satan, is the third woe. Based on Rev 11:14 above, this 1260 days cannot overlap the 1260 days of the 2W. Each are independent of one another. The 2W first, then the beast. These two time periods alone equal 7 years. Before we even get to any other seals, trumpets, or bowls. Let alone is there is any amount of time between events. Add in the 5 months of the 5th trumpet and the 7 year theory crumbles. Those who get left behind are in for a lot more than 7 years of tribulation.

  7. #7

    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    It does indeed. Remember the chapter breaks were added later.

    Revelation 11:12 And they [2W] heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

    At this point, the 2W have finished their 1260 days of testimony, been killed for 3.5 days, and been resurrected and ascend into heaven. The is the end of the 2nd woe. The third woe is coming quickly. This means the entire third woe comes after the second woe is finished. The third woe:

    Revelation 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.... 12... Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

    The third woe is satan being cast to the earth. As you know, satan gives his power to the beast. The 1260 days of the beast, empowered by satan, is the third woe. Based on Rev 11:14 above, this 1260 days cannot overlap the 1260 days of the 2W. Each are independent of one another. The 2W first, then the beast. These two time periods alone equal 7 years. Before we even get to any other seals, trumpets, or bowls. Let alone is there is any amount of time between events. Add in the 5 months of the 5th trumpet and the 7 year theory crumbles. Those who get left behind are in for a lot more than 7 years of tribulation.
    No the third woe is not Satan being cast to earth, you follow the same logic that forhisglory does and its false. The bible clearly says the Woes are tied to the trumpets. And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    When the third Angel sounds these are the events And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

    17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

    18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    No mention of Satan falling no mention of rising the beast none of that this whole belief that Satan falling to earth is the third woe is false. The third woe is connected to the trumpet not the voice saying woe!!

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    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
    The Third Woe is ALL SEVEN of the Vials.

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    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    No the third woe is not Satan being cast to earth, you follow the same logic that forhisglory does and its false. The bible clearly says the Woes are tied to the trumpets. And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    When the third Angel sounds these are the events And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

    17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

    18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    No mention of Satan falling no mention of rising the beast none of that this whole belief that Satan falling to earth is the third woe is false. The third woe is connected to the trumpet not the voice saying woe!!
    What do think the 7th trumpet is? Satan being cast to earth is most certainly part of the 7th trumpet. In fact, the text clearly states what the third woe is. Just like the 6th trumpet has the 200 million man army along with the time of the 2W. The 7th trumpet includes all the text from Rev 11:15 thru Rev 13. All of it. The 6th seal contains a lot text as well.

    We are clearly told there are three woes. What do you think the 3rd woe is if not the one stated as such in Rev 12?

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    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Third Woe is ALL SEVEN of the Vials.
    Even if that were so, it still eliminates the 7 year trib theory.

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    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Even if that were so, it still eliminates the 7 year trib theory.
    No it doesn't, as I show above.................its overlap.

  12. #12

    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    What do think the 7th trumpet is? Satan being cast to earth is most certainly part of the 7th trumpet. In fact, the text clearly states what the third woe is. Just like the 6th trumpet has the 200 million man army along with the time of the 2W. The 7th trumpet includes all the text from Rev 11:15 thru Rev 13. All of it. The 6th seal contains a lot text as well.

    We are clearly told there are three woes. What do you think the 3rd woe is if not the one stated as such in Rev 12?
    No it doesn't the 7th trumpet contains just Revelations 11:15-19 it doesn't continue until Revelations 12 or 13. Follow your own logic where does it say the 3rd Woe ends in your view, the clear fact is that it wouldn't end it would start in Revelations 12:11 and contiues indefinitly even though its not mentioned in conjunction with the trumpet blast . There i no mention in Revelations 12-19 or the 3rd Woe being past. Its better to just take the text for what it says The events of the 7th trumpet Revelations 11:15-19 are the 3rd woe. It doesn't continue all the way into Revelations 16 or even in chap 12. Satan falls and opens the pit and raises the beast previous to the 7th trumpet!

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    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    No it doesn't the 7th trumpet contains just Revelations 11:15-19 it doesn't continue until Revelations 12 or 13. Follow your own logic where does it say the 3rd Woe ends in your view, the clear fact is that it wouldn't end it would start in Revelations 12:11 and contiues indefinitly even though its not mentioned in conjunction with the trumpet blast . There i no mention in Revelations 12-19 or the 3rd Woe being past. Its better to just take the text for what it says The events of the 7th trumpet Revelations 11:15-19 are the 3rd woe. It doesn't continue all the way into Revelations 16 or even in chap 12. Satan falls and opens the pit and raises the beast previous to the 7th trumpet!
    Nowhere does it say Rev 11:19 is the end of the 3rd woe of the end of the 7th trumpet.
    Nowhere does it say satan opens the abyss.

    How can we ever expect to get it right if we move the text all over the place? Chapter 12 comes after chapter 11. Chapter 12 is certainly after chapter 9. No getting around it. I also realize that if you actually accept what is specifically stated as the 3rd woe, it will undermine your understanding on many fronts. Ultimately, we must decide if we want to be right, or want the truth.

    Revelation 8:13 ...“Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound!”

    Revelation 12:12 ...Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you

    The exact same words are used by the angels to describe the woes. I don't think God was trying to trick us. It means what it means. The arrival of Jesus to gather His elect and the casting out of satan is what the 7th trumpet is all about. It isn't hard to understand, but it may be hard to believe. I get that. It was hard for me as well. Eventually, I had to change my views.

  14. #14

    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Nowhere does it say Rev 11:19 is the end of the 3rd woe of the end of the 7th trumpet.
    Nowhere does it say satan opens the abyss.

    How can we ever expect to get it right if we move the text all over the place? Chapter 12 comes after chapter 11. Chapter 12 is certainly after chapter 9. No getting around it. I also realize that if you actually accept what is specifically stated as the 3rd woe, it will undermine your understanding on many fronts. Ultimately, we must decide if we want to be right, or want the truth.

    Revelation 8:13 ...“Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound!”

    Revelation 12:12 ...Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you

    The exact same words are used by the angels to describe the woes. I don't think God was trying to trick us. It means what it means. The arrival of Jesus to gather His elect and the casting out of satan is what the 7th trumpet is all about. It isn't hard to understand, but it may be hard to believe. I get that. It was hard for me as well. Eventually, I had to change my views.
    Me either its not a trick you just need to indetify what the Woes are and that right these Revelations 12:12 is not the 3rd woe. But w.e man believe as you wish, for me i believe the 3rd woe is the events at the 7th trumpet mentioned in Revelations 11:14-19 not Revelations 11:14-19:21 as your claiming. Revelations 12:12 is the first woe (this is why the language is the exact same as Revelations 8:13) Revelations 13:7 is the second woe death of the 2W Revelations 15-16 is the 3rd woe. Trust the bible man its quite clear!!

  15. #15

    Re: The 7 year tribulation theory is a mathematical impossibility.

    I know i posted this Before but Just for you Tony i'll point it out again Revelations 11:19 ends like this Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings,[c] peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

    Read thru Revelations 12-14 you will notice the temple of God in Heaven is NOT open.

    But in Revelations 15:5 [B]After this I looked, and the sanctuary of the tent of witness in heaven was opened, 6 and out of the sanctuary came the seven angels with the seven plagues, clothed in pure, bright linen, with golden sashes around their chests. 7 And one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever, 8 and the sanctuary was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the sanctuary until the seven plagues of the seven angels were finished.

    Again IT was OPENED IN REVELATIONS 15:5.

    The only way i'll execpt your claim is if you can prove from any verse from Revelations 12-15:4 where the temple is closed so it can be opened Again as your claiming

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