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Thread: The DAY OF THE LORD

  1. #151
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    Re: The DAY OF THE LORD

    As you may note, I am currently in the Philippines. My wife and I are helping at the Ruel Foundation, an orphanage that takes children with cleft palate. We will be here until June, while the founder is on leave

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    As much as I may admire your computation of different days to a year, depending on the culture, I don't think there is any explicit emphasis placed upon a 360 day year. It is simply used, it seems, for a 3.5 year period. It is a reference back to Dan 7 and Dan 12, where "time, times, and half a time" are used.
    I
    Culture has nothing to do with the calendar! There was a 360 day year in ancient times and prophecy says there will be again. Isaiah 13:13 explicitly says ; the earth will be moved from her place.

    As for your contention that there is no 7 year period to come and the 7 seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls may not be consecutive, those things are your assumption and it is incumbent upon you to prove anything that deviates from the Word as written.
    The 3.5 year period refers, quite plainly, to the last half of the final 7 years.
    And Jesus does not bring His Day of wrath at His Return. He just destroys the army of the Anti-Christ then. His wrath against the nations, that will affect all the world is the Sixth Seal, years before His Return. Proved by Isaiah 63:1-5, where He gets His garments splashed with blood. He Returns WITH garments already splashed with blood.

    Your denials and determination to adjust the prophesies shows that you have another agenda to promote. One that leaves people with no true understanding of what God plans for His people in these end times.

  2. #152
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    Re: The DAY OF THE LORD

    The original plan of God was to have a people who would be His witnesses and present the gospel to the nations. Ancient Israel failed in the mission, they were sent into exile, but only for a decreed time of punishment. Ezekiel 4:4-6 There are two groups: Israel and Judah. Judah have returned to a portion of the holy Land, but in unbelief and Israel remains scattered among the nations, as many as the sands of the sea.
    Also many gentile people have been grafted in to become part of true Christian Israel through the New Covenant of Jesus.
    Now the exile of Israel is over, but they; now every righteous Christian person, Galatians 3:26-29, cannot go to their heritage, as all the holy Land is inhabited by atheists, Muslims and all kinds of ungodly beliefs and false religions. What is God to do?
    The same as He did in Noah's day: wipe them out, only this time by fire from the sun. The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, as prophesied in over 100 Bible passages; the means: Isaiah 30:26a; the effects: Zephaniah 1:14-18, and the results: the world will never be the same again.

    This Day will be triggered by the commencement of an attack on Israel, from all directions by a confederation of nations and entities. Psalms 83:1-18 Iran will prepare their nuke missiles, Isaiah 22:6, but at the moment of firing, the Lord will destroy them by the powerful EMP flash from an explosion of the sun. Psalms 7:12-16, Jeremiah 49:35, Ezekiel 32:24-25, Deuteronomy 32:22
    24 hours later the main mass of this Coronal Mass Ejection will arrive on earth. It will mainly affect the Middle East region killing all life except a remnant of the Jews in Jerusalem. Hosea 4:1-3, Isaiah 6:11-13, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:18
    The rest of the world will see it coming and will hide among the rocks and in caves, Isaiah 2:21, Luke 23:30, Revelation 6:16, so most will survive.
    Luke 21:25-26 ...signs will appear in the sun....people will stand helpless, not knowing which way to turn....They will faint with terror as they see what is coming. Luke 21:28 When you see these things, look up for your redemption draws near.
    The Return of Jesus, mentioned in verse 27 happens at least 7 years later, as we know from the sequence in Revelation.

  3. #153

    Re: The DAY OF THE LORD

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    As you may note, I am currently in the Philippines. My wife and I are helping at the Ruel Foundation, an orphanage that takes children with cleft palate. We will be here until June, while the founder is on leave
    I'm so happy to hear that. I have a good number of close Filipino friends. They are *great people!* It must be their Catholic background that makes them so gracious? My ex-pastor's wife spends time in the Philippines ministering as well. My heart goes out to these people. They are so flexible, moving to other countries and learning other languages! The fact there are so many islands causes inherent political instability and injustices. They really need understanding and religious instruction if they are to move forward as a country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz
    Culture has nothing to do with the calendar! There was a 360 day year in ancient times and prophecy says there will be again. Isaiah 13:13 explicitly says ; the earth will be moved from her place.
    That's an extreme view of things, and a rather bizarre interpretation. No, I don't think Scripture explicitly explains that there will be a return to the 360 day year. That is your surmise--not what is said. You can draw that conclusion--fine. But that is not what is said.

    All we are told is that there will be a fulfillment of the 3.5 years in Dan 7. John puts this in days, just as the era of Antiochus 4 was put in days, ie 1290 days (Dan 12). I have no reason to think this will not be literal. But it is based on an outmoded way of describing a year, ie as a 360 day period. Fulfillment of that period, 1260 days, does not require a return to that system of dating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz
    As for your contention that there is no 7 year period to come and the 7 seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls may not be consecutive, those things are your assumption and it is incumbent upon you to prove anything that deviates from the Word as written.
    You are assuming that the Word says that the seals, trumpets, and bowls are consecutive. The Scriptures say no such thing! So no, it is not encumbent upon me to prove anything in this regard. On the contrary, it is *you* who must prove your claim that the Word teaches a consecutive order, which of course you will not be able to do. There is no such teaching!

    My claim that this is not a linear sequence in time is based on the account of events within these visions that must happen simultaneously, or out of a time sequence. So my arguments are in fact based on the Word! For example, the 6th seal shows the Day of Christ's Wrath, which everybody should know is the last day of the age.

    Also, I've shown elsewhere that Christ's Kingdom comes in the 7th trumpet. We should also know that this transpires on the last day of this age. And since the 7th trumpet vision takes place before the 7 bowls vision we know that the 7th trumpet and the 7 bowls cannot represent a linear time sequence. Rather, the 7 bowls repeat what happens before and at the sounding of the 7th trumpet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz
    The 3.5 year period refers, quite plainly, to the last half of the final 7 years.
    This is not plain at all. It is plain only to those who have been inundated with the future interpretation of Daniel's 70th Week. Actually, the 70th Week of Daniel was finished 490 years after the Decree of Artaxerxes. That is, the 70th Week was finished in the time of Jesus' earthly ministry. That is what the Scriptures say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz
    And Jesus does not bring His Day of wrath at His Return. He just destroys the army of the Anti-Christ then. His wrath against the nations, that will affect all the world is the Sixth Seal, years before His Return. Proved by Isaiah 63:1-5, where He gets His garments splashed with blood. He Returns WITH garments already splashed with blood.
    The particulars you're adding to this is not even enumerated. There is no reason to think the Day of Christ's Wrath is different from the Wrath displayed at Christ's Coming in 2 Thes 1, or in Dan 7. In fact, I think the account of Christ's Wrath here is based explicitly on the account of Antichrist's destruction in Dan 7. And that's because the whole scenario painted in Rev 12-13 is based on the account in Dan 7 of Antichrist's 3.5 year reign and ultimate destruction at the coming of the Son of Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz
    Your denials and determination to adjust the prophesies shows that you have another agenda to promote. One that leaves people with no true understanding of what God plans for His people in these end times.
    On the contrary, you are acting in a judgmental manner. Am I questioning your motives? No. I have no agenda other than speaking the truth in love, to the best of my capacity. I suggest you do the same. Otherwise, we will be wasting our time.

  4. #154
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    Re: The DAY OF THE LORD

    Thanks for your comments Randyk.
    We have different views on what God has planned for these last days and I believe we will see it all happen as prophesied. Even though I am 75 years young!

    Your view of God's Judgement upon the whole world, happening at the Return of Jesus, I see as incorrect.
    As we can all see, considering God's point of view; the world at present is in dire need of a reset of civilization, just like it was in Noah's day. Now, as 2 Peter 3:7 says the world is reserved for fire. This terrible disaster will be caused by a CME sunstrike that the Lord will send. Proved by Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 50:1-3, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1 and many other prophesies that vividly describe that sudden and shocking worldwide devastation. The Lord will not be seen on that Day, Habakkuk 3:4, Psalms 18:11 + , so it cannot be His Return.

    When I said you have another agenda, I was not judging you personally, but saying that what you promote does not match with the Prophetic Word and leads people to be unaware and unprepared for what must happen during the difficult time leading up to the Return. You know these prophesied things WILL happen, not knowing what will commence them is your mistake. 1 Thess 5:1-15

  5. #155

    Re: The DAY OF THE LORD

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Thanks for your comments Randyk.
    We have different views on what God has planned for these last days and I believe we will see it all happen as prophesied. Even though I am 75 years young!

    Your view of God's Judgement upon the whole world, happening at the Return of Jesus, I see as incorrect.
    As we can all see, considering God's point of view; the world at present is in dire need of a reset of civilization, just like it was in Noah's day. Now, as 2 Peter 3:7 says the world is reserved for fire. This terrible disaster will be caused by a CME sunstrike that the Lord will send. Proved by Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 50:1-3, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1 and many other prophesies that vividly describe that sudden and shocking worldwide devastation. The Lord will not be seen on that Day, Habakkuk 3:4, Psalms 18:11 + , so it cannot be His Return.

    When I said you have another agenda, I was not judging you personally, but saying that what you promote does not match with the Prophetic Word and leads people to be unaware and unprepared for what must happen during the difficult time leading up to the Return. You know these prophesied things WILL happen, not knowing what will commence them is your mistake. 1 Thess 5:1-15
    Well, I'm certainly happy to know you're not trying to judge my intentions. I also think you're mistaken, but that's just my hunch--not a claim I'm making to know all the details. The most important thing to me are the things people are choosing today in eternal matters. But speculating about the fulfillment of future prophecy is a great joy of mine, and obviously of most of us here. Thanks for your thoughts!

  6. #156
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    Re: The DAY OF THE LORD

    It's time for consensus and true knowledge of what God has planned for our future, in these last days:
    As it was in the Days of Noah:

    1 Thessalonians 5:3-5 You friends, are not in the dark, that Day will not come upon you like a thief. You are children of the Light, of the day. We do not belong to night and darkness. But while they are saying: all is peaceful, all secure; then destruction is upon them, suddenly as the pangs that come upon a woman in childbirth and there will be no escape.

    ‘You My friends’
    - Those who love Him and keep His commands.

    John 15:14-15 You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is about, I call you friends because I have disclosed to you everything that I heard from the Father.

    ‘that Day’
    - Jesus quoted Isaiah 61:1-2a at the commencement of His ministry. He stopped at ‘and a Day of vengeance of our God’. That therefore, must be the next prophesied event.

    It is wrong to think ‘the Day of vengeance’ is at the Return of Jesus in His glory, for these main reasons;

    1/ The situation will hardly be: ‘all is peaceful’, at the end of the Tribulation and with the Anti Christ’s army coming to attack Jerusalem!

    2/ The Return will not come ‘as a thief’, that is unexpectedly, because as anyone with a Bible can read that after the AC places his image in the Temple, it will be 1260 days, then the Return.

    3/ As described to us in many prophecies, the Day of wrath is a worldwide event, on all nations:

    Zephaniah 1:7 Keep silent in the presence of the Lord, for the Day of the Lord is near, the Lord has prepared a sacrifice and set apart those His has invited.

    Isaiah 13:9 The Day of the Lord is coming, that cruel Day of wrath and fierce anger, to reduce the earth to a desolation and to destroy the wicked there.

    Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all the proud evildoers will be as stubble, that Day will set them ablaze leaving them neither root nor branch.

    Revelation 6:17 For the great Day of their wrath has come and who can stand?

    like a thief’- That is, unexpectedly to all the godless peoples and to those who have ignored or failed to understand the prophetic warnings.

    Revelation 3:3 If you do not wake up, you will not know the moment of My coming.

    Revelation 16:15 See: I am coming unexpectedly. Happy is the one who stays awake and ready.

    Isaiah 46:10 From the beginning I reveal the end, from ancient times what is yet to be.

    children of the light’- So let your Light so shine before men, that all may see the glory of the Lord....

    1 Thess. 5:8 We who belong in the light, must keep prepared and armed with salvation.

    Isaiah 42:6 I have formed and destined you to be a light to the nations.....

    they say; all is peaceful, all secure’- The enemy nations prepare a surprise attack on Israel.

    Micah 4:12 They do not understand God’s purposes, they are gathered like sheaves on the threshing floor.

    Matthew 24:37-44 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Then they ate, drank and married right up to the day Noah went into the ark. They knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away. That is how it will be when the Son of Man comes. Be ready, therefore, lest He comes when you are unprepared.

    ‘suddenly destruction is upon them’- This is the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied over 100 times in the Bible and accurately described as a CME sunstrike. Isa. 30:26

    Isaiah 47:8-11 Listen to this, you lovers of luxury, living carefree and thinking you will never be in mourning. Suddenly, in a single Day disaster will come upon you.

    Jeremiah 25:32-33 The Lord says: Ruin spreads from nation to nation. A mighty tempest blows up and those whom the Lord has slain on that Day will lie scattered all over the world.

    ‘there will be no escape’- Everyone will be affected, but the Lord’s Christian people will go to live in the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

    Romans 2:3 Do you imagine that you can escape the judgement of God?

    Isaiah 2:19 They will creep into caves to hide when the Lord strikes the world with terror.

    Revelation 6:16-17 They called out: Hide us from the wrath of God and the Lamb’.

    Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.

  7. #157

    Re: The DAY OF THE LORD

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    It's time for consensus and true knowledge of what God has planned for our future, in these last days:
    As it was in the Days of Noah:

    1 Thessalonians 5:3-5 You friends, are not in the dark, that Day will not come upon you like a thief. You are children of the Light, of the day. We do not belong to night and darkness. But while they are saying: all is peaceful, all secure; then destruction is upon them, suddenly as the pangs that come upon a woman in childbirth and there will be no escape.

    ‘You My friends’
    - Those who love Him and keep His commands.

    John 15:14-15 You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is about, I call you friends because I have disclosed to you everything that I heard from the Father.

    ‘that Day’
    - Jesus quoted Isaiah 61:1-2a at the commencement of His ministry. He stopped at ‘and a Day of vengeance of our God’. That therefore, must be the next prophesied event.

    It is wrong to think ‘the Day of vengeance’ is at the Return of Jesus in His glory, for these main reasons;

    1/ The situation will hardly be: ‘all is peaceful’, at the end of the Tribulation and with the Anti Christ’s army coming to attack Jerusalem!
    I don't think this refers to a real state of peace in the world before Christ returns or during the reign of Antichrist. Rather, it refers to the mindset of unbelievers who ally with antiChristianity, thinking that their system is what brings peace, and that Christians are "haters."

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz
    2/ The Return will not come ‘as a thief’, that is unexpectedly, because as anyone with a Bible can read that after the AC places his image in the Temple, it will be 1260 days, then the Return.
    Christ depicted his return as a "thief" to indicate the surprise *unbelievers* will have. Living immoral, ungodly lives they obviously aren't expecting judgment from God against their lifestyles!

    On the other hand Christians are always living in a "ready" status. Their righteous living always makes them prepared for the Kingdom, whether they experience sudden death or the coming of the Lord.

    I personally think the world will not embrace the belief that the Antichrist will be who he is, and therefore will reject a countdown 1260 days until the coming of the Lord. As for Christians, I don't think it will be that easy for them either. Who precisely Antichrist is may not be immediately recognized, nor will there be precise knowledge of when the 1260 day countdown begins. Furthermore, I think there will be more days, weeks, or months beyond the 1260 days, between the end of stability in Antichrist's empire and the Battle of Armageddon itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz
    3/ As described to us in many prophecies, the Day of wrath is a worldwide event, on all nations:

    Zephaniah 1:7 Keep silent in the presence of the Lord, for the Day of the Lord is near, the Lord has prepared a sacrifice and set apart those His has invited.

    Isaiah 13:9 The Day of the Lord is coming, that cruel Day of wrath and fierce anger, to reduce the earth to a desolation and to destroy the wicked there.

    Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all the proud evildoers will be as stubble, that Day will set them ablaze leaving them neither root nor branch.

    Revelation 6:17 For the great Day of their wrath has come and who can stand?

    like a thief’- That is, unexpectedly to all the godless peoples and to those who have ignored or failed to understand the prophetic warnings.

    Revelation 3:3 If you do not wake up, you will not know the moment of My coming.
    Christ is here (Rev 3.3) noted as coming in a pre-eschatological sense, to judge an individual in his immediate life, rather than at the eschatological coming of Christ. It was the same thing in 70 AD when Christ "revealed himself" in judgment to the Jewish People. I certainly believe in an eschatological coming of Christ. But I think the impetus is on our present awareness and sobriety, so that we do not stop living in righteousness *today.*

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz
    Revelation 16:15 See: I am coming unexpectedly. Happy is the one who stays awake and ready.

    Isaiah 46:10 From the beginning I reveal the end, from ancient times what is yet to be.

    children of the light’- So let your Light so shine before men, that all may see the glory of the Lord....

    1 Thess. 5:8 We who belong in the light, must keep prepared and armed with salvation.
    Yes, Christians should be aware of what God is doing in the present day and in our present lives. We certainly don't have a full grasp of it, being weak-sighted as we are in our sinful nature. We certainly cannot anticipate everything that God will do from moment to moment, from day to day. However, we should see a pattern that leads us in righteousness, as opposed to the carnal works and attitudes of sinful mankind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz
    Isaiah 42:6 I have formed and destined you to be a light to the nations.....

    they say; all is peaceful, all secure’- The enemy nations prepare a surprise attack on Israel.

    Micah 4:12 They do not understand God’s purposes, they are gathered like sheaves on the threshing floor.

    Matthew 24:37-44 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Then they ate, drank and married right up to the day Noah went into the ark. They knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away. That is how it will be when the Son of Man comes. Be ready, therefore, lest He comes when you are unprepared.

    ‘suddenly destruction is upon them’- This is the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied over 100 times in the Bible and accurately described as a CME sunstrike. Isa. 30:26

    Isaiah 47:8-11 Listen to this, you lovers of luxury, living carefree and thinking you will never be in mourning. Suddenly, in a single Day disaster will come upon you.

    Jeremiah 25:32-33 The Lord says: Ruin spreads from nation to nation. A mighty tempest blows up and those whom the Lord has slain on that Day will lie scattered all over the world.

    ‘there will be no escape’- Everyone will be affected, but the Lord’s Christian people will go to live in the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

    Romans 2:3 Do you imagine that you can escape the judgement of God?

    Isaiah 2:19 They will creep into caves to hide when the Lord strikes the world with terror.

    Revelation 6:16-17 They called out: Hide us from the wrath of God and the Lamb’.

    Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.
    I do believe that Christ is coming back in "wrath," or with "vengeance." That is unmistakably put in 2 Thes 1 and in other places. However, I agree with you that we should act like Children of the Day, fully aware of Christ and his righteousness in our lives.

    2 Thes 1.6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels.

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