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Thread: The foreknowledge of God

  1. #991
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo View Post
    The purpose why God created us is a fascinating subject, it was my first post here and many questions spring from that, such as, would A&E have been obedient without the temptation and why did God allow the temptation.
    First, God tests us; Satan tempts us. The Tree was a test for A&E so that they might come to understand something fundamental about themselves. Had God not set the test before them, they would never have come to know themselves. We don't truly know ourselves until we are tested.

  2. #992
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Yes.. But man will eventually give in to lust. It's inevitable.
    Not for Jesus. [I mention this because some people have come to the wrong idea about the flesh, thinking that the flesh itself is evil. The man Jesus proved this to be incorrect. ]

  3. #993

    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Yes.. But man will eventually give in to lust. It's inevitable.
    No, it is not inevitable. It is simply the wide road to destruction, that almost everyone takes willingly, and perishes.

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    Man doesn't have a "sin nature" as such. I take note of the description found in James.

    James 1:14-16
    14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. 16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

    Lust, not sin, is an aspect of our nature. Lust is what we own for ourselves but we have a choice whether or not to be carried away by our lust. The question, as James says, is whether we will allow ourselves to be deceived. Fantasy is the enemy of faith. When it comes to our lust, what we imagine to be true, IS true for us. .
    YHWH'S WORD never says that what we imagine to be true is true at all. YHWH calls that sin, in so many different ways.

    YHWH'S WORD shows in TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS, and NEW TESTAMENT that lust is sin, and warns against it, and to resist the temptations thereof, and not to have lust like the pagan gentiles do, not even to have that kind of lust, in marriage.

    Lust and sin both are inherent in man, and are a curse, and few are redeemed from sin (which includes lust).

  4. #994
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew Ward's Hip View Post
    Adam knew God told him not to do so. At that point, I don't believe that Adam knew it was bad in a morality sense. All he had ever known was God and doing what God said. I don't think he had anything with which to make a comparison for "bad," which is why I used the word "amoral."

    For whatever reason, he chose to do the opposite of what God told him to do.
    True to a point. But Adam knew God was God and he knew he told him NOT to do something. He chose to do it anyhow. It's textbook rebellion.

  5. #995

    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    First, God tests us; Satan tempts us. The Tree was a test for A&E so that they might come to understand something fundamental about themselves. Had God not set the test before them, they would never have come to know themselves. We don't truly know ourselves until we are tested.
    short version (footnote): Most posters and most people on earth still don't "know themselves" and never will learn until too late - even a multitude who think they are saved don't find out until JUDGMENT DAY when the JUDGE/SAVIOR tells them "I never knew you , begone from ME" ..... sin and society and mankind is totally deceptive, so completely deceptive, and most men go along willingly on the wide road until they are destroyed.

    long version: don't know yet - depends on the build up, the previous things(a particular school maybe?) leading to this, the purpose and motives and goal ..

  6. #996
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    No, it is not inevitable. It is simply the wide road to destruction, that almost everyone takes willingly, and perishes.

    Yes, it is. This is what is meant by "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.". As Adam did.

  7. #997
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew Ward's Hip View Post
    For whatever reason, he chose to do the opposite of what God told him to do.
    Herd mentality from the beginning, 10 / 10 anxiety.

  8. #998
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    Herd mentality from the beginning, 10 / 10 anxiety.
    Adam was a typical dude.

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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffcraig View Post
    YHWH'S WORD never says that what we imagine to be true is true at all. YHWH calls that sin, in so many different ways.
    Of course. With regard to our lust, it matters little whether the object of our lust is real or imagined. As Jesus points out, if we lust after a woman in our heart, it's as if we have already committed adultery with her.

    YHWH'S WORD shows in TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS, and NEW TESTAMENT that lust is sin, and warns against it, and to resist the temptations thereof, and not to have lust like the pagan gentiles do, not even to have that kind of lust, in marriage.
    I would need to see the scriptural references behind your point here. Not all lust is sin; but coveting is a sin. So I agree with you in general.

    Lust and sin both are inherent in man, and are a curse, and few are redeemed from sin (which includes lust).
    Agreed. But here is the point I am making. The fact that both sin and lust are in us, does not mean we have a "sin nature." I reserve the term "nature" in this case, for the some total of the behavior of a man, or the trajectory of his life. Our purpose in life is to "image" God and our "nature" is suitable for that purpose. To suggest that sin is our "nature" is to insist that we can't help ourselves, which is not true.

  10. #1000

    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    Not for Jesus. [I mention this because some people have come to the wrong idea about the flesh, thinking that the flesh itself is evil. The man Jesus proved this to be incorrect. ]

    I think you may find in SCRIPTURE that "at best" the flesh is unprofitable, good for nothing.

    Y'SHUA MESSIAH was an obvious unique man that rather proved and stated that all flesh is wicked, all mankind/society is evil,
    and HE came to REDEEM us with HIS BLOOD.

    << EPHESIANS 2. GALATIANS. REVELATION. GOSPELS "whatever is born of the flesh is flesh and profits nothing" (this includes as verified in YHWH'S WORD all of society and mankind's (so-called) knowledge and wisdom; everything apart from YHWH) .

  11. #1001

    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    .... To suggest that sin is our "nature" is to insist that we can't help ourselves, which is not true.
    Sorry, why you think that way I have no idea at all,

    but it has been true through all history that men cannot help themselves - it is not in man to help himself.

    This is a basic truth throughout SCRIPTURE - TORAH, PSALMS, PROPHETS and NEW TESTAMENT (especially).

    (I just read the last line (the one quoted) of the post so far, seeing it after my last post closed.

    It is so much in error, I was compelled to reply immediately. (and willingly being always subject to Y'SHUA MESSIAH) )

    There may, YHWH willing be sufficient other posters to reply, and YHWH willing I may respond further when there is time.

  12. #1002

    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Or, as our Lebanese Christian brothers would say, "Inshallah."

  13. #1003
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    It's interesting watching threads twist and turn. Systematic theologians on both sides of the monergism/synergism debate teach we inherited a sin nature.
    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - unknown

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

  14. #1004
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    Adam wasn't deceived, Eve was. Adam was just plain stupid:

    Genesis 3.12 - 13
    12 The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate.”
    13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent tricked me, and I ate.”

    1 Timothy 2:14
    14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
    Or maybe we can say he gave his pants over to his wife ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  15. #1005
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffcraig View Post
    I think you may find in SCRIPTURE that "at best" the flesh is unprofitable, good for nothing.
    Really? With my flesh I walk across the room and kiss my wife. Zoe kisses me back. With my flesh I hug my kids and with their flesh they hug me back. With my flesh I work hard to make a living and with my flesh I give to those in need. I'd say the flesh gets a bad rap.

    Y'SHUA MESSIAH was an obvious unique man that rather proved and stated that all flesh is wicked, all mankind/society is evil,
    and HE came to REDEEM us with HIS BLOOD.
    Where does Jesus say all "flesh" is wicked. It was Jesus who said, "I know what is in the heart of man", which speaks to the inner man, not a man's flesh.

    Be careful not to exaggerate the Biblical warnings about the flesh beyond what the Bible intends to say about it.

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