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Thread: The foreknowledge of God

  1. #1006
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    It's interesting watching threads twist and turn. Systematic theologians on both sides of the monergism/synergism debate teach we inherited a sin nature.
    Since ~Augustine, in its present form. Genesis 3.7 indicates a kind of awakening in Adam, and Eve, post-sin: they became aware of what they'd done, but where do we get the inherited sin nature from, if we mean a corruption of human nature? (Is the awareness of what they'd done the corruption, but then how does this become a kind of genetic, or spiritual knowledge passed on through procreation)?

    Would it be fairly safe to say that if we have a sin nature, then it's not a physical reality, given what we know of genetics? This also means that Paul's teachings, for example, concerning 'the flesh', don't necessarily correspond with the flesh, even though we know that the object of sin is usually rooted in physicality (but in a physical world, wouldn't this be expected?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    Or maybe we can say he turned his pants over to his wife ...


    In all seriousness, though: Eve was deceived, not Adam. Eve misquoted God's command in Genesis 3.3, but Adam -- he disobeyed, fully aware that he was disobeying. He, unlike Eve, hadn't been deceived. If Genesis 3.6 is understood to mean that Adam was with Eve while the serpent was speaking with her, then it's all the worse for him, as now he's failed to correct Eve, or intervene in the exchange in defense of her. If we're 'in Adam', it's because he sinned in full knowledge of what he was doing, while Eve did not.

  2. #1007
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffcraig View Post
    Sorry, why you think that way I have no idea at all,

    but it has been true through all history that men cannot help themselves - it is not in man to help himself.
    You seem to have misunderstood what I said. Can man save himself? No. But that isn't the point. The question is whether my flesh is so sinful that I am compelled to sin and I have an excuse when I do.

    We need to be very careful to be precise in these discussions. What I want to avoid is the mistaken notion that human action is ultimately determined by causes external to the will. If one suggests that he sins because he has a "sin nature" he admits that the source and cause of his sin is external to his will, i.e. "naturally determined." Do Christians actually believe that sin is a biological phenomenon? One might think that sin is somehow inborn or hereditary and again, outside the will of man.

    Why does a bear eat a camper? The bear is acting according to his nature. Do we hold the bear morally responsible for eating the camper? No. Do we bring the bear before the court? No. If a man kills another man do we hold the first man responsible for his crimes? Yes. Do we bring the man before the court? Yes. How is a man different than a bear? The locus of the man's choices are not naturally determined but are found in the heart/will of man. When a man kills another man he is not acting according to his nature; he is acting against his nature. Without a moral sense, moral imperatives would be meaningless.

    and YHWH willing I may respond further when there is time.
    Take your time. I'm not in a hurry.

  3. #1008
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post


    In all seriousness, though: Eve was deceived, not Adam. Eve misquoted God's command in Genesis 3.3, but Adam -- he disobeyed, fully aware that he was disobeying. He, unlike Eve, hadn't been deceived. If Genesis 3.6 is understood to mean that Adam was with Eve while the serpent was speaking with her, then it's all the worse for him, as now he's failed to correct Eve, or intervene in the exchange in defense of her. If we're 'in Adam', it's because he sinned in full knowledge of what he was doing, while Eve did not.
    It seems that Eve was not with Adam when God gave him the commandment (Genesis 2:16-17) ... she wasn't taken from his rib until later (Genesis 2:20-22) ... and I don't necessarily read into Genesis 3 that Adam was with Eve while the serpent was speaking with her ... I lean towards the understanding that Adam wasn't with her then.
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
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  4. #1009
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    It seems that Eve was not with Adam when God gave him the commandment (Genesis 2:16-17) ... she wasn't taken from his rib until later (Genesis 2:20-22) ... and I don't necessarily read into Genesis 3 that Adam was with Eve while the serpent was speaking with her ... I lean towards the understanding that Adam wasn't with her then.
    I believe that Adam knew as they were with one another as she was offered and ate.

  5. #1010
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Much speculation on before/after aspects over the centuries.

    Did Adam knowingly embrace death after the fall of his wife?


  6. #1011
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by IMINXTC View Post
    Much speculation on before/after aspects over the centuries.

    Did Adam knowingly embrace death after the fall of his wife?
    If we're like him, I would imagine he did. He loved his wife more than God.

  7. #1012
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by IMINXTC View Post
    Much speculation on before/after aspects over the centuries.

    Did Adam knowingly embrace death after the fall of his wife?
    The scripture says sin entered through Adam. He was certainly not without blame. They were both tempted by sin that the serpent played down the consequences of with lies. Just like now.

  8. #1013
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo View Post
    The purpose why God created us is a fascinating subject, it was my first post here and many questions spring from that, such as, would A&E have been obedient without the temptation and why did God allow the temptation.
    First, God tests us; Satan tempts us. The Tree was a test for A&E so that they might come to understand something fundamental about themselves. Had God not set the test before them, they would never have come to know themselves. We don't truly know ourselves until we are tested.
    While I agree on what you write here, is it meant as an answer to my question(s), the red in particular ?

  9. #1014
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Kalahari. Did Adam have free will ?

  10. #1015

    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Sin entered the world through one man [Adam].
    And death by sin. Death, judgement and condemnation is passed on to all men.
    For all have sinned.

    (Rom 5:12 KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    (Rom 5:13 KJV) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    (Rom 5:14 KJV) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    Adam and eve sinned, through the lust of the flesh. The lust of the eye. Pride and disobedience.

    Imo, Lust, pride and disobedience are some of the things that causes man all to sin before God. So we may laugh at Adam and Eve's disobedience and say how could they be deceived by the serpent and be so foolish to sin. Yet - the bible writes all men are with sin, there is no one without sin and as a result death and condemnation is passed onto all men.

    (Rom 3:23 KJV) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    ::

    (Rom 5:12 KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    ::

    (Rom 5:18 KJV) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    The scripture says sin entered through Adam. He was certainly not without blame. They were both tempted by sin that the serpent played down the consequences of with lies. Just like now.

  11. #1016
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Adam and eve sinned, through the lust of the flesh. The lust of the eye. Pride and disobedience.

    Imo, Lust, pride and disobedience are some of the things that causes man all to sin before God. So we may laugh at Adam and Eve's disobedience and say how could they be deceived by the serpent and be so foolish to sin. Yet - the bible writes all men are with sin, there is no one without sin and as a result death and condemnation is passed onto all men.

    You are right on. The enemy is still doing what he did in the garden, with great success.

  12. #1017
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    If we're like him, I would imagine he did. He loved his wife more than God.
    Some suggest an interesting antitype here.

    Redemption, particularly Eve's, initially, requires her to produce offspring.

    Adam's assumption of sin and ultimate death typifies Christ's becoming sin and dying for
    the Church.

    "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" Eph 5:25

    Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing... 1Tm 3:15a


  13. #1018

    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by IMINXTC View Post
    Some suggest an interesting antitype here.

    Redemption, particularly Eve's, initially, requires her to produce offspring.

    Adam's assumption of sin and ultimate death typifies Christ's becoming sin and dying for
    the Church.

    "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" Eph 5:25

    Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing... 1Tm 3:15a
    Don't think 1 Tim 3 has any usefulness in interpreting Gen3-4...

    1 Tim 3:15 is dealing with Paul directly opposing the gnostic "Eve first" heresy of the feminist cults in and around Ephesus, who Tai gut that giving birth was inherently evil as it created more flesh. "saved" is probably better rendered "preserved" there.

  14. #1019
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Kalahari. Did Adam have free will ?
    I already said he did. See post #983.

  15. #1020
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    Re: The foreknowledge of God

    Thread has reached over 1000 posts.

    Continue here: http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...49#post3368449
    2 Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

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