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Thread: Job 3

  1. #1
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    Job 3

    I was reading Greg's devotion on bitterness and thought about Job chapter 3.

    There must be a difference between the instructions on bitterness in the N.T. and what Job felt?

    Anyone who wants to discuss this might help me understand a little better these differences.
    Peace to you!

    John 12:46
    “I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.”



  2. #2

    Re: Job 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
    I was reading Greg's devotion on bitterness and thought about Job chapter 3.

    There must be a difference between the instructions on bitterness in the N.T. and what Job felt?

    Anyone who wants to discuss this might help me understand a little better these differences.
    Job ultimately is admonished by God for the things he said. His conduct in most of the book is not an example for us to follow, in my view.
    “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
    that we may observe all the words of this law."
    Deuteronomy 29:29

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    Re: Job 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelog View Post
    Job ultimately is admonished by God for the things he said. His conduct in most of the book is not an example for us to follow, in my view.
    Oh, I do not see Job in this manner, and chapter 3 as a lament, rather. Since this is not debate forum, I will wait to see if anyone else has something to add. Thanks.
    Peace to you!

    John 12:46
    “I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.”



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    Re: Job 3

    I see a man whose sorrow is overwhelming and too much for him to bare. A man that would rather undo it all as we sometimes would rather go back in time and not make that horrible mistake. His sorrow and horror at what has just happened is too much for him and he sees no rest from the sorrow and horror. He repeats several times in several different ways the need for rest and freedom from this nightmare.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

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    Re: Job 3

    I think the book should be an encouragement to all. It paints a picture for all to see. How, that in times of extreme stress,loss and affliction even the most righteous of men question God's methods. I often correlate the book with the example given us by the children of Israel in the wilderness. They were promised deliverance from bondage and an entry into a land flowing with milk and honey. Yet they were immediately driven in a desert were they could not find water to give to their children or animals. They failed to understand God's purpose in refining and perfecting faith. They fell into unbelief and even desired their old bondage to escape the trails God had given them. We often do the very same thing.


    Job did question God but the Lord himself was the one who corrected him and rebuked his friends for judging him. Job repented of his foolishness.

    Job 42:5-6 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

    In the final analysis the Lord said this:

    Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

    I think at the end Job had the same revelation that Paul gave to us:

    Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    So matter what our present circumstances or situations are the Lord is able to make them work together for our good. It is part of the trying of our faith which is more precious than gold:

    1 Pe 1:6-7 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    Rejoicing and remaining thankful even in the face of emotional heaviness and painful affliction are the key to being an overcomer. At the end God doubled Job's prior blessings but before this was done...he prayed for the friends that judged and mocked him. I think this speaks of a concept that is partially veiled in the Old Testament but fully revealed in the New.

    Mt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
    2 Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

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    Re: Job 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
    I was reading Greg's devotion on bitterness and thought about Job chapter 3. There must be a difference between the instructions on bitterness in the N.T. and what Job felt? Anyone who wants to discuss this might help me understand a little better these differences.
    Which instructions in the N.T. ?

    Compare also how the believers immersed in Y'SHUA MESSIAH lived in the N.T> "continually full of joy, peace and righteousness" (i.e. very very different from any group today, except the ecclesia wherever they gather in HIS NAME)

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    Re: Job 3

    Quote Originally Posted by shepherdsword View Post
    I think the book should be an encouragement to all. It paints a picture for all to see. How, that in times of extreme stress,loss and affliction even the most righteous of men question God's methods. I often correlate the book with the example given us by the children of Israel in the wilderness. They were promised deliverance from bondage and an entry into a land flowing with milk and honey. Yet they were immediately driven in a desert were they could not find water to give to their children or animals. They failed to understand God's purpose in refining and perfecting faith. They fell into unbelief and even desired their old bondage to escape the trails God had given them. We often do the very same thing.


    Job did question God but the Lord himself was the one who corrected him and rebuked his friends for judging him. Job repented of his foolishness.

    Job 42:5-6 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

    In the final analysis the Lord said this:

    Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

    I think at the end Job had the same revelation that Paul gave to us:

    Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    So matter what our present circumstances or situations are the Lord is able to make them work together for our good. It is part of the trying of our faith which is more precious than gold:

    1 Pe 1:6-7 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    Rejoicing and remaining thankful even in the face of emotional heaviness and painful affliction are the key to being an overcomer. At the end God doubled Job's prior blessings but before this was done...he prayed for the friends that judged and mocked him. I think this speaks of a concept that is partially veiled in the Old Testament but fully revealed in the New.

    Mt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    Nicely stated, the these are my sentiments.
    True Truth Exists & Can Be Found.

    A gentle answer turns away wrath; but a harsh word stirs up anger.
    Proverbs 15:1




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    Re: Job 3

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffcraig View Post
    Which instructions in the N.T. ?

    Compare also how the believers immersed in Y'SHUA MESSIAH lived in the N.T> "continually full of joy, peace and righteousness" (i.e. very very different from any group today, except the ecclesia wherever they gather in HIS NAME)
    Hello jeffcraig.
    I am not too familiar with you, but I have noticed this may be the second post you responded to I wrote.
    Maybe a little more background is needed? There is a post in "Devotions" on this forum posted by Greg Gordon about bitterness. I appreciated what he posted. It has helped me. I know I have smiled in the last few days since reflecting even though the storms in my life continue.

    Then, after I read about the bitterness, thinking it was seeping into me, trying to stay there and I thought about Job.
    He had more poured upon him than he could bear. He wanted to not exist!

    Was his "lament" bitterness, or was he expressing the truth of how he felt and thought, rather than holding it in and letting it fester? I believe God already knows our hearts, but He hopes we will feel free to express them, without fear that He cannot handle it.
    Peace to you!

    John 12:46
    “I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.”



  9. #9

    Re: Job 3

    Job 3 is about a perfect man relegated/demoted to face great tribulation that he feared most.

    Narrating his sorrowful experiences, Job gives an insight into what the great tribulation is and how it feels like.

    Bitterness experienced by Job during his great tribulation was not against God, but was one of direct results from experiencing wickedness and evil in full blast.

    All through his ordeal, Jobs integrity remained intact. However, what he lacked was the knowledge of God (read Job 38-41), making him vulnerable to all that happened to him.

    Jobs hidden counsel was without knowledge. He abhored his ignorance and repented before God restored him.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

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    Re: Job 3

    First I want to say I did rep shepherdsword post, very uplifting!


    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Job 3 is about a perfect man relegated/demoted to face great tribulation that he feared most.
    This is interesting. Do you mean perfect as in counted as righteous because he had faith? Or perfect in some other way?

    And this...second thing you said about fear is very interesting.
    I mean, I never thought of Job fearing, but having faith, as he was righteous---although certainly at some point most (all?) people have some fear..because they trust in what God has given to them and in part perhaps taking possession of those things as their own, including people?

    I want to say I do not see this in Job but if you do, I would like to see the areas of the Book of Job where these losses and sufferings are something Job does fear.

    If you have time. If not I will read through myself. Fear is an interesting subject for me as I am weak in this area...meaning, sometimes lack of trusting in the process.

    Narrating his sorrowful experiences, Job gives an insight into what the great tribulation is and how it feels like.

    Bitterness experienced by Job during his great tribulation was not against God, but was one of direct results from experiencing wickedness and evil in full blast.
    Full blast indeed. And I think I have trials. It seems like this book is to not only show it is possible to still believe in God in trials, but to see an individual suffer blow after blow phenomenal loss and suffering.

    All through his ordeal, Jobs integrity remained intact. However, what he lacked was the knowledge of God (read Job 38-41), making him vulnerable to all that happened to him.
    I will read this.
    Jobs hidden counsel was without knowledge. He abhored his ignorance and repented before God restored him.
    Interesting again...like.
    Peace to you!

    John 12:46
    “I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.”



  11. #11

    Re: Job 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
    This is interesting. Do you mean perfect as in counted as righteous because he had faith? Or perfect in some other way?
    Thanks for your response! I mean perfect in every sense of the word and as it relates to the Son of God: purity, wholesomeness and completeness of the Son of God. In the perfection of God, all things are made perfect and they operate as perfect.

    Perfection trumps righteousness that leads to holiness. It is the true nature of the Word of God given to saints who conform to the image of the Son of God.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
    And this...second thing you said about fear is very interesting.
    I mean, I never thought of Job fearing, but having faith, as he was righteous---although certainly at some point most (all?) people have some fear..because they trust in what God has given to them and in part perhaps taking possession of those things as their own, including people?

    I want to say I do not see this in Job but if you do, I would like to see the areas of the Book of Job where these losses and sufferings are something Job does fear.

    If you have time. If not I will read through myself. Fear is an interesting subject for me as I am weak in this area...meaning, sometimes lack of trusting in the process.
    The great tribulation is a very dreadful period in which is a sequence of sorrowful events spun by the wicked one. It is so dreadful that every creature fears. Jesus declares in Matthew 24:22 KJV: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    Everlasting death by destruction abides in the great tribulation. Satan wanted to destroy Job. Short of taking Job's life because God warned against that, Satan persecuted him thoroughly and mercilessly in the flesh and soul.

    Job, being a perfect and upright man, was sinless with his lips (see Job 2:10). But, he sinned before God by ignorance, not knowing God as was later revealed to him (Job) in Job 38-41.

    Every other sin, but the sin by ignorance, leads to death. That was how come God wouldn't allow Satan to touch Job's life: Job sinned by ignorance, although perfect in the Christ, he lacked in the knowledge of God.

    Job definitely had the faith of God since the beginning of his relationship with God. There is no way he'd be raised up to perfection and uprightness without having and keeping the faith of God. Impossible!

    Job did not fear because he lacked the faith of God. Rather, like all flesh and all souls, he simply feared the travails and fierceness of the great tribulation. Even the tribulation we face in the beginning of our world is enough to be feared, talk more of the great tribulation that follows after for the disobedient and unbelieving persons who indulge fornication, idolatry and stumble at the word of life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
    Full blast indeed. And I think I have trials. It seems like this book is to not only show it is possible to still believe in God in trials, but to see an individual suffer blow after blow phenomenal loss and suffering.
    Scooby_Snacks, God will make you overcome all trials, no matter what they are.

    Knowledge of God as the Creator, together with the knowledge of His times and places, of living things created by Him, and of the chiefs of His spiritual creations immediately stop tribulations. Notice that the Lord accepted Job right after he repented of his ignorance and prayed for his three friends.

    Again, knowledge stops tribulation. Otherwise, the people perish from their lack of knowledge.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

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    Re: Job 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooby_Snacks
    ...There must be a difference between the instructions on bitterness in the N.T. and what Job felt?...
    Note that "instructions" and "feelings" are intrinsically different.

    Do you want to clarify what is meant here in the OP question ?

    ...... .... I know I have smiled in the last few days since reflecting even though the storms in my life continue.

    Then, after I read about the bitterness, thinking it was seeping into me, trying to stay there and I thought about Job.
    He had more poured upon him than he could bear. He wanted to not exist!

    Was his "lament" bitterness, or was he expressing the truth of how he felt and thought, rather than holding it in and letting it fester? I believe God already knows our hearts, but He hopes we will feel free to express them, without fear that He cannot handle it.
    When anything stirs up bitterness, or (unGodly, unRighteous) thoughts of bitterness, or plants a root of bitterness, don't expect benefit from it.

    At the same time, or always, remember YHWH'S PLAN - HE says HE turns everything, good and bad, to the good of those who love HIM, who are called according to HIS PURPOSE.

    That in no way justifies being bitter or causing bitterness, but YHWH may and does use the troubles, trials (even the fiery trials), and temptations for our benefit when we love HIM and are called according to HIS PLAN. (HEBREWS).

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    Re: Job 3

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffcraig View Post
    Note that "instructions" and "feelings" are intrinsically different.
    Well noted. Is bitterness not a feeling?

    Do you want to clarify what is meant here in the OP question ?
    Is a lament bitterness..should we all just suck it up and look up? Or is there an actual purpose for processing feelings.


    When anything stirs up bitterness, or (unGodly, unRighteous) thoughts of bitterness, or plants a root of bitterness, don't expect benefit from it.
    Again is bitterness a thought or a feeling?

    At the same time, or always, remember YHWH'S PLAN - HE says HE turns everything, good and bad, to the good of those who love HIM, who are called according to HIS PURPOSE.
    I believe His Word is the truth. May He help us understand this the way He does.
    That in no way justifies being bitter or causing bitterness, but YHWH may and does use the troubles, trials (even the fiery trials), and temptations for our benefit when we love HIM and are called according to HIS PLAN. (HEBREWS).
    Again, it seems that bitterness is not accepting something that God has a way to help us get through? That would be a process that is within His ways...Glad you shared here I feel we may be communicating better.
    Peace to you!

    John 12:46
    “I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.”



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    Re: Job 3

    I think the problem/difference with what Job did is that towards the end Job began questioning what God was doing AND Job began to justify himself.

    Job 40:1-8 Then the Lord said to Job, “Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty? Let him who reproves God answer it.” ... "Will you really annul My judgment? Will you condemn Me that you may be justified?"
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

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    Re: Job 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    I think the problem/difference with what Job did is that towards the end Job began questioning what God was doing AND Job began to justify himself.

    Job 40:1-8 Then the Lord said to Job, “Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty? Let him who reproves God answer it.” ... "Will you really annul My judgment? Will you condemn Me that you may be justified?"
    Good point. Job had been defending himself for so long with his "friends" he stepped into an area that was beyond his scope of understanding-- God's purpose. I think perhaps Job felt abandoned by God and went to absolving himself before Him which put Job in the place of God rather than in his true place of creature.
    Peace to you!

    John 12:46
    “I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.”



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