Page 10 of 18 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415161718 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 265

Thread: Sinless Perfection

  1. #136
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    In the Midwest.
    Posts
    5,332

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    He was very likely referring specifically to her adultery.
    Exactly.

    What would have happened if she had said, Ohh it's in my nature to commit adultery and therefore I'm going to commit adultery. Everyone commits adultery, so Jesus must not have meant what He said...
    Nobody forced her to commit adultery. It was her choice. So the in her nature argument to commit adultery doesn't work.

    This is the very thing that people do with the idea of Go and sin no more. Just insert "sin" where it says "commit adultery and I think you'll see what I mean. "OOh it's my nature to commit sin and therefore I am going to sin.
    Galatians 5:17 - For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Romans 7:6 - But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. The battle is real.

    Everyone commits sin, so Jesus must not have meant what He said in 1 John 3:9 and elsewhere..."
    1 John 3:9 (NASB) - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. The idea of "practice" is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. The present tense describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. This does not mean that we never sin at all. If that was the case, then 1 John 2:1 would be superfluous.

    People make excuses for their sin.
    Some people do, not everyone.

    They say, "Jesus died to pay the penalty," willfully forgetting that if you sin willfully after having received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains.
    To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidently fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. No repentance, just bring it on. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are been born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

    They teach and practice that grace is a license for sinning (see Jude 1:4).
    Some people do, not everyone and grace is not a license to sin.

    Nevertheless God is calling all men everywhere to repent.
    Repent does not mean become sinless 100% of the time or else. Those who have repented are trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and practice righteousness and not sin (Acts 11:17,18; 1 John 3:7-10).
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

  2. #137
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    13,661

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    ....Personally I don't believe anyone has ever truly sinned and their conscince didn't prick them concerning the issue either before or after they did it (or both). The trick is to be sensitive to your conscience.
    Are you sure? What about the apostle Paul?

    Rom 7:7-11 ...I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 And I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive, and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, deceived me, and through it killed me.
    NASB

    His conscience didn't prick him about coveting until after he read in the Law that coveting was wrong.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  3. #138
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,601

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    See 1 Corinthians 2:14.
    I'm reading the Bible. What are you reading? What do you mean, indwelling sin?

  4. #139

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I'm reading the Bible. What are you reading? What do you mean, indwelling sin?
    The inclination that is in us making us prone to desire to sin, whether that inclination be dead or alive.

  5. #140

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    The point is that sin done in ignorance isn't known until revealed, and there's no suggestion in Scripture that it happens once, then never again. This is what the sinless live view can't account for, no matter how it presses on with 'The Holy Spirit will tell you!' Well, duh, of course He will.

    And be careful what you surmise about me from my posts; I wouldn't want you to form the wrong opinion of me, and as a result cause you to sin without knowing it.
    Sin committed in ignorance is to be repented of once it is found out.

  6. #141
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,433

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    Sin committed in ignorance is to be repented of once it is found out.
    Yes, but it doesn't read 'sinless perfection'.

  7. #142

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Exactly.

    Nobody forced her to commit adultery. It was her choice. So the in her nature argument to commit adultery doesn't work.

    Galatians 5:17 - For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Romans 7:6 - But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. The battle is real.

    1 John 3:9 (NASB) - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. The idea of "practice" is to perform repeatedly or habitually and thus describes repetition or continuous action. The present tense describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. This does not mean that we never sin at all. If that was the case, then 1 John 2:1 would be superfluous.

    Some people do, not everyone.

    To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidently fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. No repentance, just bring it on. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are been born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

    Some people do, not everyone and grace is not a license to sin.

    Repent does not mean become sinless 100% of the time or else. Those who have repented are trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and practice righteousness and not sin (Acts 11:17,18; 1 John 3:7-10).
    What I hear you saying is that if I commit a one-time sin it doesn't matter very much because it is not the HABITUAL practice of sin. So then the sin that I am thinking about doing in a few minutes I can do without any qualm of conscience because after all it is not in the habitual sense that I will be doing it but it will only be a one-time event.

    I therefore have a free reign to commit sin as long as it isn't "habitual". I can gamble one day, watch porn the next, and the next day actually capitulate with a hooker--because each of these things are just one-time events and actually not related to each other in the sense of they are not a habit because they are only one-time events in my life. As long as I variate my sins I can go back to gambling the next day and it is not a habit because I placed other sins in between...I am not saying that people consciously think this way, but they do subconsciously. And they do so because of this doctrine that we ought not to deal with sin as severley as cutting off your hand when it offends you because it is only "habitual sin" that we have to worry about...and therefore also in this doctrine it takes more time to identify the dangerous sins because you have to practice it for a while before you actually admit to yourself that it was a "habitual sin" all along. Now I suggest reading Proverbs 5:22 which tells me the same thing as John 8:34 in a slightly better way.

  8. #143

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    Yes, but it doesn't read 'sinless perfection'.
    It actually reads "sanctified wholy" which some consider to tbe the same thiing.

  9. #144

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Are you sure? What about the apostle Paul?

    Rom 7:7-11 ...I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 And I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive, and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, deceived me, and through it killed me.
    NASB

    His conscience didn't prick him about coveting until after he read in the Law that coveting was wrong.
    Did I say "immediately"?

    Of course for the conscience that needs a boost, the law can be a help.

    I think that Paul's conscince was capable of accusing or else excusing him even apart from the tenth commandment. What Romans 7:7-11 is talking about is the WET PAINT PRINCIPLE...sin's capacity to take the law and use it to bring us into temptation. It is not necessarily saying that the law is necessary for us to know the diffrrence between right and wrong...see Romans 2:14-16.

  10. #145

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    But isn't the theology of those who hold to sinless perfection, is that believers 'can no longer sin' after repentance. Even sins committed in ignorance?



    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    Sin committed in ignorance is to be repented of once it is found out.

  11. #146
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,433

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    It actually reads "sanctified wholy" which some consider to tbe the same thiing.
    Alright, then it doesn't read 'sanctified wholly'.

  12. #147

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    But in 2 Cor, he is confirmed to be a brother.

    2 Cor 2:5-11

    5 But if any has caused sorrow, he has caused sorrow not to me, but in some degree — in order not to say too much — to all of you. 6 Sufficient for such a one is this punishment which was inflicted by the majority, 7 so that on the contrary you should rather forgive and comfort him, lest somehow such a one be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 Wherefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him. 9 For to this end also I wrote that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things. 10 But whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ, 11 in order that no advantage be taken of us by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his schemes.
    NASB

    Paul couldn't tell in the 1st letter and therefore wrote "so called brother". But apparently the man repented, revealing himself to indeed, be a brother. Paul quickly forgave him and had to encourage the Corinthians to forgive him in the 2nd letter.
    Maybe he was a "false brother" (2 Corinthians 11:26) before that and when he repented he became a genuine brother.

  13. #148

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    Alright, then it doesn't read 'sanctified wholly'.
    Yes it does---in 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24.

  14. #149

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    But isn't the theology of those who hold to sinless perfection, is that believers 'can no longer sin' after repentance. Even sins committed in ignorance?
    A person can't get saved by repenting of sins committed in ignorance?

  15. #150
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,433

    Re: Sinless Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    Yes it does---in 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24.
    But where does that entail sinless perfection?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Matthew 7:18 and sinless perfection
    By mailmandan in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Oct 29th 2016, 08:20 PM
  2. What does the Bible say about sinless perfection?
    By ThyWordIsTruth in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: Jul 27th 2016, 07:52 PM
  3. Sinless perfection in this life
    By reformedct in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 152
    Last Post: Jul 26th 2016, 07:53 PM
  4. Sinless Perfection 1 John 3:9?
    By Walley10 in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: Apr 9th 2013, 09:25 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •