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Thread: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

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    The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
    10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
    11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


    Before we get to this part, let's first look at this part as well.

    Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    The question at this point, the scene in Daniel 7:9-10, is it during this same scene that the little horn is slain, , and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame? If the answer is yes, this makes the scene in Daniel 7:9-10 involving the 2nd coming and what follows.

    Daniel 7:15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
    16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.


    Verse 16 clearly says this...So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. Which then means what follows verse 16 is the interpretation of the things that have preceded verse 15 and 16, which of course includes Daniel 7:8-12.

    So let's look for some timing clues after verse 16 which helps to explain the timing of Daniel 7:9-12 in particular.

    A good place to start would be per the following.

    Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

    Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
    22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    We already know from verse 18 that the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. But the question is, when though? If we consider verse 21 first, we know it couldn't be meaning before or during the time the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them. That only leaves one option, something has to happen that causes the little horn to no longer retain the ability to make war and prevail against them, thus they are they able to possess the kingdom at that point.

    The answer is found right in the next verse, verse 22....Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    Verse 22 obviously has to be meaning the 2nd coming when it says..Until the Ancient of days came. And since this is the interpretation of what preceded verse 15 and 16, what is it the interpretation of then? Is it not the interpretation of verses 9 thru 12?


    Let's look at from this angle.

    Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    The interpretation...

    Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

    Now let's look at this..

    Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
    10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
    11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

    The interpretation...

    Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    IOW, Daniel 7:9 is meaning the 2nd coming according to verse 22.

    I want to now try and show how this also connects with Revelation 20 as well.

    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


    Let's start here...

    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them(Revelation 20:4)

    Compare that with...

    I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit(Daniel 7:9)

    And the following in Revelation 20:4 as well..

    and judgment was given unto them(Revelation 20:4)

    Compare that with...

    the judgment was set, and the books were opened.(Daniel 7:9)

    and judgment was given to the saints of the most High(Daniel 7:22)

    It seems to me then, the timing in Daniel 7:9-12 appears to connected with the 2nd coming and what follows that.

    So does anyone agree with me, or feel I'm in the ballpark at least? Or do most feel the scene in Daniel 7:10 is not meaning the 2nd coming and what follows and all, but is meaning the scene in Rev 5 instead, where the scene is connected with Jesus' ascension back into heaven and not the physical 2nd coming?

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    The interpretation...

    Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

    Now let's look at this..

    Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
    10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
    11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
    12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

    The interpretation...

    Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
    I just want to point out Daniel 7:21-22 is not *the interpretation* This is just Daniel restating what he saw.

    This is the *Interpretation*

    Daniel 7:23 Thus he said: ‘As for the fourth beast,there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all the kingdoms, and it shall devour the whole earth, and trample it down, and break it to pieces. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise, and another shall arise after them; he shall be different from the former ones, and shall put down three kings.25 He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law;and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
    26 But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away,to be consumed and destroyed to the end. 27 And the kingdom and the dominion
    and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
    ’[c]



    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    IOW, Daniel 7:9 is meaning the 2nd coming according to verse 22.
    Daniel is just restating what he saw the Interpretation is given in Daniel 7:23-27.

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I want to now try and show how this also connects with Revelation 20 as well.

    Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


    Let's start here...

    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them(Revelation 20:4)

    Compare that with...

    I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit(Daniel 7:9)

    And the following in Revelation 20:4 as well..

    and judgment was given unto them(Revelation 20:4)

    Compare that with...

    the judgment was set, and the books were opened.(Daniel 7:9)

    and judgment was given to the saints of the most High(Daniel 7:22)

    It seems to me then, the timing in Daniel 7:9-12 appears to connected with the 2nd coming and what follows that.
    Note the differences Here in Rev 20:4 the Saints are given Judgment but the Ancient of Days is not present. There are no thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. There is also no Judgment being set and no books being Opened.

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    So does anyone agree with me, or feel I'm in the ballpark at least? Or do most feel the scene in Daniel 7:10 is not meaning the 2nd coming and what follows and all, but is meaning the scene in Rev 5 instead, where the scene is connected with Jesus' ascension back into heaven and not the physical 2nd coming?
    You seem to be repeating this claim over and over again once more lets go over what the bible tells us happens at Jesus *Ascension*.

    Psalms 110: 1 The LORD says to my Lord:“Sit at my right hand,until I make your enemies your footstool.


    Matthew 26 :64 "You have said it yourself," Jesus answered. "But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Mark 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.

    Luke 22:69 But from now on the Son of Man shall be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”

    Acts 2:32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

    Hebrews 1:3
    He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

    Ephesians 1:20 T
    hat he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places.

    There is no mention of Jesus Acension in Rev 5 or in Daniel 7. Both passages are speaking of the Judgement carried out By the son of Man at his Parousias. Note how in Rev 5 Jesus is standing not sitting =).

    Rev 5:6
    And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
    Last edited by Jesuslovesus; Feb 20th 2017 at 05:24 PM.

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post

    [...]

    It seems to me then, the timing in Daniel 7:9-12 appears to connected with the 2nd coming and what follows that.

    So does anyone agree with me, or feel I'm in the ballpark at least? Or do most feel the scene in Daniel 7:10 is not meaning the 2nd coming and what follows and all, but is meaning the scene in Rev 5 instead, where the scene is connected with Jesus' ascension back into heaven and not the physical 2nd coming?
    You are right, this is end times prophecy, maybe it's interesting what the what the Companion Bible says in the margin about Daniel 7. The actual part is from 7:9 - 7:14 and I quote:

    Dan 7:9 « I continued looking till that the seats of judgment were set, and the Everlasting One took His seat, Whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool: His throne was like the fiery flame, and the wheels of the throne as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him: thousand thousands were ministering unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand were standing [ready for service] before Him: the Judge took His seat, and the books were opened. 11 I continued looking then because of the voice of the great words which the horn kept speaking: I continued looking even till that the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12 As concerning the rest of the beasts [the three co-existing], their dominion was caused to pass away: yet a lengthening of their life was given to them for an appointed season. 13 I was looking in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man was coming with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Everlasting One, and they brought Him near before Him. 14 And to Him was given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages, should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. »

    CB Margin:

    In the first year of Belshazzar. This was 429 B.C. See App-50. Daniel being eighty-four years old. Three years before the events of Dan 6. Compare Dan 5:30, Dan 5:31, and the notes on the other dates (Dan 8:1; Dan 9:1; Dan_10:1; Dan 11:1, &c).
    This vision (Dan 7) is still in Chaldee (the Gentile language), because it is the continuation of Dan 2:44, and shows what will take place in « the days of those kings » before the stone strikes the image. It brings us up to the end of Gentile dominion over Israel. Dan 8 is in Hebrew, because it specially concerns Israel.
    It is the writing of « Daniel the prophet » (Mat 24). This is directly stated by our Lord, Who, seven times in the Gospel of John, declared that what He spake were not His own words, but the Father’s (Joh 7:16; Joh 8:28, Joh 8:40, Joh 8:47; Joh 12:49; Joh 14:10, Joh 14:24; Joh 17:8. Compare Deu 18:18 and Isa 51:16).
    This member « B » (Dan 7:1-28; Dan 8:1-27, see chart below) consists of two visions. Each is distinct and complete in itself. (Z1, 7:1-28 ; Z2, 8:1-27).
    The dream of Nebuchadnezzar (Dan 2) was interpreted to him by Daniel; while the dream (or vision) of Daniel was interpreted to him by the Angel. The former referred to the beginning and duration of Gentile dominion over Israel; the latter concerns the end of it. See the Structure below. The second (Dan 8) was given two years later than the first (Compare Dan 7:1 with Dan 8:1), and is subsequent to the first, giving further details concerning « the latter time of their dominion » (i.e. that of the four beasts of the first vision in Dan 7). Further details are given in Dan 9, Dan 11, Dan 12.
    The interpretation is given in verses: Dan 7:7, Dan 7:17, Dan 7:18; and shows that these visions (Dan 7 and Dan 8) are still future, and are not therefore to be confounded with the dream of Dan 2. See the notes on verses: Dan 7:17, Dan 7:18, below.
    The interpretations given to us of these two separate visions need no further interpretation by us. The source of the dream is the source of the interpretation also. They are for us to understand and to believe. We may comment on the interpretations given, but not interpret them.

    strucdan7.jpg

    I thought it to be an interesting read, it does confirm your view which I think is correct.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    You are right, this is end times prophecy, maybe it's interesting what the what the Companion Bible says in the margin about Daniel 7. The actual part is from 7:9 - 7:14 and I quote:

    Dan 7:9 « I continued looking till that the seats of judgment were set, and the Everlasting One took His seat, Whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool: His throne was like the fiery flame, and the wheels of the throne as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him: thousand thousands were ministering unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand were standing [ready for service] before Him: the Judge took His seat, and the books were opened. 11 I continued looking then because of the voice of the great words which the horn kept speaking: I continued looking even till that the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12 As concerning the rest of the beasts [the three co-existing], their dominion was caused to pass away: yet a lengthening of their life was given to them for an appointed season. 13 I was looking in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man was coming with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Everlasting One, and they brought Him near before Him. 14 And to Him was given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages, should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. »

    CB Margin:

    In the first year of Belshazzar. This was 429 B.C. See App-50. Daniel being eighty-four years old. Three years before the events of Dan 6. Compare Dan 5:30, Dan 5:31, and the notes on the other dates (Dan 8:1; Dan 9:1; Dan_10:1; Dan 11:1, &c).
    This vision (Dan 7) is still in Chaldee (the Gentile language), because it is the continuation of Dan 2:44, and shows what will take place in « the days of those kings » before the stone strikes the image. It brings us up to the end of Gentile dominion over Israel. Dan 8 is in Hebrew, because it specially concerns Israel.
    It is the writing of « Daniel the prophet » (Mat 24). This is directly stated by our Lord, Who, seven times in the Gospel of John, declared that what He spake were not His own words, but the Father’s (Joh 7:16; Joh 8:28, Joh 8:40, Joh 8:47; Joh 12:49; Joh 14:10, Joh 14:24; Joh 17:8. Compare Deu 18:18 and Isa 51:16).
    This member « B » (Dan 7:1-28; Dan 8:1-27, see chart below) consists of two visions. Each is distinct and complete in itself. (Z1, 7:1-28 ; Z2, 8:1-27).
    The dream of Nebuchadnezzar (Dan 2) was interpreted to him by Daniel; while the dream (or vision) of Daniel was interpreted to him by the Angel. The former referred to the beginning and duration of Gentile dominion over Israel; the latter concerns the end of it. See the Structure below. The second (Dan 8) was given two years later than the first (Compare Dan 7:1 with Dan 8:1), and is subsequent to the first, giving further details concerning « the latter time of their dominion » (i.e. that of the four beasts of the first vision in Dan 7). Further details are given in Dan 9, Dan 11, Dan 12.
    The interpretation is given in verses: Dan 7:7, Dan 7:17, Dan 7:18; and shows that these visions (Dan 7 and Dan 8) are still future, and are not therefore to be confounded with the dream of Dan 2. See the notes on verses: Dan 7:17, Dan 7:18, below.
    The interpretations given to us of these two separate visions need no further interpretation by us. The source of the dream is the source of the interpretation also. They are for us to understand and to believe. We may comment on the interpretations given, but not interpret them.

    strucdan7.jpg

    I thought it to be an interesting read, it does confirm your view which I think is correct.

    Aristarkos
    Well said Aristarkos your attachment is great Notice how Daniel 7:9-14 is called *The Judgement of the Son of Man*

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Well said Aristarkos your attachment is great Notice how Daniel 7:9-14 is called *The Judgement of the Son of Man*
    That's why I attached it. Just wonder why it shows as a thumbnail...

    Aristarkos

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Verses 9 and 22 concur that the timing of the ancient of days (Jesus) sitting upon the throne takes place at the same time as judgment being given to the saints to sit upon thrones of judgment, according to the books, plural, not meaning the book of life. Verses 21 clarifies that war with the saints precedes verse 21 (&9) UNTIL the ancient of days did sit. In other words prior to him sitting upon the throne.

    Verse 11 then goes on to tell us when the little horn dies (is given to the burning flame). [I beheld TILL]. All of this seems to fit with the 2nd coming (erchomai) of our Lord. But it also fits in with the timing of the coming/parousia of our Lord. Verse 22 indicates that (and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom) takes place afterward in time. Take that with the jixt of the chapter, 4 Kings shall arise, to be understood as just that,. Kings and not kingdoms. Verse 12 distinguishes the king from his kingdom. Their Dominion was taken away for a time and season, yet their lives were prolonged. This time and season is easily understood if one sees this time as the time between the 2 comings, the parousia and the erchomai. Further insight is gained towards this understanding with the words "arise from the ground", the Arah, the earth, the dust.

    As far as this fourth beast [one of the 4 Kings to arise from the earth] goes, I understand him to be the same as the beast that was slain by the sword in Rev. 13-his body was given to the burning flame. This is not the lake of fire because Satan is not cast into the LoF until after the millennium. That is not the scope of time represented by this vision. Though some are inclined to think that this is the beast that IS cast into the lake of fire, it is not. He is the 7th AND the 8th heads of the beast of Rev 17. He is the one that had the wound by a sword and did live. What you have to understand is that he, as the 7th head of the 10 Kings of Rev 13, makes war against the saints (of the nation of Israel) and prevails against them UNTIL the ancient of days came [his coming, his parousia] and judgment was given to the saints of the most high. AND THE TIME CAME THAT THE SAINTS POSSESSED THE KINGDOM. At that time he is killed and sent to the place called destruction, also called perdition AND called the abyss, the bottomless pit! He is the 4th of the 4 Kings that shall arise from death. The fourth king rise ascend from perdition, the bottomless pit. Recall the words of Daniel 12, which takes place at this time,. "at that time many shall arise from the dust off the earth, some into shame and everlasting contempt [the resurrection of the wicked dead does not take place until a 1000 years later] and some to everlasting righteousness. At the sounding of the 7th trumpet is heralded "it is the time of judgment for the saints and prophets" --the righteous.
    Blessings to all who keepeth the sayings and the prophecy of His book!
    GB

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    That's why I attached it. Just wonder why it shows as a thumbnail...

    Aristarkos
    Just curious do you believe Rev 5, Happened at Jesus Ascension or will happen at his Parousia?

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Just curious do you believe Rev 5, Happened at Jesus Ascension or will happen at his Parousia?
    The Lord ascended ±33 AD, the revelation is thought to be written around 96 AD, others think around 70 AD whatever it is at least 37 years after the ascension. In Rev 1 we read:

    Rev 1:1 « THE REVELATION of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him, to point out to His servants what things must needs with speed come to pass; and He having sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John: »

    This leaves not much options does it?

    Aristarkos

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    The Lord ascended ±33 AD, the revelation is thought to be written around 96 AD, others think around 70 AD whatever it is at least 37 years after the ascension. In Rev 1 we read:

    Rev 1:1 « THE REVELATION of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him, to point out to His servants what things must needs with speed come to pass; and He having sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John: »

    This leaves not much options does it?

    Aristarkos
    I would say no guess that question was too easy.

    How about this passage?

    Daniel 7:14 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. 14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

    Do you believe this passage happened at Jesus Ascension or at will happen at his Parousia?

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    The question at this point, the scene in Daniel 7:9-10, is it during this same scene that the little horn is slain, , and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame? If the answer is yes, this makes the scene in Daniel 7:9-10 involving the 2nd coming and what follows.
    To get to the bottom of this we have to see who the little horn is to set a firm timeline. An alternative way to look at this would be to read Daniel 2:24-49 Daniel chapter 11 and 1st and 2nd book of Maccabees.

    I believe the little horn to be Antiochus Epiphanies not Rome or a future antichrist like most people think. He was the 11th king who uprooted 3 kings to become the 8th king. He declared war upon the faithful Jews and was defeating them for 3 1/2 years and he desecrated the temple before he finally died. Judas the hammer Maccabees began an uprising and defeated him as we see in Daniel 11 and the book of Maccabees and took back their temple.

    Daniel 7:9-10 is not just a certain time but showing that the faithful to God will always persevere and that God is in control and will judge. All four of the beast are dealt with so The Father has always been on the throne even before the first beast was defeated so He was their before Daniels book was even written. Jesus who was on the other throne left it and came back. The reason that this vision is given in verse 9-10 is to give Daniel and the ones reading his book hope. Terrible things will happen in their future but God will help them and they will get through it.

    Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
    We already know from verse 18 that the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. But the question is, when though?
    In Daniel 2:44 we see when the kingdom which filled the whole earth started
    44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

    In the time of those kings meaning the four kingdoms of the statue in king Nebs dream. This started before Jesus' first advent with the faithful before the cross. When Jesus came He called it to Himself and spread it world wide. The rock crushed all of those kingdoms how could Jesus (the rock) destroy those kingdoms if He didn't come until hundreds of years after they excised? It started with Daniel and his friends and their offspring who survived the four kingdoms as we see Daniel was still around after Babylon was long gone.

    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them(Revelation 20:4)

    Compare that with...

    I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit(Daniel 7:9)
    Jesus is who the other throne is for and in Daniel 7:13-14
    13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

    We see Jesus ascending back to His throne and is given authority after His death and resurrection as we also see in Revelation chapter 5 and Revelation 12:5 and verse10.

    and judgment was given to the saints of the most High(Daniel 7:22)
    This shows that they will over come the Syrian beast he will be judged and die but they will carry on.

    The books of Maccabees will help to understand.

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Well said Aristarkos your attachment is great Notice how Daniel 7:9-14 is called *The Judgement of the Son of Man*
    That is just someone interpretation and not biblical authority

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    That is just someone interpretation and not biblical authority
    The bible is clear on this subject.

    Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    Ecclesiastes 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    1 Cor 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the proper time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.


    2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.


    The fact that your interpretation deny's the role Jesus plays in this passage shows that its not *biblical authority*

    The bible in Daniel 7 Clearly shows that the world will indeed be judged by the Son of Man.

    Daniel 7:26 But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end.
    27 And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;
    his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

    This clearly didn't happen during the reign of A4E.

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    That is just someone interpretation and not biblical authority
    Hello Marty,

    The structure is not someone's interpretation but Divine design, the text from the margin is, that's why I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos
    I thought it to be an interesting read, it does confirm your view which I think is correct.
    Aristarkos

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    I just want to point out Daniel 7:21-22 is not *the interpretation* This is just Daniel restating what he saw.

    This is the *Interpretation*

    Daniel 7:23 Thus he said: ‘As for the fourth beast,there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth, which shall be different from all the kingdoms, and it shall devour the whole earth, and trample it down, and break it to pieces. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise, and another shall arise after them; he shall be different from the former ones, and shall put down three kings.25 He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law;and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
    26 But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away,to be consumed and destroyed to the end. 27 And the kingdom and the dominion
    and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
    ’[c]



    Daniel is just restating what he saw the Interpretation is given in Daniel 7:23-27.

    After looking at the chapter again, it looks like you may be correct. It does seem like the interpretation begins with verse 23 just like you said. Does this mean Daniel 7:22 is not the same scene as Daniel 7:9-12 after all? Not certain yet. What's interesting is this. In verse 11 it is the final fate of the little horn. In verse 20 and 21 this is clearly speaking of a time preceding verse 11. One thing that verse 21 and 22 proves, is that the saints don't possess the kingdom until the little horn is destroyed first, as per verse 11. that clearly makes verse 22 meaning the 2nd coming. The question is, is Daniel 7:9-10 a scene connected with the 2nd coming as well? We know for a fact, or at least should anyway, verse 11 is connected with the 2nd coming since this seems to be referring to Rev 19 for one, when the beast and FP are taken and cast into the LOF. I still tend to think A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him, in verse 11, this could be meaning the LOF, though I'm not entirely certain of that..

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    After looking at the chapter again, it looks like you may be correct. It does seem like the interpretation begins with verse 23 just like you said. Does this mean Daniel 7:22 is not the same scene as Daniel 7:9-12 after all? Not certain yet. What's interesting is this. In verse 11 it is the final fate of the little horn. In verse 20 and 21 this is clearly speaking of a time preceding verse 11. One thing that verse 21 and 22 proves, is that the saints don't possess the kingdom until the little horn is destroyed first, as per verse 11. that clearly makes verse 22 meaning the 2nd coming. The question is, is Daniel 7:9-10 a scene connected with the 2nd coming as well? We know for a fact, or at least should anyway, verse 11 is connected with the 2nd coming since this seems to be referring to Rev 19 for one, when the beast and FP are taken and cast into the LOF. I still tend to think A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him, in verse 11, this could be meaning the LOF, though I'm not entirely certain of that..
    I believe the context of the whole vision is the Second coming of Jesus, It begins with the Court sitting in Judgment, The judgement being given in Favor of the Saints and then the time come when the Saints *Process the Kingdom*. All of this speaks to the Parousia of the Christ since we know from numerous bible passages that Jesus shall Judge the world on that *Day*. Daniel 7:19-22 is just Daniel asking the (whatever it is) standing nearby specifically about the 4th beast. And Daniel relates what he just saw in the vision before being given the *interpretation*

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