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Thread: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

  1. #286
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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Not sure why you take so much Joy in insulting me, but my arguments still stand you can choose to believe as you wish. A passage for you in Parting =).

    1 Timothy 6:3-6.
    I most certainly have no inclination to be insolent either to you or anyone else. It is unbecoming and not in my character but if you read an extract from my post as insulting, then I give you my unreserved apologies.

    What I alluded to by you *it being too hard for you to comprehend* is simply the fact that once you form an opinion on any subject, you rarely consider other arguments.

  2. #287

    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Trivalee,

    You are right!

    The GWT is the Lord God (Son) judging only the dead. That happens on the same throne in Heaven after He had earlier judged the saints and then the world.

    The Father does not judge. John 5:22 KJV declares:
    For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

    So, wherever it is written that God judges, or even afflicts, it is the Son who is being referred to. He is also God!
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

  3. #288
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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Trivalee,

    You are right!

    The GWT is the Lord God (Son) judging only the dead. That happens on the same throne in Heaven after He had earlier judged the saints and then the world.

    The Father does not judge. John 5:22 KJV declares:
    For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

    So, wherever it is written that God judges, or even afflicts, it is the Son who is being referred to. He is also God!
    Thanks for searching out this wonderful passage. It will be interesting to hear JLU take on it.

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Thanks for searching out this wonderful passage. It will be interesting to hear JLU take on it.
    Not necessarily disputing it's likely meaning Jesus is the one doing the judging at the GWTJ, yet there is still this passage.


    1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

    It does say... the Father , who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work ...while in Revelation 20 it says the following.

    Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

  5. #290

    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    The Son judges exactly as the Father would. The Father is able to claim ownership of a judgment made on His behalf by the Son.

    The Father is unseen : whosoever sees the Son (on the throne) has seen the Father.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Jn 5
    30 “I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    We could swap claims and counter-claims till the chickens come home to roost without getting anywhere. You have the tenacity of a bulldog (no disrespect intended).
    I take that as a compliment =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    So am gonna cut to the chase. Would you care to explain your understanding of the commission Jesus was to undertake in these passages, given according to you God is everywhere in Revelation?:

    Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals.
    Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
    Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
    Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
    Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
    Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
    TY this is my argument from the beginning This is the seen Found in Daniel 7:2-14. Notice God on the Throne Jesus carrying out the Judgement (Opening the seals Reads the trumpets then Returning to the Earth to Reign) Rev 20:11 is *The End*. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.




    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I most certainly have no inclination to be insolent either to you or anyone else. It is unbecoming and not in my character but if you read an extract from my post as insulting, then I give you my unreserved apologies.

    What I alluded to by you *it being too hard for you to comprehend* is simply the fact that once you form an opinion on any subject, you rarely consider other arguments.
    To be fair you constantly accuse me of not addressing your arguments when you don't even address mine. For example Now your arguing that Jesus is the One on the GWT 2 which you connect to the Judgement happening in Daniel 9:2-14. For all of my arguments your basically just saying *Divine Ambiguity* As in we are unsure who is on the throne while simultaneously claiming you know who is on the throne.

    Here is my point. None of these are my opinions Just yours.

    1. I don't believe that Daniel 7:2-14. Is the same as Rev 20:11 nor have i seen any proof from you or anyone else in which these passages could remotely be referring to the same event.

    2. I believe Daniel 7:2-14 is Paralleled or Fulfilled in Rev 4-11 with God the father sitting on the Throne and Jesus in the Midst of the Throne carrying out the Judgment.

    3. You are clearly not addressing what i believe or how it is in anyway incorrect. We are clearly just both considering solely your positions, and only addressing your positions.

    So i'm not sure how this accusation that I don't *consider others arguments* is in anyway true, we are clearly only considering your arguments, and only your position we just disagree for the reasons i clearly listed repeatly (E.G where in Rev do you find any mention of Jesus sitting on the throne). Whenever you feel like addressing mine position and *considering my argument* i'd be happy to explain what i believe to you and you can explain to me why your disagree.

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Not necessarily disputing it's likely meaning Jesus is the one doing the judging at the GWTJ, yet there is still this passage.


    1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

    It does say... the Father , who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work ...while in Revelation 20 it says the following.

    Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    I recollect that you are the first to raise the interchangeable use of God's name in scripture. You even provided several scriptures to prove it. Jesus said that GOD judges no one. All judgment has been given to him. I personally have not read anywhere that the Godhead will judge the world in the end times.

    Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed ALL judgment unto the Son:

    The above is enough to end this debate. Jesus is not saying he will judge some and God the GWT.

  9. #294

    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Both the Father and Son (and probably the Holy Spirit) will preside at the GWTJ.
    Whosoever was not found in the [Lambs] book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Judgment of the Son!
    Whosoever was not found in the book of life was judged by their works [as being in the records being kept by the Father]. There are many scriptures that point to the Lord God keeping track of the deeds of men. "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account thereof in the day of judgment ". Judgment of the Father. Once the eternal judgment of destiny of life or damnation is determined by the names found written in the book of life, their degree of punishment or reward will then be determined by the Father.
    Blessings to all who keeps the sayings and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I recollect that you are the first to raise the interchangeable use of God's name in scripture. You even provided several scriptures to prove it. Jesus said that GOD judges no one. All judgment has been given to him. I personally have not read anywhere that the Godhead will judge the world in the end times.

    Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed ALL judgment unto the Son:

    The above is enough to end this debate. Jesus is not saying he will judge some and God the GWT.
    Yea i don't dispute this, Its just clear as Day to me that God the Father is the one on the throne : Jesus could be present he could Open the books ect but The God head is still on the throne. This is clear as day from this passage. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    The earth and Heavens didn't flee away from the face of Jesus he's just clearly been ruling for 1000 years.

    Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

  11. #296
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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    TY this is my argument from the beginning This is the seen Found in Daniel 7:2-14. Notice God on the Throne Jesus carrying out the Judgement (Opening the seals Reads the trumpets then Returning to the Earth to Reign) Rev 20:11 is *The End*. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    Your assumption that God came to earth to reign based on Rev 20:11 is incorrect. You have refused to acknowledge the countless scriptures from the OT to the NT telling us that Jesus will judge on the Last Day. It is Jesus who is evident in Dan 7:9-10. But the Godhead and Jesus feature in v-14. I am surprised you are still claiming that God delivers up the kingdom to Jesus when I have proved earlier that the reverse is the case.

    1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    1 Cor 15:25 For he (JESUS) must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    1 Cor 15:27 For he (Godhead) hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he (Godhead) is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    A diligent examination of the above should leave no doubt that God has given Jesus power (verse 27) to subject everything (EXCEPT GOD HIMSELF) under him and deliver the kingdom to God. It might interest you to pay attention to v-26 the last enemy to be destroyed is death. We know that when Jesus judges on the GWT, the last to be judged is death and hell (Rev 20:14). So when v-28 says "when ALL things are subdued unto him" we understand that *subdue* in the passage includes final judgement. After that, Jesus himself shall be subject to God that put all things under him.

    These are not conjectured, but plain FACTS according to scripture.

    To be fair you constantly accuse me of not addressing your arguments when you don't even address mine. For example Now your arguing that Jesus is the One on the GWT 2 which you connect to the Judgement happening in Daniel 9:2-14. For all of my arguments your basically just saying *Divine Ambiguity* As in we are unsure who is on the throne while simultaneously claiming you know who is on the throne.

    Here is my point. None of these are my opinions Just yours.

    1. I don't believe that Daniel 7:2-14. Is the same as Rev 20:11 nor have i seen any proof from you or anyone else in which these passages could remotely be referring to the same event.

    2. I believe Daniel 7:2-14 is Paralleled or Fulfilled in Rev 4-11 with God the father sitting on the Throne and Jesus in the Midst of the Throne carrying out the Judgment.

    3. You are clearly not addressing what i believe or how it is in anyway incorrect. We are clearly just both considering solely your positions, and only addressing your positions.

    So i'm not sure how this accusation that I don't *consider others arguments* is in anyway true, we are clearly only considering your arguments, and only your position we just disagree for the reasons i clearly listed repeatly (E.G where in Rev do you find any mention of Jesus sitting on the throne). Whenever you feel like addressing mine position and *considering my argument* i'd be happy to explain what i believe to you and you can explain to me why your disagree.
    You seem to anchor your case on the claim that God is sitting on the throne in Rev alone. According to you, Jesus is nowhere to be found on the throne in Revelation, ergo, the judge on the GWT must be God. I chose to another approach by going all out to prove with several scriptures that Jesus is the one to judge on the GWT and consequently, the Sovereign on the *throne*.

    1. You deny that Dan 7:9-10 is fulfilled in Rev 20:11? You are wrong. What unites the OT and NT passages is the Book of judgment opened in both of them.
    2. I am restricting my case to Dan 7:9-10 because only these two verses tell about the judgement. And Dan 7:9-10 has nothing in common with Rev 4:11.
    3. I have persistently addressed what you erroneously believe to be correct as actually incorrect and provided scriptures to prove it.

    Thanks to goldenboy who provided the smoking gun yesterday (5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son). I notice as usual that you have chosen to ignore the passage despite it being posted repeatedly.

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Your assumption that God came to earth to reign based on Rev 20:11 is incorrect. You have refused to acknowledge the countless scriptures from the OT to the NT telling us that Jesus will judge on the Last Day. It is Jesus who is evident in Dan 7:9-10. But the Godhead and Jesus feature in v-14. I am surprised you are still claiming that God delivers up the kingdom to Jesus when I have proved earlier that the reverse is the case.

    1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    1 Cor 15:25 For he (JESUS) must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    1 Cor 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    1 Cor 15:27 For he (Godhead) hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he (Godhead) is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    1 Cor 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    A diligent examination of the above should leave no doubt that God has given Jesus power (verse 27) to subject everything (EXCEPT GOD HIMSELF) under him and deliver the kingdom to God. It might interest you to pay attention to v-26 the last enemy to be destroyed is death. We know that when Jesus judges on the GWT, the last to be judged is death and hell (Rev 20:14). So when v-28 says "when ALL things are subdued unto him" we understand that *subdue* in the passage includes final judgement. After that, Jesus himself shall be subject to God that put all things under him.
    You really need to pay attention to my post Man i legit just said the exact same thing you did, only that God the Father is the one on the Throne not Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    These are not conjectured, but plain FACTS according to scripture.
    Correct it is a fact that God the Father sits on his throne. Jesus Stands in the Midst of the Throne. Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
    17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    You seem to anchor your case on the claim that God is sitting on the throne in Rev alone. According to you, Jesus is nowhere to be found on the throne in Revelation, ergo, the judge on the GWT must be God. I chose to another approach by going all out to prove with several scriptures that Jesus is the one to judge on the GWT and consequently, the Sovereign on the *throne*.
    This is what i mean, you don't actually want to read any of the things i post. You constatanly saying things that are untrue about what i've stated to you countless times. None of these are my claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    1. You deny that Dan 7:9-10 is fulfilled in Rev 20:11? You are wrong. What unites the OT and NT passages is the Book of judgment opened in both of them.
    Correct these are 2 very different passages. So your wrong =)


    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    2. I am restricting my case to Dan 7:9-10 because only these two verses tell about the judgement. And Dan 7:9-10 has nothing in common with Rev 4:11.
    4-11 REV CHAP 4 to CHAP 11 please try to actually read other people posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    3. I have persistently addressed what you erroneously believe to be correct as actually incorrect and provided scriptures to prove it.
    You just once more completely misrepresented my postion so you still haven't even started to address it when you want to we can begin anytime you like =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Thanks to goldenboy who provided the smoking gun yesterday (5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son). I notice as usual that you have chosen to ignore the passage despite it being posted repeatedly.
    It wasn't goldenby but Glorious =)


    You still have not provided 1 passage that proves Jesus sits on the throne.

    Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    This is God the Father its a fact he's the one who *SITS ON THE THRONE* Jesus the Lamb is in the *Midst of the Throne*.
    1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

    Once more you have proven that Jesus *Judges* You have yet to prove that Jesus sits on the Throne. You don't seem able to tell the difference.

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    Both the Father and Son (and probably the Holy Spirit) will preside at the GWTJ.
    Whosoever was not found in the [Lambs] book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Judgment of the Son!
    Whosoever was not found in the book of life was judged by their works [as being in the records being kept by the Father]. There are many scriptures that point to the Lord God keeping track of the deeds of men. "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account thereof in the day of judgment ". Judgment of the Father. Once the eternal judgment of destiny of life or damnation is determined by the names found written in the book of life, their degree of punishment or reward will then be determined by the Father.
    Blessings to all who keeps the sayings and the prophecy of his book!
    GB
    Very good explanation. I have a curve ball for you. Who is the Alpha and Omega in Revelation?

    Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega...12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man

    Jesus, right?

    Revelation 21:6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

    All things were made thru Christ. Nothing that was made, was made without Him. That includes us. Who then is our Father?

    Isaiah 63:16 Doubtless You are our Father, Though Abraham was ignorant of us, And Israel does not acknowledge us. You, O Lord, are our Father; Our Redeemer from Everlasting is Your name.

    Who redeemed/paid for Israel?

    Isaiah 64:8 But now, O Lord, You are our Father; We are the clay, and You our potter; And all we are the work of Your hand.

    The mystery of God is very very interesting.

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    You really need to pay attention to my post Man i legit just said the exact same thing you did, only that God the Father is the one on the Throne not Jesus.

    Correct it is a fact that God the Father sits on his throne. Jesus Stands in the Midst of the Throne. Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
    17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

    This is what i mean, you don't actually want to read any of the things i post. You constatanly saying things that are untrue about what i've stated to you countless times. None of these are my claims.

    Correct these are 2 very different passages. So your wrong =)


    4-11 REV CHAP 4 to CHAP 11 please try to actually read other people posts.

    You just once more completely misrepresented my postion so you still haven't even started to address it when you want to we can begin anytime you like =)

    It wasn't goldenby but Glorious =)


    You still have not provided 1 passage that proves Jesus sits on the throne.

    Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    This is God the Father its a fact he's the one who *SITS ON THE THRONE* Jesus the Lamb is in the *Midst of the Throne*.
    1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

    Once more you have proven that Jesus *Judges* You have yet to prove that Jesus sits on the Throne. You don't seem able to tell the difference.
    My apologies to Glorious for attributing his passage to someone else.

    I find no more joy as this has turned into a rigmarole. I am satisfied that I have proved with sufficient scriptures that Jesus will judge on the GWT because every judgment is given him by God. Naturally, you can weave your theories and speculations to your heart's content, but it won't change the scriptural truth.

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    Re: The timing of Daniel 7:9-12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    My apologies to Glorious for attributing his passage to someone else.

    I find no more joy as this has turned into a rigmarole. I am satisfied that I have proved with sufficient scriptures that Jesus will judge on the GWT because every judgment is given him by God. Naturally, you can weave your theories and speculations to your heart's content, but it won't change the scriptural truth.
    See what i mean you refuse to address anyone positions but your own. Your're the one who does the same thing you accused me of here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    What I alluded to by you *it being too hard for you to comprehend* is simply the fact that once you form an opinion on any subject, you rarely consider other arguments.
    This fits you very well brother.

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