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Thread: Clouds and the physiical 2nd coming equals the rapture

  1. #151
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    Re: Clouds and the physiical 2nd coming equals the rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I do get your point in regards to number 4 and 5 above. Maybe a valid point, maybe not. Let me think on it a bit first.

    In the meantime though, just because there are some signs in heaven, that hardly makes everything in Rev 12 taking place in heaven then. I still can't figure out how you are concluding this..."Exactly but the Women in this passage is clearly *In HEAVEN* as the Dragon is clearly *IN HEAVEN* so the child is clearly born *IN HEAVEN* while Jesus was clearly born as you Stated *ON EARTH*"?

    Where does it ever indicate the child is clearly born in heaven? Why would the child be born in heaven? I don't get it?

    You did read this in verse 4 though, didn't you?

    Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth

    Why bring the earth into this if none of this involves the earth at that particular time? That would be rather weird of John to do so, wouldn't you think?
    It does involve the Earth, the Dragon cast the stars *to earth* implying first the stars were *in Heaven* and then cast *to earth*

    The women flees to the wilderness ON earth, where the dragon pursues here after he is Cast *to Earth*.

    Rev 12:1-5 clearly all take place in Heaven. Then in Rev 12:6 the women is the first one to *flee to earth* then the Dragon and his angels are *cast to earth* where the women is. And a great sign appeared in heaven, And another sign appeared in heaven

    But before that we once more get a clear Reference to where the Dragon was namely *IN HEAVEN*
    Rev 12:7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him

    Rev 12:10-12 speaks of what occurs *in Heaven* after the Dragon is cast down.

    It says “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them!

    What does the bible say in Regards to the Kingdom of God.

    Jesus answered him,[B] “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

    Did we see anyone in this passage being *Born*? Why yes the Man-child!

    Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.

    But like i said this isn't speculations this Sign is actually playing out in the Heavens RIGHT NOW. Jupiter the King planet is in the *Womb* of the Constellation virgo, and will be in there for 9 months. This isn't something Man can do only God.

    Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.

  2. #152
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    Re: Clouds and the physiical 2nd coming equals the rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Rev 12:1-5 clearly all take place in Heaven.


    I seriously think you need to seriously rethink some of this a bit then.

    Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


    If this part happens in heaven...and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


    Expain how that makes sense in light of the following verse?

    Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    If her child is born in heaven, and also according to you, everything mentioned in verses 1-5 clearly all take place in Heaven, how does her child get caught up unto God, and to his throne????

    Would not God and His throne be in heaven? And isn't that where you are claiming the man child is as well, in heaven? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to conclude, that in order for the man child to get caught up to God and His throne in heaven, this demands the man child is somewhere else other than heaven at the time? Where would be a logical place for the man child to be when he is caught up to God and His throne in heaven? The moon? Mars? Pluto? Would those be logical choices? Probably not, right? Ummmm...what about the earth then? Would that be a logical place the man child might be at at the time when he is initially caught up to God and His throne in heaven? I think so. Don't you as well?

  3. #153
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    Re: Clouds and the physiical 2nd coming equals the rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I seriously think you need to seriously rethink some of this a bit then.

    Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    If this part happens in heaven...and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


    Expain how that makes sense in light of the following verse?

    Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    If her child is born in heaven, and also according to you, everything mentioned in verses 1-5 clearly all take place in Heaven, how does her child get caught up unto God, and to his throne????

    Would not God and His throne be in heaven?
    And isn't that where you are claiming the man child is as well, in heaven? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to conclude, that in order for the man child to get caught up to God and His throne in heaven, this demands the man child is somewhere else other than heaven at the time? Where would be a logical place for the man child to be when he is caught up to God and His throne in heaven? The moon? Mars? Pluto? Would those be logical choices? Probably not, right? Ummmm...what about the earth then? Would that be a logical place the man child might be at at the time when he is initially caught up to God and His throne in heaven? I think so. Don't you as well?
    Is the war in Heaven in Gods throne? Did Satan get cast out of *in God's throne*? Was the Women ON Gods throne? LOL the man-child was Born In Heaven and caught up to God and to God's throne he wasn't on earth. The women was IN heaven The Dragon was in Heaven and the Man-Child was born in Heaven before being Caught up to God and to Gods throne. Which is *in heaven* But clearly a different location *in Heaven* Here is the bible to explain.

    Isaiah 14:13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;

    The throne of God is on the Mount of Assembly in the far Reaches of the North *IN HEAVEN*.

    Iow the Woman and the dragon were clearly *IN Heaven* but God's throne was in *Another Part of Heaven* Namely its the Mount of Assembly in the far Reaches of the North. No mention of the Man-Child being on earth though.


    Your argument here literally amounts to Jesus was born on earth and his Original birth happened in Bethlehem but his family fled to Egypt. Since Egypt isn't in Israel Jesus was *born in Heaven*.

    Its not a logical argument. Just like there are far more places on Earth besides Israel their are far more places in Heaven besides just God's throne.

    Heaven is much larger then Just God's throne, God's throne Is *IN Heaven* but the rest of these events don't take place *In Gods throne*. Yet they still clearly happen *In Heaven*.

    Rev 12:7
    Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back,8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.

  4. #154
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    Re: Clouds and the physiical 2nd coming equals the rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I seriously think you need to seriously rethink some of this a bit then.

    Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


    If this part happens in heaven...and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


    Expain how that makes sense in light of the following verse?

    Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    If her child is born in heaven, and also according to you, everything mentioned in verses 1-5 clearly all take place in Heaven, how does her child get caught up unto God, and to his throne????

    Would not God and His throne be in heaven? And isn't that where you are claiming the man child is as well, in heaven? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to conclude, that in order for the man child to get caught up to God and His throne in heaven, this demands the man child is somewhere else other than heaven at the time? Where would be a logical place for the man child to be when he is caught up to God and His throne in heaven? The moon? Mars? Pluto? Would those be logical choices? Probably not, right? Ummmm...what about the earth then? Would that be a logical place the man child might be at at the time when he is initially caught up to God and His throne in heaven? I think so. Don't you as well?
    Very logical. I think you may gave left out the only logical conclusion though. The woman gives birth to the child in heaven. That child is on His way to earth to gather the elect. Then the child is caught up to heaven and God's throne. Rev 12 is the picture of the 7th trumpet, the coming of Jesus on the clouds of heaven. But, many people do not realize this because they think the dragon and the beast come before Jesus' return. Revelation, Isaiah 16, and Daniel 12:1 all tell an opposite story to what many believe about which event comes first.

  5. #155

    Re: Clouds and the physiical 2nd coming equals the rapture

    Christ, the King, comes down to sit upon the throne. The man child is caught up to the throne. Therefore, and positionally, the throne is in the kingdom between the dwelling place of the King and where the man child is born.

    All three places are in the heavens. That is how come there are the first, second and third heavens. But, the dwelling place of Christ the King is higher.

    The man child is born in the second heaven that is in the everlasting dispensation of the end of the world. Wonders happen in the world.

    There is the pattern of God in which all things, places, ages and persons of God fit. Even scriptures must also fit. It comes by revelation from God.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

  6. #156
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    Re: Clouds and the physiical 2nd coming equals the rapture

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Does the Kingdom of Heaven come from Heaven or from earth? Lets go to the words of Jesus. John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.

    My kingdom is not *OUT OF* THIS WORLD.

    So where does Jesus receive his Kingdom in Heaven or on Earth?
    When Jesus addressed the Jews in John 18:36 he was referring to a spiritual kingdom which is not earthly. But when he returns, he will inherit his earthly kingdom - the millennium.

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