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Thread: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

  1. #1

    Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Hey, I've got a question about Matthew 12. In v. 6 Jesus says "I tell you that something greater than the temple is here" and in v. 8 He adds "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath". In my view Jesus was speaking about Himself in those two statements, and Pharisees who heard that, knew that very well. When I consider Jesus' words from Pharisee point of view I think that they should have perceived it as a blapshemy, because Jesus might have been assigning to Himself authority to not keeping the Law.

    Therefore my question is - why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus at that very moment? Or at least use that as an accusation during Jesus' judgement in front of Sanhedrin?

    God bless you.

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    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrooweq View Post
    Hey, I've got a question about Matthew 12. In v. 6 Jesus says "I tell you that something greater than the temple is here" and in v. 8 He adds "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath". In my view Jesus was speaking about Himself in those two statements, and Pharisees who heard that, knew that very well. When I consider Jesus' words from Pharisee point of view I think that they should have perceived it as a blapshemy, because Jesus might have been assigning to Himself authority to not keeping the Law.

    Therefore my question is - why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus at that very moment? Or at least use that as an accusation during Jesus' judgement in front of Sanhedrin?

    God bless you.
    John 19:11 Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above....

  3. #3

    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    John 19:11 Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above....
    Can you elaborate?

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    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrooweq View Post
    Hey, I've got a question about Matthew 12. In v. 6 Jesus says "I tell you that something greater than the temple is here" and in v. 8 He adds "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath". In my view Jesus was speaking about Himself in those two statements, and Pharisees who heard that, knew that very well. When I consider Jesus' words from Pharisee point of view I think that they should have perceived it as a blapshemy, because Jesus might have been assigning to Himself authority to not keeping the Law.

    Therefore my question is - why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus at that very moment? Or at least use that as an accusation during Jesus' judgement in front of Sanhedrin?

    God bless you.
    Hi there Mrooweq,

    The short answer would because Jesus's time [ to die ] had not yet come, [ i.e via stoning ] the prophesies were to be fulfilled ( Which they were at His Crucifixion ) Gods plan cannot be circumvented.


    >>> Twenty-eight PropheciesFulfilled On the Crucifixion DayOn the day of Jesus’ crucifixion, all the prophecies concerning His suffering werefulfilled in every detail—a lasting testimony that Jesus truly is the Messiah. <<<


    https://www.cbcg.org/franklin/SA/SA_28prophecies.pdf
    True Truth Exists & Can Be Found.

    A gentle answer turns away wrath; but a harsh word stirs up anger.
    Proverbs 15:1

    Faith-Hope-LOVE

    ~Praying for BDH~




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    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrooweq View Post
    Can you elaborate?
    Sure. Jesus came for a purpose. Being stoned before He fulfilled that purpose was not God's will. Therefore, God didn't allow the Pharisees the power to stone Him at that time. We think we have control, but we do not.

    The same is true when the Nazarenes wanted to throw Jesus off a cliff in Luke 4.

    Luke 4: 29 and rose up and thrust Him out of the city; and they led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw Him down over the cliff. 30 Then passing through the midst of them, He went His way.

    Their will to kill Jesus was superseded by God's will. So, Jesus just walked right thru their midst. No harm can come upon any of God's children outside of His will. God's will for Jesus is obvious. Jesus knew it. Therefore, Jesus had no fear of being stoned or thrown off a cliff. Jesus believed God and had faith. He was totally invincible until God's appointed time.

  6. #6

    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrooweq View Post
    .....When I consider Jesus' words from Pharisee point of view I think that they should have perceived it as a blapshemy, because Jesus might have been assigning to Himself authority to not keeping the Law.......
    JESUS never, not once, not ever, condoned breaking TORAH, nor teaching others to break TORAH.

    The oral corruption of the religious people, "traditions of men", which men had put OVER the BIBLE,
    and had dishonored and disobeyed YHWH thereby,
    those "traditions of men"
    is what
    JESUS did not honor nor keep.

    If JESUS had ever broken TORAH, or told others to break TORAH (like go ahead, drink real blood, or eat real human flesh)
    HE would have been GUILTY HIMSELF, and could not have REDEEMED ANYONE from their sin,
    nor could HIS BLOOD have been the ATONEMENT for anyone.

  7. #7

    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Hey, it is not a problem for me that Jesus wasn't stoned at that time. The problem is rather why authors of gospels don't give us any clue that Pharisees were heavily angry with Jesus because of those His statements. It is quite strange for me to think that it didn't matter for them when Jesus said that He is temple and Lord of the Sabbath and this way He justifies breaking the Law (or at least rabinic tradition). I hope you understand my point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffcraig View Post
    JESUS never, not once, not ever, condoned breaking TORAH, nor teaching others to break TORAH.

    The oral corruption of the religious people, "traditions of men", which men had put OVER the BIBLE,
    and had dishonored and disobeyed YHWH thereby,
    those "traditions of men"
    is what
    JESUS did not honor nor keep.

    If JESUS had ever broken TORAH, or told others to break TORAH (like go ahead, drink real blood, or eat real human flesh)
    HE would have been GUILTY HIMSELF, and could not have REDEEMED ANYONE from their sin,
    nor could HIS BLOOD have been the ATONEMENT for anyone.
    I know that Jesus (actually Yeshua) never broke the Law, and therefore it is mysterious for me why in Matthew 12 He jusitifies Himselft saying that He is the temple and Lord of the Sabbath.

  8. #8

    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrooweq View Post
    .... I know that Jesus (actually Yeshua) never broke the Law, and therefore it is mysterious for me why in Matthew 12 He jusitifies Himselft saying that He is the temple and Lord of the Sabbath.
    I just went and re-read the chapter again to be sure - JESUS simply told those opposing JESUS why they were wrong, and JESUS did not do that to justify HIMSELF (HE never did anything in HIS own defense -- everything all the time HE spoke, was what the FATHER gave JESUS to speak, without regard to whether anyone would listen or obey or even care. JESUS always spoke the FATHER'S WORD, no matter what the consequences (even death) - without even a sinful thought as if to disobey the FATHER ever, for any reason) .

    Those who were able to hear JESUS, could therefore repent (turn to YHWH(GOD) ) , and sin no more.
    (and JESUS' disciples then, and always, thru TODAY, benefit from HIS WORD).

    Those who were (and who TODAY are) opposed to JESUS, and not willing to hear the TRUTH, continued in their sin without forgiveness at that time. (some could have repented later, even after the crucifixion , and could have been forgiven.

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    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrooweq View Post
    Hey, it is not a problem for me that Jesus wasn't stoned at that time. The problem is rather why authors of gospels don't give us any clue that Pharisees were heavily angry with Jesus because of those His statements. It is quite strange for me to think that it didn't matter for them when Jesus said that He is temple and Lord of the Sabbath and this way He justifies breaking the Law (or at least rabinic tradition). I hope you understand my point of view.



    I know that Jesus (actually Yeshua) never broke the Law, and therefore it is mysterious for me why in Matthew 12 He jusitifies Himselft saying that He is the temple and Lord of the Sabbath.
    Oh I think they were quite angry..., they eventually got what they wanted...Him dead ( if I only for a little while ) There must have been a supernatural authority about Him that made them approach Him differently...He was clearly different and kept them off balance, making no mistakes, sinning not, yet making amazing claims.

    When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but that instead a riot was breaking out, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “You shall bear the responsibility.” 25All the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!” 26So Pilate released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged and handed Him over to be crucified. matt 27


    Luke 11:53-54
    When He left there, the scribes and the Pharisees began to be very hostile and to question Him closely on many subjects, plotting against Him to catch Him in something He might say.

    http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topic...o-Jesus-Christ
    True Truth Exists & Can Be Found.

    A gentle answer turns away wrath; but a harsh word stirs up anger.
    Proverbs 15:1

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    ~Praying for BDH~




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    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrooweq View Post
    Hey, it is not a problem for me that Jesus wasn't stoned at that time. The problem is rather why authors of gospels don't give us any clue that Pharisees were heavily angry with Jesus because of those His statements. It is quite strange for me to think that it didn't matter for them when Jesus said that He is temple and Lord of the Sabbath and this way He justifies breaking the Law (or at least rabinic tradition). I hope you understand my point of view.
    Ah. That is another matter entirely. I apologize for missing your point previously.

    The Pharisees regarded the Sabbath rules and restrictions much higher than anything else in the law. They could 'overlook' things like adultery, but heaven forbid a person to pick up 3 figs at one time, thus doing 'work' on the Sabbath. Seems ridiculous to us, but that is how it was back then. Even today, drive your car thru an Orthodox neighborhood in Israel on the Sabbath and see if your car doesn't get stoned. They regarded the sacrifice of obeying the Sabbath higher than even mercy or doing good.

    12:7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.

    12:11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

    Jesus was trying to teach them that mercy and doing good are more highly regarded to God than sacrificing all movements on the Sabbath. Later Jesus adds this....

    Matt 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

    Both gnats and camels are unclean animals to Jews. In Jesus' day, it was common for the Pharisees to stretch a cloth over a cup to strain out any gnats that may have inadvertently landed in their cup. They had laser like focus on the minor points of the law and missed the greater meaning. Thus swallowing a camel by comparison. That is why they wanted to kill Jesus for such a minor thing, while leaving Him alone on the major things. They had it all upside down.

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    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrooweq View Post
    Hey, it is not a problem for me that Jesus wasn't stoned at that time. The problem is rather why authors of gospels don't give us any clue that Pharisees were heavily angry with Jesus because of those His statements.
    Did you miss this verse? It's right after Jesus said that:

    But the Pharisees went out and conspired against him, how to destroy him. Jesus, aware of this, withdrew from there. (12:14, 15)
    Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone.
    The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
    And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Ph 4

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    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrooweq View Post
    Hey, it is not a problem for me that Jesus wasn't stoned at that time. The problem is rather why authors of gospels don't give us any clue that Pharisees were heavily angry with Jesus because of those His statements. It is quite strange for me to think that it didn't matter for them when Jesus said that He is temple and Lord of the Sabbath and this way He justifies breaking the Law (or at least rabinic tradition). I hope you understand my point of view.
    He wasn't saying it's ok to break the law he was saying it wasn't the law (same thing he did in Matthew 5), he knew it wasn't, and he was the author of the law. He schooled them at every turn. They had nothing against him and they wouldn't have been able to bring anything against him in court. They knew it, and so did the people.

    They didn't have the authority to stone people....
    Joh 18:31 Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:
    ....but that doesn't mean they couldn't have though, technically -Act 7:58-59, being in bed with Rome, both benefiting. They were afraid of the people upsetting their cushy situation.

  13. #13

    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    In Matthew 12 Jesus says:

    1)Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests.
    2)priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.
    3)I desire mercy, not sacrifice
    4)For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath

    I believe that Jesus kept the Law perfectly, as you say it, and therefore Matthew 12 is problematic for me, because in my view He gives an explanation as if He actually break the Law, but because of higher reason and therefore He was not guilty. I think He wouldn't have given such response if He had just break rabinic tradition. Actually not Him but His disciples.

    And therefore this Jesus' statement 'For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath' is a puzzle for me also, because this way it seems to me as if He wanted to say that serving Him, as His disciples did, is justification for not keeping the Sabbath (because He is something higher than the temple).

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    They had nothing against him and they wouldn't have been able to bring anything against him in court
    That's right, and this is strange for me, because if I were a Pharisee back in those days who wanted to see Jesus punished I'd have accused Him of calling Himself 'Lord of the Sabbath'.

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    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    What law is broken in saying that?

  15. #15

    Re: Why didn't Pharisees stone Jesus in Matthew 12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    What law is broken in saying that?
    I think in Pharisee's mind it could be breaking the Law of Moses because by assigning that title to Himself Jesus seemed to give His disciples a justification for not keeping Sabbath. And that was rather unacceptable at that time.

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