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Thread: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

  1. #301
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    And most of the time, I don't
    OK ... but Adam only had to mess up ONE TIME ... and you all think he could have succeeded in not ever messing up where we all can't/don't ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  2. #302
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    OK ... but Adam only had to mess up ONE TIME ... and you all think he could have succeeded in not ever messing up where we all can't/don't ...
    Had he continued relying on God, yes. He was in relationship with God in a way that most of us aren't (or weren't), so the circumstances of the garden were different to life today. But, I don't think he needed to obey once, and that was it.

  3. #303
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    Had he continued relying on God, yes. He was in relationship with God in a way that most of us aren't (or weren't), so the circumstances of the garden were different to life today. But, I don't think he needed to obey once, and that was it.
    If Adam did not have God as an indwelling reality ... I don't think Adam was in relationship with God better than us ... and I don't think Christ in us is in a less relationship with God than the relationship Adam was with God ... and I'm not at all ready to say that Adam COULD HAVE/SHOULD HAVE done better than me ... that's how I understand it ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  4. #304
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    If Adam did not have God as an indwelling reality ... I don't think Adam was in relationship with God better than us ... and I don't think Christ in us is in a less relationship with God than the relationship Adam was with God ... and I'm not at all ready to say that Adam COULD HAVE/SHOULD HAVE done better than me ... that's how I understand it ...
    His circumstances were different; I don't think he was in relationship with God, either. Up until the test, it was his default state; the outcome of the test would determine whether he wanted to continue in relationship with God, or not. He chose 'not'.

  5. #305
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    His circumstances were different; I don't think he was in relationship with God, either. Up until the test, it was his default state; the outcome of the test would determine whether he wanted to continue in relationship with God, or not. He chose 'not'.
    And God had already made "provisions" for him and for her also ... God is great!
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  6. #306

    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Slug1

    Good morning Icon85... I pray you are not busy on the road?
    Hello Slug,
    I am thankful I have been able to make it back and forth in time to assemble with the saints on the Lord's day, even as the schedule is tight as possible. Sometimes I only get back within minutes of the seervice times...I have been helping out filling in teaching a class for one of the Brothers who has some challenges and physical issues from a recent car accident.

    Has the accuracy of God's desire that none perish been determined so we can then also accurately view Romans 8 and keep scripture aligned as God intends for scripture to align together?
    Yes..it hasEZK34
    The great Shepherd is seeking and saving everyone of His sheep....NOT ONE WILL BE LOST, HE IS NOT WILLING THAT ANY OF HIS SHEEP PERISH.

    11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

    12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
    JN10
    14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

    15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep

    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


    Right now, based on responses to Prodeo and Stew... you are now trying to say that the foreknowledge revealed in the Psalms
    WHAT WAS REVEALED IN PSALM 139...IS OMNISCIENCE...NOT... ROM8:29-30 FOREKNOWLEDGE...... let's be a bit more exact to discuss such a topic..
    is different now/than in the NT
    They are different, that is why they have different words for each


    That means something has become misaligned with the scriptures.
    Yes...I would say it is you three men in trying to oppose it, you are experiencing confusion of mind...sorry slug....you walked into that one,

    I hope all is well with you in the providence of God , Slug.

  7. #307
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    In this case, the prophet brings a warning of punishment, and a possible relenting if repentance is the response for the warning; Jonah is a prime example. This is different, I think, from a prediction which names a king by name, such as Cyrus, who doesn't exist at the time the prophetic word was given, giving great detail about the king and his role with respect to Babylon, a seemingly insignificant hick town at the time, and not only predicting the events but claiming to be the cause of them. His ability to cause history is God's bona fides in support of his claim to be the only, unique, creator God that exists.
    I agree There are things that God decrees that will happen. Then there are things He says, or prophesies over that are dependent upon man's response, thus changing what God had prophesied.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  8. #308
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    I agree There are things that God decrees that will happen. Then there are things He says, or prophesies over that are dependent upon man's response, thus changing what God had prophesied.
    You are a reasonable man my brother.

  9. #309

    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo View Post







    .
    No need to give up...just consider the verses as they are offered.

  10. #310
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    ...

    If I've misunderstood you above than my bad ... but it seems to me that you say above that sometimes you willfully sin ...just as Adam ...
    Indeed I do! There is a difference though. While I can overcome and do not have to sin, for the Lord has provided a way out of all temptation, I do not always take it. However, with men and women saved today, most of them have years of habits built up of behaving selfishly. They have a sin nature. (Adam didn't have one before he sinned.) Upon salvation, God will often knock one or two of these habits in the head, but he doesn't do that with all of them. We see this example with Israel... after they had come out of Egypt, they fought with 2 kings. God had led them south because they were not yet "ready for war". But these two kings came after them anyway. Generally, 1 or 2 things get dealt with at salvation.

    However, Canaan is inhabited even when Israel came out of Egypt. Those old strongholds were still there and Israel had to overcome them. Perhaps Jericho is like a stronghold of anger that was developed way before salvation and now must be conquered. God will lead us to each of these strongholds, one at a time. There were 31 (maybe 30) cities that Israel conquered in the book of Joshua... one for each day of the month. Day by day, we overcome strongholds that are within us.

    Adam did not have these strongholds. He did not have a sin nature. He did not have bad habits to break. Like Jesus, the enemy had "nothing in him" to latch onto. Thus, Adam sinned in his freedom, not in his bondage.

    When a man gets saved, he still has giants in his life that have been there for a long, long, long time. He must overcome them just as Israel did when they were led by Joshua (a type of Christ). Adam, had nothing of the sort. He was pristine. Did he need Jesus (The Tree of Life) to overcome? Yes. Just as we do. That part didn't change from the beginning. It is still true today.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  11. #311
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Indeed I do! There is a difference though. While I can overcome and do not have to sin, for the Lord has provided a way out of all temptation, I do not always take it. However, with men and women saved today, most of them have years of habits built up of behaving selfishly. They have a sin nature. (Adam didn't have one before he sinned.) Upon salvation, God will often knock one or two of these habits in the head, but he doesn't do that with all of them. We see this example with Israel... after they had come out of Egypt, they fought with 2 kings. God had led them south because they were not yet "ready for war". But these two kings came after them anyway. Generally, 1 or 2 things get dealt with at salvation.

    However, Canaan is inhabited even when Israel came out of Egypt. Those old strongholds were still there and Israel had to overcome them. Perhaps Jericho is like a stronghold of anger that was developed way before salvation and now must be conquered. God will lead us to each of these strongholds, one at a time. There were 31 (maybe 30) cities that Israel conquered in the book of Joshua... one for each day of the month. Day by day, we overcome strongholds that are within us.

    Adam did not have these strongholds. He did not have a sin nature. He did not have bad habits to break. Like Jesus, the enemy had "nothing in him" to latch onto. Thus, Adam sinned in his freedom, not in his bondage.

    When a man gets saved, he still has giants in his life that have been there for a long, long, long time. He must overcome them just as Israel did when they were led by Joshua (a type of Christ). Adam, had nothing of the sort. He was pristine. Did he need Jesus (The Tree of Life) to overcome? Yes. Just as we do. That part didn't change from the beginning. It is still true today.
    I'm not really wanting to take this further at this time ... we aren't in agreement here ... I don't believe Adam was in a "better" position than us ... or that it was "easier" for him ... I believe what was "in him" was what came "out of him" ... if I don't further comment it doesn't necessarily mean I'm agreeing ... I just don't see the use at this point in continuing on here ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  12. #312
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    I'm not really wanting to take this further at this time ... we aren't in agreement here ... I don't believe Adam was in a "better" position than us ... or that it was "easier" for him ... I believe what was "in him" was what came "out of him" ... if I don't further comment it doesn't necessarily mean I'm agreeing ... I just don't see the use at this point in continuing on here ...
    Got it. If you think what was in Adam came out of him, then we probably won't agree. Because, IMO, that required sin to be in him before he ate. He was sinless up until he ate the fruit. Things are different now. Jesus was the 2nd Adam. There was never another like Adam till Jesus came on the scene. It think that is significant.

    Having said that, I enjoy discussing things with you regardless of whether we agree or not. That's because you are agreeable even in disagreement and because you have thought things through.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  13. #313
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    No need to give up...just consider the verses as they are offered.
    But you are impossible.......... on the other hand, you are my favorite impossible one

    Speaking about impossible, in the 70's, 80. 90's it was a popular thing to say here, "I love you with the love of the Lord" until I realized that is impossible. So as one elect impossible one to another, sooner or later I will chime in again, it's impossible I will not. Whether that's ordained and/or predestined is impossible for me to know, but maybe you think differently.

    Bless you Icon.

  14. #314
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    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    I was thinking of this whole issue last night ... seems to me that how we interpret what is going on here "at the beginning" then determines where we "go" in our interpretation concerning further Scripture ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  15. #315

    Re: To What Purpose the Garden of Eden?

    BTW I also believe that the following was going to be the truth of the word of God, before the foundation of the world.

    But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, Gal 4:4

    In other words, whatever took place in the garden of Eden, wasn't a surprise to God nor did it initiate a re-action from God. Even then, it was going to be, when the fulness of time would come.

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