View Poll Results: New heaven and earth, or renewed?

17. You may not vote on this poll
  • Brand new heaven and earth that do not exist today.

    9 52.94%
  • Renewal of the current heaven and earth.

    7 41.18%
  • Other

    1 5.88%
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Thread: New Heaven New Earth. New or Renewed?

  1. #46
    Join Date
    May 2005
    New Zealand
    Blog Entries

    Re: New Heaven New Earth. New or Renewed?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    No, I think the "gathering of the elect" is very literal! Stars, or the "hosts of heaven," are used as symbols in Scriptures of angels and religious leaders. I don't think there is any dispute about this. And the fact God's anger is directed in Isa 34 against *nations* is undisputable. Either God gets angry at *stars* because of what the nations do, or the context requires a symbolic interpretation of "stars."
    What you are saying is bad hermeneutics. Mark says plainly, "The stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven ... Heaven and earth shall pass away." (Mark 13:25-31)

    You are taking a bite out of the sentence and saying that part is "very literal." Then you take another section of the same sentence and say that it's "symbolic." However, the text is either literal or symbolic - not both. You're going to have to be more consistent, dont you think Randy?
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Durban ,South Africa

    Re: New Heaven New Earth. New or Renewed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    If scripture was eternal I would agree with you. However, ALL scripture has an expiration date, including all the one you listed. The only exception is the words of Jesus.

    Matt 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

    All scripture will be fulfilled before heaven and earth pass away. Not one jot or tittle will pass away UNTIL heaven and earth pass away. Once heaven and earth pass away, so does the Bible. Most people miss that major point.

    Now, the exception:

    Matt 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
    Sky/atmosphere and ground will pass away. Sure it will. There will be a new sky/atmosphere and new ground in the future.

    For some reason later translations still use the word "earth". When the KJV first used it, it was the correct word because both Greek/Hebrew meant primarily ground, and the word "earth" meant primarily ground. There was a perfect translation match. Since then the English word has changed it's meaning to mean planet earth, yet still translators use the word "earth" instead of the word "ground" or "land". This simple yet common translation error has led to the mistaken belief that this earth will cease at the second coming.

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