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Thread: HEALING(moved from GIC)

  1. #16
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    Re: HEALING(moved from GIC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    The "timetable" for healing is before death and resurrection.

    That is how come healing is one of the finished works of Jesus Christ. By His stripes we were healed; His stripes were before His death and resurrection.

    At resurrection, you won't need any healing for your present body because you will resurrect into a different and more glorious body.

    Thanks for your post.
    I'm not inter step in arguing about this with you because I have no problem with you believing as you do, but I don't believe as you.

    I do believe God still heals but I also believe He does not heal. I've heard some say, do not put God in a box for He will always heal if our faith is strong enough or if this or if that or if whatever.

    I say, if we claim God will always heal, then we have put God in that box and limited Him to having no ability to choose in this matter. Yes, I understand your claim is that God has said He will always heal, but I do not know of such scripture.

    One thing I do is to not disregard reality. I see Christians who are not healed. I'm sure you have arguments to counter this, but I see it just the same.

    As my dad faced his last days, his cousin, having come to visit him, said to me, if your father's faith was strong enough, God would heal him. I thought to myself later, and if your faith was strong enough, then you pray for his healing and God will answer your prayer. But his was a cop out and I'm certain the thought never crossed his mind.

    I will ask you this. When tragedy strikes a Christian and the pain they feel in their heart has made them heart sick because they hurt so much, hat healing then is there for them? I have known it and do now know it and will know it the rest of my days and perhaps all eternity. I have spoken with a pastor, a good Godly man and one who has been a ,friend of mine, but disagrees with me on this matter and has no words about the love of God and God making it right which is the only thing that can heal my heart.

    So please, don't tell me God always heals. And please, do not tell me God heals the pain of our heart, for mine cannot be healed in this life and only can it be healed in the next if God will do it. And I don't know that He cares enough or loves me enough to do so.

    That's all I've got to offer on this matter.

  2. #17

    Re: HEALING(moved from GIC)

    Please take a look at the two cases below:

    1. There is the story of Mary, Martha and Lazarus (John 11). All of them loved Jesus and Jesus also loved them. All of them believed that Jesus can heal, didn't they?

    Yet, Martha had an issue with "unbelief" until twice rebuked by the Lord. Why? Don't you, then, think that "unbelief" defines different from what we commonly think?

    2. Jesus gave power to His disciples to go out and deliver folks from unclean spirits. They obeyed and rejoiced over what they could do . But, the same disciples who were able to cast out unclean spirits were unable to cast out in one particular case (Matthew 17:19-21).

    When asked why, Jesus told the very set of disciples who were believers that their unbelief was the reason. Why? Don't you, then, think that "unbelief" defines different from what we commonly think?

    Go and figure out!

    So, insinuations about what OP means or suggests, and personal experiences for or against healing, are not important to me in this thead . What is important is that those who believe may rejoice and grow higher into the love of Christ.

    Always remember that those who have or don’t have faith, do or don’t for themselves. The Lord remains the Lord over all of them.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

  3. #18
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    Re: HEALING(moved from GIC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Was the blind man from birth brought to Jesus for healing or did he go to Jesus for healing? Even the Pharisees knew not to call it a healing.
    I'm saying all this in response to you ... but it could/would change with the understanding that I write below, to the next part of your post ...

    No he didn't go to Jesus for a healing ... yet Jesus decided to heal him after the disciples asked Jesus this ...

    John 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

    And the Pharisees did say ... "Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day." So obviously they are saying Jesus did something that day ... they didn't specify out that he healed the man, but do tell what do you think they were talking about if not that???

    And my response was to your statement below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    God neither allows nor uses any sickness or disease for the furtherance of His kingdom. There is absolutely no scriptural basis to support such a mistaken claim that is so commonly made.
    And Jesus clearly said that this man's blindness was for ...

    John 9:3 ... that the works of God should be made manifest in him

    Seems to me that Jesus healing him was "for the furtherance of His kingdom" ...


    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    John 9 is a deeply interesting story with many lessons to learn from:

    1. Does it say anything about healing of sight or creating that which was never in existence? Jesus as the Christ (Anointing) heals. But, as the Light, He creates that which has never been in existence. John 9:4-5 KJV declares:

    I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

    [5] As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

    2. He creates in whom there is no sin, but heals in whom there is sin.

    I can go further and further, but won't at this time. I hope you understand the difference between healing and creating.
    OK ... let's go with that ... the guy was physically blind and then he was not physically blind ... if you don't want to call what He did was a healing ok ... but the guy did have the condition of being physically blind ... and I'm kind of liking where you are going here ... the guys condition had nothing to do with sin, which that seems clear from the Scripture ...

    So seems you are saying Jesus didn't heal him of his physical blindness but created physical sight where there was none ... sounds good. In that sense then all the physical dissimilarities that exist between us as humans as far as abilities (and for some reason some are called disabilities) aren't something to be "healed" ... oh by the way I do a lot of volunteer work with the "differently challenged" ...

    So if you are saying that "healing" is what needs to be done with the spiritual "health" of a person and not the physical "health" of a person well then I'm all for that ... Jesus is in the business of doing that in the HERE AND NOW ... "healing" our Spiritual health.


    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Pertaining to Paul's thorn in the flesh: was it a case of Christ refusing to heal Paul or a case of reminding Paul to use the certain dispensation (supply) already given him? Paul realized that what he needed to sack the thorn was already with him.... he then knew and did what he needed to do in order to remove the thorn. I believe that he was healed from that point on.
    That seems to be all conjecture ... and most everything everyone says concerning this is conjecture since we don't really get a lot of information on it ... one thing that seems to me to be true is that God had a purpose for it ...



    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    We already have healing in the Christ. As believers, let us do what we must do to make it manifest in our physical bodies.
    Concerning the condition of our physical bodies seems to me that is up to Him to make manifest what He chooses to make manifest and not necessarily up to us ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  4. #19
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    Re: HEALING(moved from GIC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Do not say that God caused your sickness or disease. Also, do not say that God is allowing your sickness or disease to persist; He does no such things for any reason whatsoever; He does not afflict any believer with sickness in order to demonstrate His healing power. Rather, believers afflicted for whatever reasons go to the Christ for healing.
    What about Job, Elisha and the man born blind in the NT?
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  5. #20

    Re: HEALING(moved from GIC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    What about Job, Elisha and the man born blind in the NT?
    I don't think you read older posts in this thread.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

  6. #21
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    Re: HEALING

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Some folks may point to the story of Job as an example of God allowing a believer to go through calamities. But, Job's case was that of God allowing Satan to test the integrity of a perfect man. Job was not allowed to be afflicted in order for the Son to be glorified or for the furtherance of the kingdom of God. From the test of his integrity, Job (a son of God) was made to know God as the Lord of hosts.
    God allowed it though which is different than what you posted in the OP:

    Do not say that God caused your sickness or disease. Also, do not say that God is allowing your sickness or disease to persist; He does no such things for any reason whatsoever; He does not afflict any believer with sickness in order to demonstrate His healing power. Rather, believers afflicted for whatever reasons go to the Christ for healing.
    God took credit/blame for allowing it. Can you agree that God does indeed allow sickness? And that He used it for testing Job?

    And as ChristInMe mentioned above, the man born blind was born blind so that the works of God could be manifested in him. I haven't read where you addressed Elisha yet.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  7. #22

    Re: HEALING

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    God allowed it though which is different than what you posted in the OP:



    God took credit/blame for allowing it. Can you agree that God does indeed allow sickness? And that He used it for testing Job?

    And as ChristInMe mentioned above, the man born blind was born blind so that the works of God could be manifested in him. I haven't read where you addressed Elisha yet.
    Brother Mark, I hope you don't mind my answering with questions.:

    1. When was the stripes of Jesus by which we were healed? Pre or post Elisha?

    2. Was Elisha taken to or did he go to the Christ for healing?
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

  8. #23
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    Re: HEALING(moved from GIC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Also, do not say that God is allowing your sickness or disease to persist
    Dear Glorious,

    God is allowing my sickness and disease to persist.

    Yours truly,

    Pa.. Er, Athanasius

  9. #24
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    Re: HEALING

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Brother Mark, I hope you don't mind my answering with questions.:

    1. When was the stripes of Jesus by which we were healed? Pre or post Elisha?

    2. Was Elisha taken to or did he go to the Christ for healing?
    Neither of those answers the questions I asked. And neither of them address God allowing Job to be tested.

    Edit to add: So far as I can tell, people were healed in the OT in the same way we are in the NT.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  10. #25
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    Re: HEALING

    I believe that healing is ultimately God's will. Jesus came to reveal the nature and will of God and while here, never turned anyone away from being healed (Acts 10:38). However, there are MANY variable when it comes to being healed. It isn't always lack of faith, like the original poster is implying. Nor is it always because someone has sin in their life. Sometimes it is timing (many examples of that in the Gospels and Acts). Other times, the sickness is unto death because it's God's appointed time. We still see through a glass dimly, even in New Testament times.

    Hebrews 2:8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.

    Though sickness and disease are under His feet, in this present time (now), we don't always see the evidence of that subjection.

    My advice: have faith like the three Hebrew young men (Daniel 3):
    1 - Our God is ABLE
    2 - Our God is WILLING
    3 - BUT if not - we will still serve Him

    I have been supernaturally healed at least 4 times in my life, and God has kept me in generally good health. But I also know that when I've been sick or injured that God has given me a greater compassion for the hurting.

  11. #26
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    Re: HEALING

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    ...However, there are MANY variable when it comes to being healed. It isn't always lack of faith, like the original poster is implying. Nor is it always because someone has sin in their life. Sometimes it is timing (many examples of that in the Gospels and Acts). Other times, the sickness is unto death because it's God's appointed time. We still see through a glass dimly, even in New Testament times.
    Exactly! The man at the gate called beautiful was placed there every day by his parents. How many times did Jesus pass by him? The word beautiful in the Greek means "the proper time" or "proper hour". In other words, God's timing in these issues is important. Ultimately, God healed Job. Elisha got healed when he died of the sickness that came on him. It was his time to go and an illness took him out. But the anointing was so powerful on him that his bones raised a man from the dead.

    My advice: have faith like the three Hebrew young men (Daniel 3):
    1 - Our God is ABLE
    2 - Our God is WILLING
    3 - BUT if not - we will still serve Him


    Fantastic points! Sometimes, it takes more faith to be faithful during illness and hardship than it does to be healed.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  12. #27
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    Re: HEALING(moved from GIC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post

    So, insinuations about what OP means or suggests, and personal experiences for or against healing, are not important to me in this thead . What is important is that those who believe may rejoice and grow higher into the love of Christ.
    Well, OK. In a way I had that coming I guess. I suppose if I agreed with you we could have a really great discussion. But then, I don't.

    i have a question for you. How will you die? Whatever might someday be the cause of your death, wouldn't it be something worthy of God healing you from? Therefore, how will you ever die? I see no reason why you should not live forever, in this life and never die from off the face of this earth.

    am I missing something?

  13. #28
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    Re: HEALING(moved from GIC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    IRemember that, without exception or upbraiding, Jesus Christ healed all who came or were brought to Him. He has given all believers the power to heal and be healed.
    So tell us about the last example when you used the power to heal someone.

  14. #29

    Re: HEALING(moved from GIC)

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlyCall View Post
    Well, OK. In a way I had that coming I guess. I suppose if I agreed with you we could have a really great discussion. But then, I don't.

    i have a question for you. How will you die? Whatever might someday be the cause of your death, wouldn't it be something worthy of God healing you from? Therefore, how will you ever die? I see no reason why you should not live forever, in this life and never die from off the face of this earth.

    am I missing something?
    Yes, you are missing a lot! Yours above renders a very carnal understanding of "death".

    But, I will answer your question: when God permits, I will sleep (die) healthy while in the Christ, not denying or wasting the healing capital that my Lord, by His stripes at the Cross, had secured for all of us.

    Death, to me, is as the Scripture defines. Genesis 35:18 KJV declares:

    And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin.

    By reason of the Christ, I have overcome and will not know death defined by sickness, disease, pain, sins, iniquities, etc.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

  15. #30
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    Re: HEALING(moved from GIC)

    This is what I found on the web, and i think it explains it better than I could:

    I am a big believer in the doctrine of healing. I have experienced God’s healing in my own life, and I have witnessed God healing myriads of people over my past couple decades I’ve been in ministry. I am greatly comforted by verses like the one in James that gives us a great hope in the power of prayer:

    James 5
    13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms.
    14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
    15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

    I do believe that God heals, but I also believe that healing is not always the only path that He chooses for us. Sometimes His perfect plan for our lives is to allow us to suffer and experience disease, illness, and hardship. The reason for this is that He can often teach us things through suffering that we would never be able to learn through a book or seminar, or through comfort and prosperity.

    Paul had a problem with his eyesight that God never healed. When Timothy was sick, Paul told him to drink wine (not go to a healing service). The Lazarus who was raised from the dead eventually died later. Paul says that he had a thorn in the flesh which he prayed for God to remove over and over again, but God never removed it. Job suffered because God had a whole bigger purpose for him than mere comfort on this planet. And Job’s suffering was not the result of a lack of faith.

    Some of the greatest blessings in this world come from God’s power in the midst of trials. God changes us, molds us, strengthens us, and builds us through hardship. And there is nothing like the experience of being comforted by God alone in that dark hour.

    Over the past twenty-five years that I have been in ministry, I have seen people hurt greatly by the false teaching that God always wants to heal every malady. This is because that belief can cause a massive amount of guilt and disillusionment for the afflicted in those times when God actually chooses not to heal. The implication is that the suffering Christian just didn’t quite believe enough or is hiding some sort of sin. I have seen Christians destroyed in their faith over this erroneous teaching.

    We must realize that sometimes it’s just not God’s plan to heal or to fix a problem quickly for us. And that’s ok. He still loves us. He still has a plan. And He still has a profound purpose for that pain that can end up blessing us beyond anything we could ever imagine.

    Often God chooses to heal! But sometimes He teaches us more and draws us closer when we walk the dark mile of suffering. But to experience such blessing, it is important that we run to God and not away from Him in the midst of the storm.

    Source: http://www.biblestudytools.com/blogs...d-illness.html
    Glorious Day
    Living He loved me
    Dying He saved me
    Buried He carried my sins far away
    Risen He justified
    Freely forever
    One day He's coming
    Oh Glorious Day!

    Casting Crowns

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