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Thread: 1 John 2:2

  1. #61
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    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    Yes, the text says "world", which is why the atonement isn't limited.
    Does Jesus pleads for everyone or just the believers?

  2. #62
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    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Does Jesus pleads for everyone or just the believers?
    I like to bring the text before us.

    Romans 5:
    6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

    In Ephesians chapter 3, Paul invites his readers to recognize that Christ's love has no comparable example in human experience. Here in Romans 5, he is essentially saying the same thing using different wording. It would make sense for Christ to die for his friends, for believers. But his love is not like any act of love found anywhere else in human experience. Christ died for the ungodly; he died for his enemies; he died while we were yet sinners. Here Paul speaks about reconciliation between God and man, which takes place when both parties agree to the cessation of hostilities. When Christ died for the world, his blood appeased the wrath of God and became the means to his propitiation. In other words, because of Jesus hostilities between God and man were abated. But reconciliation requires amiable overtures from both parties. So then, though man is reconciled to God, through the blood of the cross; God is not reconciled to man until man turns to God in repentance and confession with a contrite heart.

    Harmonious relations between God and any particular individual depends on both the appeasement of God's wrath, and the contrition of the penitent. Calvinists would argue, I think, that although Christ may have died for the sins of the whole world, even a universal atonement is only efficacious for those who turn to God in repentance and contrition and agree to become a follower of Christ.

    But since salvation involves reconciliation between two parties, between God and man, and the cross of Christ deals with the appeasement of God's wrath, then the cross was fully effective for THAT purpose.

  3. #63
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    Re: 1 John 2:2

    The first question we should ask about 1 John 2:2 is, "Who is John writing to in this letter?"

    Actually John tells us to whom he is writing. In 1 John 5:13 he says, "These things have I written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life." I think it should be clear that John wrote this letter to all believers. It was written about AD 85 - 95. It was said by Clement that he hung around Ephesus. Since he does not list any names, it was probably intended as a circular letter.

    Now typically those who hold to limited or particular atonement address 1 John 2:2 is by saying that John is contrasting between Jewish believers, to whom they argue this letter was written, and Gentile believers.

    How I see 1 John 2:2 is that Christ is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for our sins (believers), and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world (ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου - IOW, everyone else on the planet earth, which be unbelievers). Christ paid the penalty for the sins of the whole world, including those who never trusted in His Son - the nonelect. But the nonelect never appropriated that provision for themselves, which is accomplished only by faith.

    So then, I think it behoves us to consider how John used the term translated as "world" in his writings. The term "world" (κόσμου - Genitive of κόσμος) is used in other places in John's writings, and in general it refers to unbelievers (in contrast to believers). There are some places where it refers to the world system, and not specifically just the people in it. I tried to consider only those places where it referred to people. See John 3:16, John 7:7, John 8:23, John 14:22, John 16:8, John 17:9, 1 John 2:15-17, 1 John 3:1, 1 John 3:13, and 1 John 4:3 & 4. Again, I trid to only select those texts which were clear, not those that could be understand either way.

    First, let's look at his use of κόσμος in his gospel:

    John 3:16, 17, 19 For God loved the world in this way, that whoever believes in Him would not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

    John 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil.

    John 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

    John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

    John 14:22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?”

    John 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:

    John 17:9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

    Now, the most important context is the same letter, then other writings by the same author. So see that when κόσμος (world) is used in 1 John it isn't used to refer to just believers, or perhaps Gentile believers as opposed to Jewish believers. In fact, John wrote to both Jewish and Gentile believers in his 1st letter.

    1 John 2:15 - 17 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world— the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God remains forever.

    1 John 3:1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

    1 John 3:13 Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you.

    1 john 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

    1 John 5:19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world (ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου) lies in the power of the evil one.

    If there is any question about this, let scripture define the terms used - in context. One should consider the usage of the term "world" first in its context in the letter of 1 John (see 1 John 3:1; 3:13; 4:5; 4:9; 4:14; and especially 5:19). This word is clearly not used to refer to elect Gentiles only. Especially significant is the usage of this term in 1 John 5:19. John used the phrase "the whole world" in only two places: in 1 John 2:2 and 5:19.

    So when John uses the word "our" he is referring to all Christian believers, not just Jewish believers. See 1 John 1:9 – "our sins" (it was not just the Jewish believers who were to confess their sins). See also 1 John 1:10 – "we," "us," (it was not just the Jewish believers that were claiming that they had not sinned). See 1 John 2:1 – "we have an advocate" (it was not just the Jewish Christians who had an Advocate, but all believers). It should be clear both from the letter itself as well as extrabiblical information that John did not write this letter only to Jewish believers. The terms "our" and "the whole world" are definitely contrasts between believers and those who are not believers.

    The terms used in 2:2 and 5:19 are used in the same manner. And 5:19 is the strongest context since it is the only place which used κόσμος in the same manner precisely as in 2:2. Compare:

    1 John 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world (ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου).

    1 John 5:19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world (ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου) lies in the power of the evil one.

    So then, if the whole world referred to Gentile believers, then Gentile believers lie in the power of Satan, but Jewish believers do not! Obviously, that was not what John intended to say here.

    Sorry about taking so long to make my point! I tend to do that, unfortunately.

    Thx,

    BD
    3 John 4 - "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my [spiritual] children walk in the truth.

    BadDog!

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