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Thread: 1 John 2:2

  1. #31
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    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    No...the reason for the complaints is the parts that have color or large fonts are the parts that you and the others will not respond to as to respond exposes the reality of where the truth is to be found. Slug was asked to respond 19 times to romans 8:29-30 and if I held my breath on that answer I would be in the heavenlies right now. If you do not like color, no one forces you or others to read my posts, or, look at rainbows or prisms...I like all of them.
    Not to pile on, but I do tend to skip over posts with large colorful fonts, for two reasons. First, they are hard to read for my weak eyes. Second, if I want to reply with a quote, it's extra effort to remove the fonts, though I discovered this can be done more easily in advanced mode.

    There is one exception, which is only mildly irritating to my eyes, but very helpful in other ways. David Taylor colors the Biblical text in Red. This seems like a good way to help the reader distinguish the Biblical text from the commentary. (though even here I have a hard time reading large blocks of red.)

    This having been said, I don't want to quench your creativity or your form of expression. I am curious, though, to know if your choice of colors and font sizes are intended to communicate an idea. For instance, if I was selling butter, I might choose a font that was associated by convention with farming or wholesomeness.

  2. #32
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    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew Ward's Hip View Post
    and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


    Did Calvin hold to limited atonement, or was that a later inference from his followers.?

    Is his commentary to Romans 5:18 consistent with his commentary on 1 John 2:2?
    They seem consistent to me. I read Some commentaries of Calvin's regarding the two. I also read this is a popular discussion between Calvinists and Armenians-- Theology is interesting, but not perfect between people.
    Peace to you!

    John 12:46
    I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.



  3. #33

    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    Not to pile on, but I do tend to skip over posts with large colorful fonts, for two reasons. First, they are hard to read for my weak eyes. Second, if I want to reply with a quote, it's extra effort to remove the fonts, though I discovered this can be done more easily in advanced mode.

    There is one exception, which is only mildly irritating to my eyes, but very helpful in other ways. David Taylor colors the Biblical text in Red. This seems like a good way to help the reader distinguish the Biblical text from the commentary. (though even here I have a hard time reading large blocks of red.)

    This having been said, I don't want to quench your creativity or your form of expression. I am curious, though, to know if your choice of colors and font sizes are intended to communicate an idea. For instance, if I was selling butter, I might choose a font that was associated by convention with farming or wholesomeness.
    The colorful portions are the part of the text I want responded to,or that clarifies that portion of a post that addresses the issue at hand. Many times in an extended post the section gets skipped over or ignored.
    When it is larger and a different color it is different than the other portion.....I have posted over13000 times on Baptistboard, and theology forums without having anyone complain about it.
    It looks as if it was an excuse for a person to make a personal attack and falsely claim the Romans passage was addressed when it was not.....No one is forced to read anyone's posts....
    I do not read those with excessive Hebrew words because I find them confusing, but I do not complain about it.....the person feels they need to do that, so It is okay, but I just by pass it.

    If people bear false witness or try and agitate trouble and provoke a response that they can then report, I also do not need to answer such....I prefer to get to the bible as it relates to the OP.
    4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
    5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

  4. #34

    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    The colorful portions are the part of the text I want responded to,or that clarifies that portion of a post that addresses the issue at hand. Many times in an extended post the section gets skipped over or ignored.
    When it is larger and a different color it is different than the other portion.....I have posted over13000 times on Baptistboard, and theology forums without having anyone complain about it.
    It looks as if it was an excuse for a person to make a personal attack and falsely claim the Romans passage was addressed when it was not.....No one is forced to read anyone's posts....
    I do not read those with excessive Hebrew words because I find them confusing, but I do not complain about it.....the person feels they need to do that, so It is okay, but I just by pass it.

    If people bear false witness or try and agitate trouble and provoke a response that they can then report, I also do not need to answer such....I prefer to get to the bible as it relates to the OP.
    This is the problem we're describing:

    -----------------------------------------

    Calvin is not here right now...and he is not an apostle.... so let's try scripture;

    Let's see how John contrasted"us" from "the world"...when it comes to propitiation;

    1jn4;
    4 [COLOR=#FF0000]Ye are of God, little children,[/ COLOR] and have overcome them: because greater is [COLOR=#FF0000][B]he that is in you[/ B][/ COLOR],[B] than he that is in the world[/ B].

    5 [B]They are of the world[/ B]: therefore speak [B]they of the world, and the world heareth them[/ B].

    6[B][COLOR=#FF0000] We are of God:[/ COLOR][/ B] he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

    7 Beloved, [B][COLOR=#FF0000]let us love one anothe[/ COLOR][/ B]r: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

    8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

    9 In this was manifested the love of God[B][SIZE=5] [COLOR=#0000cd]toward us,[/ COLOR][/ SIZE][/ B] because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

    10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that [B][COLOR=#FF0000]he loved us[/ COLOR][/ B],[B][COLOR=#000080] [B][SIZE=5]and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.[/ SIZE][/ B][/ COLOR][/ B]

    In red we see who John had in mind, contrasted to the unbelieving world, when he speaks of propitiation.

    If you want to study romans 5...try doing it right;
    15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.

    [B] For if through the offence of one many be dead[/ B],

    much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [COLOR=#FF0000][B]which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded[SIZE=6] unto many[/ SIZE].[ /B][/ COLOR]

    16[B] And not as it was by one that sinned[/ B], [COLOR=#FF0000][B]so is the gift: [/ B][/ COLOR]

    [B]
    for the judgment was by one to condemnation[/ B],

    but [COLOR=#FF0000][B]the free gift is of many offences unto justification.[/ B][/ COLOR]

    17 [B]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one[/ B];
    much more they which receive abundance of grace and of [COLOR=#FF0000][B]the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
    [/ B][/ COLOR]

    18 Therefore as by the offence of one[B] judgment came upon all men to condemnation[/ B]

    even so by the righteousness of one [B][COLOR=#FF0000]the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    [/ COLOR][/ B]
    19 For as by one man's disobedience [B][SIZE=4]many were made sinners,
    [/ SIZE][/ B]
    so by the obedience of one shall[B][COLOR=#FF0000][SIZE=5] many be made righteous.[/ SIZE][/ COLOR][/ B]
    [B][COLOR=#FF0000]
    MANY...NOT ALL[/ COLOR][/ B]

    Just need to contrast the whole section...
    All are physically born in Adam....not ALL are spiritually found IN Christ.
    [COLOR=#3F3F3F][FONT=Roboto]Is (estin) is in the [URL="http://www.preceptaustin.org/greek_quick_reference_guide#present"]present tense[/ URL] signifying that Jesus is continually the propitiation. This is good news for sinners such as myself who are daily in need of an Advocate Who is qualified. Indeed, He sits in His glorified body even now at the right hand of the Father and not only pleads for mercy for us but also intercedes for us. ([URL="https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom%208.34"]Ro 8:34[/ URL], [URL="https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Heb%207.25"]Heb 7:25[/ URL]) O, what a Savior, what a Lord![/ FONT][/ COLOR][COLOR=#3F3F3F][FONT=Roboto]The propitiation (NAS marginal note = "Satisfaction") ([URL="http://studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2434"]2434[/ URL]) ([URL="http://www.preceptaustin.org/1john_216_commentary#p style="]hilasmos[/ URL] akin to hileōs = merciful, propitious) in the NT (only here and [URL="https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/1%20John%204.10"]1Jn 4:10[/ URL]) refers to a sacrifice that turns away the wrath of God and thereby makes God propitious (favorably inclined or disposed, disposed to be gracious and/or merciful, ready to forgive) toward us.[/ FONT][/ COLOR][COLOR=#3F3F3F][FONT=Roboto]Keep in mind as you read this note on hilasmos that it is very difficult to discern the differences betweenpropitiation (satisfaction) and expiation in a number of scholarly resources consulted. Kenneth Wuest's paraphrase seems to try to cover both camps so to speak rendering it "He himself is an expiatory satisfaction for our sins."receptaustin;

    [/ FONT][/ COLOR]


    -----------------------------------------

    It's just a mess of BB code (especially the last paragraph). Also, don't be so quick with this 'false claim' accusation; do you want me to find one of the instances where I replied to Romans 8? Pull up the thread where you asked Slug1 '19 times', and you'll see where I did. (We're pointing this out, by the way, because we care about the discussion.)

  5. #35
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    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    What difference if I copied an article from Bozo the clown , if it contained truth?
    Thing is though one ought to give credit to the actual writer when one does such ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  6. #36
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    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Stew Ward's Hip View Post
    and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.


    Did Calvin hold to limited atonement, or was that a later inference from his followers.?

    Is his commentary to Romans 5:18 consistent with his commentary on 1 John 2:2?
    As I read the OP, this is not a general discussion about 1 John 2:2. This is a discussion about two points:

    1. Did Calvin believe the "L" of TULIP (limited atonement / definite atonement / particular redemption)?
    2. Was Calvin consistent in his comments between 1 John 2:2 and Romans 5:18.


    It's not actually a discussion about what the Scriptures teach but what Calvin taught and his consistency.

    If Calvin believed the L, this doesn't make it true or false.
    If Calvin was inconsistent, well then, he was inconsistent. Aren't we also or at least haven't we been at times ourselves?
    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - unknown

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

  7. #37

    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    Thing is though one ought to give credit to the actual writer when one does such ...
    I mentioned the source each time for that reason.
    4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
    5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

  8. #38

    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    This is the problem we're describing:

    -----------------------------------------

    Calvin is not here right now...and he is not an apostle.... so let's try scripture;

    Let's see how John contrasted"us" from "the world"...when it comes to propitiation;

    1jn4;
    4 [COLOR=#FF0000]Ye are of God, little children,[/ COLOR] and have overcome them: because greater is [COLOR=#FF0000][B]he that is in you[/ B][/ COLOR],[B] than he that is in the world[/ B].

    5 [B]They are of the world[/ B]: therefore speak [B]they of the world, and the world heareth them[/ B].

    6[B][COLOR=#FF0000] We are of God:[/ COLOR][/ B] he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

    7 Beloved, [B][COLOR=#FF0000]let us love one anothe[/ COLOR][/ B]r: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

    8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

    9 In this was manifested the love of God[B][SIZE=5] [COLOR=#0000cd]toward us,[/ COLOR][/ SIZE][/ B] because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

    10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that [B][COLOR=#FF0000]he loved us[/ COLOR][/ B],[B][COLOR=#000080] [B][SIZE=5]and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.[/ SIZE][/ B][/ COLOR][/ B]

    In red we see who John had in mind, contrasted to the unbelieving world, when he speaks of propitiation.

    If you want to study romans 5...try doing it right;
    15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.

    [B] For if through the offence of one many be dead[/ B],

    much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [COLOR=#FF0000][B]which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded[SIZE=6] unto many[/ SIZE].[ /B][/ COLOR]

    16[B] And not as it was by one that sinned[/ B], [COLOR=#FF0000][B]so is the gift: [/ B][/ COLOR]

    [B]
    for the judgment was by one to condemnation[/ B],

    but [COLOR=#FF0000][B]the free gift is of many offences unto justification.[/ B][/ COLOR]

    17 [B]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one[/ B];
    much more they which receive abundance of grace and of [COLOR=#FF0000][B]the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
    [/ B][/ COLOR]

    18 Therefore as by the offence of one[B] judgment came upon all men to condemnation[/ B]

    even so by the righteousness of one [B][COLOR=#FF0000]the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    [/ COLOR][/ B]
    19 For as by one man's disobedience [B][SIZE=4]many were made sinners,
    [/ SIZE][/ B]
    so by the obedience of one shall[B][COLOR=#FF0000][SIZE=5] many be made righteous.[/ SIZE][/ COLOR][/ B]
    [B][COLOR=#FF0000]
    MANY...NOT ALL[/ COLOR][/ B]

    Just need to contrast the whole section...
    All are physically born in Adam....not ALL are spiritually found IN Christ.
    [COLOR=#3F3F3F][FONT=Roboto]Is (estin) is in the [URL="http://www.preceptaustin.org/greek_quick_reference_guide#present"]present tense[/ URL] signifying that Jesus is continually the propitiation. This is good news for sinners such as myself who are daily in need of an Advocate Who is qualified. Indeed, He sits in His glorified body even now at the right hand of the Father and not only pleads for mercy for us but also intercedes for us. ([URL="https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom%208.34"]Ro 8:34[/ URL], [URL="https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Heb%207.25"]Heb 7:25[/ URL]) O, what a Savior, what a Lord![/ FONT][/ COLOR][COLOR=#3F3F3F][FONT=Roboto]The propitiation (NAS marginal note = "Satisfaction") ([URL="http://studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2434"]2434[/ URL]) ([URL="http://www.preceptaustin.org/1john_216_commentary#p style="]hilasmos[/ URL] akin to hileōs = merciful, propitious) in the NT (only here and [URL="https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/1%20John%204.10"]1Jn 4:10[/ URL]) refers to a sacrifice that turns away the wrath of God and thereby makes God propitious (favorably inclined or disposed, disposed to be gracious and/or merciful, ready to forgive) toward us.[/ FONT][/ COLOR][COLOR=#3F3F3F][FONT=Roboto]Keep in mind as you read this note on hilasmos that it is very difficult to discern the differences betweenpropitiation (satisfaction) and expiation in a number of scholarly resources consulted. Kenneth Wuest's paraphrase seems to try to cover both camps so to speak rendering it "He himself is an expiatory satisfaction for our sins."receptaustin;

    [/ FONT][/ COLOR]


    -----------------------------------------

    It's just a mess of BB code (especially the last paragraph). Also, don't be so quick with this 'false claim' accusation; do you want me to find one of the instances where I replied to Romans 8? Pull up the thread where you asked Slug1 '19 times', and you'll see where I did. (We're pointing this out, by the way, because we care about the discussion.)
    When I read my post I see the post ,the colors, and the size....here I see all those code letters.....when that happens I just delete them and read the post.in an answer a person usually will take on line at a time so it is not really an issue.
    In many cases I have had people find it helpful and they say the part in green I agree with.

    Now...you are suggesting when you were being critical of me.....it was because you cared about me even though I am not the subject of the OP?

    I asked on Romans 8:29-30.....not for general dismissive responses.....I asked clearly for responses to what is called the golden chain of redemption.....each related and linked phrase,whom,foreknow,predestinate,conformed to the image,called,justified, glorified........if you saw anyone do this I might have missed it...could you give me the post numbers where it happened? I could have missed it.....
    4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
    5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

  9. #39

    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    When I read my post I see the post ,the colors, and the size....here I see all those code letters.....when that happens I just delete them and read the post.in an answer a person usually will take on line at a time so it is not really an issue.
    In many cases I have had people find it helpful and they say the part in green I agree with.

    Now...you are suggesting when you were being critical of me.....it was because you cared about me even though I am not the subject of the OP?

    I asked on Romans 8:29-30.....not for general dismissive responses.....I asked clearly for responses to what is called the golden chain of redemption.....each related and linked phrase,whom,foreknow,predestinate,conformed to the image,called,justified, glorified........if you saw anyone do this I might have missed it...could you give me the post numbers where it happened? I could have missed it.....
    If you haven't noticed, I'm critical of most people's arguments (this is a place for discussion, after all). Don't confuse that for me being critical of you personally.

    As for Romans 8, here is your first mention of it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    Define election based on foreseen faith would be election by mere foreknowledge that is to say prescience. The biblical usage much must determine the exact significance of the term. What is the Biblical teaching concerning the foreknowledge of God? For knowledge is not synonymous with omniscience. It is concerned, not with contingency but with certainty acts 2:23 acts 15 18 Romans 8:29 to 30, and that's implies a knowledge of what has been rented certain. Acts 2:23 would make for knowledge depended upon God's determinate Council by the grammatical construction which combines both together as one thought with foreknowledge referring to and enforcing the previous term. Foreknowledge is related to the Old Testament term to know implying an intimate knowledge of a relation to its object compare Genesis 4:1 Amos 3:2 to the passages in the New Testament Romans 8:29 11 :2- 1st Peter 1: 2 all speak of persons who are for known employee much more than mere prescience or omniscient, a relationship that is absolutely certain, personal and intimate. The only example of things being for known is clearly based on Divine determination Acts15 :18

    Because Divine election or for ordination to eternal life is grounded in the immutable character of God, it is infallible. Where it based upon foreseen Faith, mere prescience, or human ability, it would remain fallible and mutable. Because of the of its infallible and immutable character, Divine election or for a nation to eternal life is the source of the greatest Comfort, encouragement and perseverance to the believer. This is exactly the way in which and the reason why this truth is revealed in Scripture! Note especially the great and glorious statement of the Apostle and Romans 8 28 - 39 under inspiration, he puts this truth in the context of the present promise verse 28 the Eternal Redemptive purpose vs 29 - 34 the very worst that believe it's can experience first 35 230 6 the Redemptive Covenant Love of the Lord Jesus Christ in verse 37 any infallibility of the Covenant of Grace verse 38 to 39. God has ordained the preaching of the Gospel as the means to bring the elective faith in Christ in time and experience Romans 10:14 215 and verse 17, first Thessalonians 1 for the 10 and first Thessalonians 2 verse 13 He has ordained the means as well as the end. To glory and the end without fulfilling the means would be inconsistent and sinful by disobedience. This is taken from A Baptist Catechism with Commentary by WR Downing.pg125.
    My follow up:

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    I don't understand what this has to do with my question? I'm asking how foreknowledge can be primarily about persons, not events, when persons are bound up in the events of their lives? That is, God doesn't foreknow us in a vacuum; to know a person is to know the circumstances of that persons life, how those circumstances have shaped that person, and will shape that person, and so on.
    Slug1's follow up:

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    And from this, I can conclude that babies that die at birth or are aborted... are NOT the elect of God?
    You reply to him, and don't get back to me for a while. You re-iterate Romans 8:

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    God is perfect in all His attributes. He is good, and pure. Nothing he has purposed is against us;

    This teaching is positive....only positive-
    29*For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    30*Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
    31*What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
    32*He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
    33*Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
    34*Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
    35*Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
    36*As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
    37*Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
    38*For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    39*Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Slug1 then replies:

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    This is some of the support that God's KNOWS who will respond to grace that He's offered to the world. So those who He knows will respond... He's ordained works of righteousness.
    You then you follow up with me some time later:

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    This very topic addresses your question. God uses means in our progressive sanctification to conform us to the Image of the son of his love.
    All the challenges we face in life are controlled by God's providential care for His people. That is why this is positive for those called by God in this way...For WHOM he did Foreknow, he also did predestinate ...to be conformed to the image of his Son
    But as you can see, there is plenty of discussion concerning the points you're making, even those related to Romans 8. If you follow this thread from page 12ff, there are a couple of good responses to your use of Romans 8 from Christinme, Aristarkos, Slug1, and so on.

  10. #40

    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    If you haven't noticed, I'm critical of most people's arguments (this is a place for discussion, after all). Don't confuse that for me being critical of you personally.

    As for Romans 8, here is your first mention of it:



    My follow up:



    Slug1's follow up:



    You reply to him, and don't get back to me for a while. You re-iterate Romans 8:



    Slug1 then replies:



    You then you follow up with me some time later:



    But as you can see, there is plenty of discussion concerning the points you're making, even those related to Romans 8. If you follow this thread from page 12ff, there are a couple of good responses to your use of Romans 8 from Christinme, Aristarkos, Slug1, and so on.
    Not one of these responses works through the ........CHAIN.......portion of the text as was requested.

    I will start a thread on just the golden chain .....that will be all that can be commented on....each part of it.
    4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
    5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

  11. #41
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    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast85 View Post
    Not one of these responses works through the ........CHAIN.......portion of the text as was requested.

    I will start a thread on just the golden chain .....that will be all that can be commented on....each part of it.
    Well here's the problem with that:

    Just because you start a thread it's not "yours" and you do not have control and authority over it. You cannot dictate what and how people can respond. As long as we are in the spirit of the rules and code of conduct here at Bible Forums the discussions can flow where they wish to go unless they get wayyyy off topic and down into a rabbit hole of silliness.
    The mods will step in if there is a "rabbit hole" situation.

    If you're expecting things to be otherwise you're out of luck my brother.

    Just saying...
    Day by day, Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

  12. #42

    Re: 1 John 2:2

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Well here's the problem with that:

    Just because you start a thread it's not "yours" and you do not have control and authority over it. You cannot dictate what and how people can respond. As long as we are in the spirit of the rules and code of conduct here at Bible Forums the discussions can flow where they wish to go unless they get wayyyy off topic and down into a rabbit hole of silliness.
    The mods will step in if there is a "rabbit hole" situation.

    If you're expecting things to be otherwise you're out of luck my brother.

    Just saying...
    Lol....yes....I suspect what will actually take place.....Does the phrase wishful thinking come to mind
    4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
    5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

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