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Thread: Which is the Beast?

  1. #1

    Which is the Beast?

    We now have conflict over a Middle Eastern country, Syria by two major players, the U.S. in the West and Russia in the East. Who do you think the Beast will be, Western, Eastern, or Middle Eastern?

    I think the Beast rises out of the ancient Roman Empire. Rome was the 4th empire of Daniel's dream, and the rock that eventually destroyed it was Christ, who was born in the time of the ancient Roman Empire. It is the rock that will eventually destroy the Beast.

    Only Christ did not immediately establish his Kingdom. So he did not bring his Kingdom to earth immediately. Instead he suffered death, and has allowed his followers to suffer persecution. The Kingdom did not come.

    But Daniel said the 4th empire would break up into 10 nations. Who do you think these nations will be, if they are to issue out of the old Roman Empire? What nations have emerged out of the old Roman tradition?

    Interestingly, Rome, though Western, also had an Eastern portion, which became the Byzantine Empire. It was a Greek, or Eastern, tradition. Eventually it became the Russian Empire, which assumed the Greek Orthodox tradition.

    Perhaps the Beast will have two portions? Let me know your thoughts in this regard...

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    Re: Which is the Beast?

    middlearthian..............

  3. #3

    Re: Which is the Beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    middlearthian..............
    Thanks Ross!

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    Re: Which is the Beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    We now have conflict over a Middle Eastern country, Syria by two major players, the U.S. in the West and Russia in the East. Who do you think the Beast will be, Western, Eastern, or Middle Eastern?

    I think the Beast rises out of the ancient Roman Empire. Rome was the 4th empire of Daniel's dream, and the rock that eventually destroyed it was Christ, who was born in the time of the ancient Roman Empire. It is the rock that will eventually destroy the Beast.

    Only Christ did not immediately establish his Kingdom. So he did not bring his Kingdom to earth immediately. Instead he suffered death, and has allowed his followers to suffer persecution. The Kingdom did not come.

    But Daniel said the 4th empire would break up into 10 nations. Who do you think these nations will be, if they are to issue out of the old Roman Empire? What nations have emerged out of the old Roman tradition?

    Interestingly, Rome, though Western, also had an Eastern portion, which became the Byzantine Empire. It was a Greek, or Eastern, tradition. Eventually it became the Russian Empire, which assumed the Greek Orthodox tradition.

    Perhaps the Beast will have two portions? Let me know your thoughts in this regard...
    The ten horns need not be restricted to the territory of old Rome, empires are always expanding and contracting. When Rome split into two divisions being Europe/Turkey more than 1500 years ago, the European half of Rome fits in well with the description of the woman/whore of Rev 17. The eastern half of Rome is where the ten horns will be. Revelation 13 states that the beast "resembles the leopard". The leopard is an obvious reference to Alexander's Greek Empire described in Daniel 7 as the leopard.

    The "Leopard Empire" of Alexander approximates the following territories:
    Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, Palestine (now Israel), Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan.

    I believe those are the ten possible candidates. It gets a little more complicated though because there is another region within the ten referred to in Daniel 7. The little horn of Daniel 7 refers to a small country which rises up to subdue three of them. I believe this is Israel which has subdued Palestine and will expand under the false Messiah to include Iraq and Syria. This is so the false Messiah can appear to fulfil prophecy concerning Jewish expansion to the Euphrates.

    So Turkey will rule the 10, but within the 10, Israel will subdue and rule 3 of the 10. And its leader will be given much power by Istanbul/Turkey in the region. Syria and Iraq are becoming such a mess they will welcome even Israel ruled peace rather than the madness of ISIS. In the meantime Israel currently assists the Kurds to create a Kurdish haven in northern Iraq and northern Syria, giving them an example of how successful they can be under Jewish influence.

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    Re: Which is the Beast?

    I believe the beast will be muhammad/islam who the false prophet (likely the last imam) will give life to by the power of satan.

    Revelation 13

    Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

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    Re: Which is the Beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    We now have conflict over a Middle Eastern country, Syria by two major players, the U.S. in the West and Russia in the East. Who do you think the Beast will be, Western, Eastern, or Middle Eastern?
    Pretty sure that the Beast will devour the world, it isn't limited. the world at that time was in a sense smaller, but today that world has expanded, we live in a "global society". That global society is what the beast will consume, it is here, the Beast has arrived, we're living it now.

    We know the Beast comes from the "sea" which represents the gentile peoples, and that the head of the beast is connected with the northern peoples of Gog/Magog, and the distant coastlands and seafaring peoples (British Isles).

    The false prophet comes from the "land", and looks like the worldwide Beast, and forces the people of the land to worship the Global beast. The Land/earth/seashore represents the southern people, Palestine, and Shemites.

    There is really only one possibility that can explain the prophecies.

    the UN/NATO/EUROPE are the head of the beast, the conspired to create the situation in the Middle East by nation building over the last 100 years. The outcome was 1948, and today we have the progress that they wanted, which is a democratic Israel, on God's land, claiming to be his people, speaking lies like a dragon while claiming to be peaceful.



    But Daniel said the 4th empire would break up into 10 nations. Who do you think these nations will be, if they are to issue out of the old Roman Empire? What nations have emerged out of the old Roman tradition?
    If you refer to the clay and iron toes, I think that the toes are not nations, the issue that is shown by the image of the statue is the style of leadership and government. The hard metals refer to man's leadership, and these are unnatural, while the rock represents the ultimatel power and dominion, which is Christ.

    Gold - Nebuchadnezzar himself - supreme Monarchy (other governments declared inferior)
    Silver - Persia, Limited Monarchy (man's law supreme over the king)
    Bronze - Greece, Meritocracy man selects rulers based on who is "best"
    Iron - Representative democracy, leadership limited to assent of the governed.
    Miry clay (mud) possibly anarchy, or straightforward democracy, also possibly the building material for the earth, and natural government.

    The lesson there is that the iron cannot form the clay into anything, it cannot merge with it. It is possibly telling us that the final government in place before Christ's return will not be able to tame or effectively rule man. It will be partly Iron, and therefore partly of Representative democracy, but it will also be partly un-ruled, it will be muddy.

    That is very much like what we are seeing today. Our laws are convoluted, we are sliding into lawlessness as victims of our own foolish government. We are appealing to the lowest common denominator, legalizing many sinful activities, and many evil and destructive economic policies.

    Interestingly, Rome, though Western, also had an Eastern portion, which became the Byzantine Empire. It was a Greek, or Eastern, tradition. Eventually it became the Russian Empire, which assumed the Greek Orthodox tradition.

    Perhaps the Beast will have two portions? Let me know your thoughts in this regard...
    In a sense, yes, that is very possibly what we're seeing. two iron legs which were Rome and Byzantium have now become divided into a merely "Western" vs "Eastern" mentality. These may be representative of the very fabric of human culture, and the way we understand humanity's ability to rule itself. Society is simply made up of the economic and military situation at any given time, but cultural traditions and expectations don't shift so rapidly. A society can be built rather quickly.

    For example, it is socially normal to talk to people while also messing with our phones, but we know that culturally, we shouldn't be doing it.
    Socially, we all put up with corrupt government leaders, but culturally, we expect better because we have been blessed with a lot of good people in leadership.

    It would take a long time to eliminate our expectation of honest leaders to become more tolerant of corruption,

    Socially, homosexuality become quickly acceptable, yet culturally there is a lot of discomfort between homo and heterosexuals.

    See the point here?

    Culturally, over a long period of time, human culture is shifting away from Monarchs, and toward Republics, every moving toward libertarianism. The farther along we get... the closer we get to what God considers a "beastly" or unruly mind. (Nebuchadnezzar's transformation).

    Remember the main point, Nebuchadnezzar was informed that total dominion would pass from himself, downward to these other empires, and finally, to a mountain that would eliminate all of man's laws. The image simply isn't about any particular nations at all, that misses the point.
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

  7. #7

    Re: Which is the Beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    The ten horns need not be restricted to the territory of old Rome, empires are always expanding and contracting. When Rome split into two divisions being Europe/Turkey more than 1500 years ago, the European half of Rome fits in well with the description of the woman/whore of Rev 17. The eastern half of Rome is where the ten horns will be. Revelation 13 states that the beast "resembles the leopard". The leopard is an obvious reference to Alexander's Greek Empire described in Daniel 7 as the leopard.

    The "Leopard Empire" of Alexander approximates the following territories:
    Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, Palestine (now Israel), Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan.

    I believe those are the ten possible candidates. It gets a little more complicated though because there is another region within the ten referred to in Daniel 7. The little horn of Daniel 7 refers to a small country which rises up to subdue three of them. I believe this is Israel which has subdued Palestine and will expand under the false Messiah to include Iraq and Syria. This is so the false Messiah can appear to fulfil prophecy concerning Jewish expansion to the Euphrates.

    So Turkey will rule the 10, but within the 10, Israel will subdue and rule 3 of the 10. And its leader will be given much power by Istanbul/Turkey in the region. Syria and Iraq are becoming such a mess they will welcome even Israel ruled peace rather than the madness of ISIS. In the meantime Israel currently assists the Kurds to create a Kurdish haven in northern Iraq and northern Syria, giving them an example of how successful they can be under Jewish influence.
    Well, that certainly stirs up a lot of interesting speculation! I personally have a question with whether the "little horn" refers to a *small country* or to an *individual,* as opposed to a nation. Do you have a thought on that?

    I've long thought that the fact Rome essentially broke into two major divisions indicates a correlation with the two legs of the "Nebuchadnezzar's dream." In other words, the "2 legs" of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, and the "4th Kingdom" of Daniel's dream, appear to reference the Eastern and the Western divisions of the ancient Roman Empire.

    If so, it seems likely to me that 5 of the nations should come from the Eastern division, and 5 of the nations should come from the Western division. Does this sound reasonable to you? Five toes are on one foot, and five toes are on the other foot?

    But your point that this is a leopard in body also sounds reasonable. It may be that the use of these three animals in the Beast Empire refers to the ancient empires they correlate with: Greece, Persia, and Babylon, the leopard, the bear, and the lion?

    And if the body is a leopard that would mean the main body of the Beast Empire would correlate with the ancient Greek empire? But I'm not sure the leopard body is meant to correlate with the Greek empire at all? Perhaps it is just an indication that the Beast empire has a capacity for quick military mobilization? Like ancient Greece the Beast Empire will be able to strike lightning fast.

    We could, if we accept the "animal correlation" theory, figure that the Beast relates directly to the territories of Greece, Iran, and Iraq. However, that doesn't sound like a world empire that strikes fear in the rest of the world. Iraq, Iran, and Greece are certainly not world class powers at present!

    The only thing that I could see strike fear in the whole world would be a superpower like the U.S. or Russia. The U.S. is part of the old Western Roman tradition. And Russia is part of the old Eastern Roman tradition. Perhaps they are the two big toes of Nebuchadnezzar's dream? They each may represent a different "foot" in Nebuchadnezzar's dream?

    Personally, I hope the U.S. has nothing to do with the Beast Empire, since the U.S. is my country. What we're seeing here right now is a terrible apostasy from Christian standards in one of our major political parties, the Democrat Party. I'm not sure the Republican Party is much better, though. There is Christian religion in each party. But much of the "religion" in the Democrat Party is on the Far Left of mainstream Christianity, and is moving mainstream Christianity itself to the extreme Left. Who knows where this will ultimately take the U.S.?

    Thanks for your thoughts!

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    Re: Which is the Beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Well, that certainly stirs up a lot of interesting speculation! I personally have a question with whether the "little horn" refers to a *small country* or to an *individual,* as opposed to a nation. Do you have a thought on that?

    I've long thought that the fact Rome essentially broke into two major divisions indicates a correlation with the two legs of the "Nebuchadnezzar's dream." In other words, the "2 legs" of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, and the "4th Kingdom" of Daniel's dream, appear to reference the Eastern and the Western divisions of the ancient Roman Empire.

    If so, it seems likely to me that 5 of the nations should come from the Eastern division, and 5 of the nations should come from the Western division. Does this sound reasonable to you? Five toes are on one foot, and five toes are on the other foot?

    But your point that this is a leopard in body also sounds reasonable. It may be that the use of these three animals in the Beast Empire refers to the ancient empires they correlate with: Greece, Persia, and Babylon, the leopard, the bear, and the lion?

    And if the body is a leopard that would mean the main body of the Beast Empire would correlate with the ancient Greek empire? But I'm not sure the leopard body is meant to correlate with the Greek empire at all? Perhaps it is just an indication that the Beast empire has a capacity for quick military mobilization? Like ancient Greece the Beast Empire will be able to strike lightning fast.

    We could, if we accept the "animal correlation" theory, figure that the Beast relates directly to the territories of Greece, Iran, and Iraq. However, that doesn't sound like a world empire that strikes fear in the rest of the world. Iraq, Iran, and Greece are certainly not world class powers at present!

    The only thing that I could see strike fear in the whole world would be a superpower like the U.S. or Russia. The U.S. is part of the old Western Roman tradition. And Russia is part of the old Eastern Roman tradition. Perhaps they are the two big toes of Nebuchadnezzar's dream? They each may represent a different "foot" in Nebuchadnezzar's dream?

    Personally, I hope the U.S. has nothing to do with the Beast Empire, since the U.S. is my country. What we're seeing here right now is a terrible apostasy from Christian standards in one of our major political parties, the Democrat Party. I'm not sure the Republican Party is much better, though. There is Christian religion in each party. But much of the "religion" in the Democrat Party is on the Far Left of mainstream Christianity, and is moving mainstream Christianity itself to the extreme Left. Who knows where this will ultimately take the U.S.?

    Thanks for your thoughts!
    Regarding horns, if you study Daniel 7 and 8 it is easy to conclude horns represent the relative size of a kingdom foremost. IF human characteristics are given to a horn, then that horn represent the leader of that kingdom. To try and apply small horns and large horns to leaders makes no sense because once a leader is introduced into these prophecies they are always powerful with widespread empires. So the size of the horn relates to the size of them kingdom. A small horn therefore being a small kingdom/country.

    The statue is obviously depicted in the Babylonian way, legs together feet apart. The first part of Rome was not divided, historically and in a Babylonian statue. The feet are the divided part in both a Babylonian statue and history, it was later that Rome divided. Your point about the five toes is a good one, only contradicted by the fact that in essence the leopard empire was Middle Eastern and not European. And the European end-times region is described as the whore hated by the beast and not described as the beast in Rev 17. You would like to associate the speed of the leopard with the verse that says "the beast resembles the leopard", is there any reason you favor speed over geographical area?

    I don't need to debate the leopard being Greece, anyone read Daniel 7 and history and see the two part nature of Persia and the four part nature of Greece to see if these kingdoms match the bear and leopard respectively.

    As for striking fear, it is entirely possible that the USA will be sidelined as a superpower by then. With the EU supporting this beast initially and a huge Islamic powerhouse in the centre of earth combining the growing power of Turkey with Iran , and yet with massive economic growth regions from the destroyed economies of Iraq and Egypt and Syria and Afghanistan will make it the growth centre of earth. Not just that, at the centrepice of this massive union will be Israel and the Jewish/Syrian antichrist. A more powerful political/religious figure than the Pope, Caliph and Dalai Lama.

    http://www.turkishislamicunion.com/

    Already Islam calls for this massive Turkish union with Israel as it's ally. Islam is planning this. They are a little more ambitious in the website than the bible predicts but the vision of Islam matches the beast and the sinful peacetime of Israel as described in Ezekiel 38/39

  9. #9

    Re: Which is the Beast?

    do you think extraterrestrials (demons) will somehow be a part of the deception?

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    Re: Which is the Beast?

    I don't need to debate the leopard being Greece, anyone read Daniel 7 and history and see the two part nature of Persia and the four part nature of Greece to see if these kingdoms match the bear and leopard respectively.
    Funny. Because Daniel 7's kingdoms are all allowed to live briefly after the Ancient of Days takes his throne. Also, the four of those kingdoms all arise from the sean, and operate at the same time.... that's rather the opposite of what you're saying, Durban.

    Further more, the Persia was never associated with a Bear historically. Russia is a Bear, that's pretty clear. And Greece wasn't ever divided into two sets of wings.

    Wings by the way represent strategic military mobility. The Babylonians used horsemen, the British (the lion of Daniel 7) used ships. The greeks were not especially mobile, they used tactics and technology. The leopard, by the way, represents Nazi Germany, which has always had a relationship with being a Leopard.

    Panzer tank = (Panther tank)
    Blizkrieg = Blitz attack (rapid attack - extremely agile mobile army)

    I mean just look at it straightforwardly. Babylon didn't rise from the sea, nor did Persia..... these empires eliminated and replaced each other, they were not allowed to live during the ancient of days rule....

    C'mon. Get serious!

    do you think extraterrestrials (demons) will somehow be a part of the deception?
    nope.
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

  11. #11

    Re: Which is the Beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Regarding horns, if you study Daniel 7 and 8 it is easy to conclude horns represent the relative size of a kingdom foremost. IF human characteristics are given to a horn, then that horn represent the leader of that kingdom. To try and apply small horns and large horns to leaders makes no sense because once a leader is introduced into these prophecies they are always powerful with widespread empires. So the size of the horn relates to the size of them kingdom. A small horn therefore being a small kingdom/country.

    The statue is obviously depicted in the Babylonian way, legs together feet apart. The first part of Rome was not divided, historically and in a Babylonian statue. The feet are the divided part in both a Babylonian statue and history, it was later that Rome divided. Your point about the five toes is a good one, only contradicted by the fact that in essence the leopard empire was Middle Eastern and not European. And the European end-times region is described as the whore hated by the beast and not described as the beast in Rev 17. You would like to associate the speed of the leopard with the verse that says "the beast resembles the leopard", is there any reason you favor speed over geographical area?
    I'm looking strictly at the attributes of these particular beasts. That's what you would think when you consider this kind of *trait* in a military power. It may be powerful and lumbering, like a bear. It may be quick like a cheetah. It may be evasive like a rabbit. You know--I'm just talking about characteristics, and not a necessary relationship to a particular country.

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude
    I don't need to debate the leopard being Greece, anyone read Daniel 7 and history and see the two part nature of Persia and the four part nature of Greece to see if these kingdoms match the bear and leopard respectively.
    The problem with this is, we're talking about Rev 13 and not Dan 7! If we *know* that Rev 13 is referring to the *kingdoms* in Dan 7, fine. But for all I know Rev 13 may just be using the same animal characteristics as Dan 7 and yet to be applied to different nations?

    In other words, what prevents us from seeing that there will be a new kind of "leopard nation" with qualities just like ancient Greece, and yet *not* ancient Greece? How do we know the "leopard" in Rev 13 refers to Greece? If so, why didn't Rev 13 simply come out and refer to it as "leopard Greece?" But for some reason it didn't. And that may be significant.

    You see, Rev 13 only refers to a single Beast, indicating a single empire. The leopard, bear, and lion cannot represent 3 separate kingdoms, Greece, Persia, and Babylon. The Beast represent the Roman Empire. And the "10 toes" represent a future state of this empire, after it has broken up into 10 states.

    Thus, I think these animal characteristics contain the same *kind* of traits that formerly existed in Greece, Persia, and Babylon. But I doubt they include their specific countries, or their specific geographical territories.

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude
    As for striking fear, it is entirely possible that the USA will be sidelined as a superpower by then. With the EU supporting this beast initially and a huge Islamic powerhouse in the centre of earth combining the growing power of Turkey with Iran , and yet with massive economic growth regions from the destroyed economies of Iraq and Egypt and Syria and Afghanistan will make it the growth centre of earth. Not just that, at the centrepice of this massive union will be Israel and the Jewish/Syrian antichrist. A more powerful political/religious figure than the Pope, Caliph and Dalai Lama.
    The problem I find with this is that it seems to "futuristic." These are not present realities. It would push eschatological fulfillment too far into the future. And it would make everything that's been done this far seem a failure. I certainly don't think the U.S. will disappear or be completely destroyed. But it certainly will suffer some judgment. I don't think God reserved the U.S. for these endtimes only to make it "go away."

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude
    http://www.turkishislamicunion.com/

    Already Islam calls for this massive Turkish union with Israel as it's ally. Islam is planning this. They are a little more ambitious in the website than the bible predicts but the vision of Islam matches the beast and the sinful peacetime of Israel as described in Ezekiel 38/39
    Alright. Thanks for your thoughts...

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    Re: Which is the Beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    We now have conflict over a Middle Eastern country, Syria by two major players, the U.S. in the West and Russia in the East. Who do you think the Beast will be, Western, Eastern, or Middle Eastern?

    I think the Beast rises out of the ancient Roman Empire. Rome was the 4th empire of Daniel's dream, and the rock that eventually destroyed it was Christ, who was born in the time of the ancient Roman Empire. It is the rock that will eventually destroy the Beast.

    Only Christ did not immediately establish his Kingdom. So he did not bring his Kingdom to earth immediately. Instead he suffered death, and has allowed his followers to suffer persecution. The Kingdom did not come.

    But Daniel said the 4th empire would break up into 10 nations. Who do you think these nations will be, if they are to issue out of the old Roman Empire? What nations have emerged out of the old Roman tradition?

    Interestingly, Rome, though Western, also had an Eastern portion, which became the Byzantine Empire. It was a Greek, or Eastern, tradition. Eventually it became the Russian Empire, which assumed the Greek Orthodox tradition.

    Perhaps the Beast will have two portions? Let me know your thoughts in this regard...
    The beast was a demon in control of Rome and its leaders back in the first century which wasn't a part of Daniels statue.

    Rev 17:10
    10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

    The above verse proves that it was back in John's day as it says "one is"

  13. #13

    Re: Which is the Beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    Funny. Because Daniel 7's kingdoms are all allowed to live briefly after the Ancient of Days takes his throne. Also, the four of those kingdoms all arise from the sean, and operate at the same time.... that's rather the opposite of what you're saying, Durban.

    Further more, the Persia was never associated with a Bear historically. Russia is a Bear, that's pretty clear. And Greece wasn't ever divided into two sets of wings.

    Wings by the way represent strategic military mobility. The Babylonians used horsemen, the British (the lion of Daniel 7) used ships. The greeks were not especially mobile, they used tactics and technology. The leopard, by the way, represents Nazi Germany, which has always had a relationship with being a Leopard.

    Panzer tank = (Panther tank)
    Blizkrieg = Blitz attack (rapid attack - extremely agile mobile army)

    I mean just look at it straightforwardly. Babylon didn't rise from the sea, nor did Persia..... these empires eliminated and replaced each other, they were not allowed to live during the ancient of days rule....

    C'mon. Get serious!



    nope.
    The beast in Rev. 13 and Dan. 7 speak of the same kingdom AND king. Dan 7:17 clearly says that they are 4 kings (and they each rule over a kingdom). Each king is represented by a different beast. A lion, a Bear, a Leopard and the little horn. The remaining descriptors given to each BEAST are symbolic indicators to their geographic region that they have dominion over. Those beastly characteristic descriptors carry over to the Rev. 13 beast. He will encompass all of their dominions. I would simply refer you back to Daniel 7 where it says that their dominion was taken away. That is the result of what the little horn does- he treads the whole world into pieces. The dominions (geographically speaking) lost by the 3 kings (lion, bear & leopard) are sucked up by the little horn, the Rev 13 beast in a power vacuum.

    A prophecy found in 2 Esdras 11-12 clarifies that the eagle and his feathers (directly addressed in ch. 12) represents the kingdom and the lion speaks directly to the king, along with the other two heads (leopard and bear). A couple of fascinating things come out of this prophecy. The three heads on the eagle are given back their dominion (found in Daniel to be after a season and a time- about 15 months) for the purpose of bringing judgment to the little horn and his kingdom. The kingdom of the eagle, which I believe points unquestionably to the USA, will be restored to its former state, but not before going through some rough, tumultuous days, including judgment for HER unrighteousness. But if one does not grasp that the 4 beasts of Daniel 7 are indeed 4 last days kingdoms and 4 last days kings, one will never grasp the prophecy found there in Daniel 7 or 2 Esdras 11,12.
    Blessings to all who keeps the sayings and the prophecy of HIS book!
    GB

  14. #14

    Re: Which is the Beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    We now have conflict over a Middle Eastern country, Syria by two major players, the U.S. in the West and Russia in the East. Who do you think the Beast will be, Western, Eastern, or Middle Eastern?
    Western.

    The beast will rise up from the United States.

    The "earth" from Revelation 13 is the same "earth" that helped the woman from Revelation 12.

    In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue. There were four blood moons and God was opening up a new continent.

    The "earth" was being made ready to swallow up a flood that spewed forth from the dragon's mouth during the dark ages of Europe.


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    Re: Which is the Beast?

    What beast rises up?

    First we see this beast in heaven. Thus this right off the bat eliminates any known country.

    Rev 12
    3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    This beast which was in heaven is cast down to earth....(note I say INTO the earth).

    Rev 13
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    Now this beast which was in heaven and cast into the earth now rises up from the sea. Note the "sea" here would a literal sea in which John is looking out over in his vision. But it come up from the sea in which beneath would be the pit.

    Rev 17
    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    Now we see this beast upon the earth.


    This beast is no country. It has no name. The common mistake is to equate these four kingdom with Dan 2. Dan 7 is a sub set of Dan 2. These four kingdoms in Dan 7 come out from the 3rd kingdom.....

    1. Babylon
    2. M/P
    3. Grecia

    4. Grecia divided into 4 parts

    A. Lion
    B. Bear
    C. Leopard
    D. Beast


    This beast is from the pit. Demonic kingdom. The beast that was in heaven , and is not (in pit), yet is (on earth).

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