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Thread: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

  1. #316
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by ICONBUSTERS View Post
    As do I. You have yet to grasp the Gospel, the work of Christ as Mediator, which is the foundation of Christianity.
    I have no problem with Christ as Mediator. I do have a problem with the false doctrine of the satisfaction theory atonement which is NOT the foundation of Christianity, as I have shown.

  2. #317
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    I think He does pick who to draw... every man gets drawn. But not every man receives the truth. In other words, I am not convinced that every drawn man gets saved.
    Hooah, I've been in such discussions. College too... much fun

    Judas was clearly drawn, Demas was clearly drawn, Ananias and his wife... some I've used in discussion.


    So on the other side of my previous response. God knows WHO will NOT respond in faith, some respond but not by faith. Such is either calling. A calling unto righteousness or a calling unto UNrighteousness. God NEEDS both for His plans to play out. So, those who He knows will respond faithfully, when the drawing happens, they are CALLED to works of righteousness. Those who He know will not respond faithfully, then when their drawing happens, it is a calling unto works of unrighteousness. Thus God is sovereign, He's righteous, and He's holy in drawing 12 disciples and calling them to train under Jesus... even though one would be lost. Only 1 drawn AND called to serve God... as a vessel of unrighteousness to his utter destruction.

    Done, I think
    Slug1--out

    ~Are we a church of members (fans of Jesus) or a church of disciples (servants of Jesus)??~

    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



  3. #318

    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    God leaves people in unbelief, because they do not believe and reject the truth. God does not force people to believe if they do not want to. God respects their decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    I don't know because Scripture does not reveal the reasons for God's election. IMO this would be the same dilemma for Arminians or free will believers. Why would He leave you in your unbelief? He intervened dramatically for Paul, why not everyone?

  4. #319
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    I see it explained in 1 Cor 15:23

    1Co 15:23 But each one will be raised in proper order: Christ, first of all; then, at the time of his coming, those who belong to him.
    The passage Brother Mark pointed to is about judgment, in context. Every knee/every tongue, not just "those who belong to him". All are resurrected, but not all to life. Death and hell are raised too.

  5. #320
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    God leaves people in unbelief, because they do not believe and reject the truth. God does not force people to believe if they do not want to. God respects their decision.
    God leaves people in unbelief, because they do not believe and reject the truth. Agreed.

    God does not force people to believe if they do not want to. God respects their decision. This is debatable.

    God do not force you to believe against your will, the Spirit working in you and on you enable you to come to believe. Without this working, none would come to believe as none seeks God. We must keep in mind that some come to God, but not because He is God, but because of themselves. They are the ones who fall away as in the parable of the sower. Those who were drawn by God are those who bear fruit and do not fall away as God promised.

  6. #321
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Hooah, I've been in such discussions. College too... much fun

    Judas was clearly drawn, Demas was clearly drawn, Ananias and his wife... some I've used in discussion.


    So on the other side of my previous response. God knows WHO will NOT respond in faith, some respond but not by faith. Such is either calling. A calling unto righteousness or a calling unto UNrighteousness. God NEEDS both for His plans to play out. So, those who He knows will respond faithfully, when the drawing happens, they are CALLED to works of righteousness. Those who He know will not respond faithfully, then when their drawing happens, it is a calling unto works of unrighteousness. Thus God is sovereign, He's righteous, and He's holy in drawing 12 disciples and calling them to train under Jesus... even though one would be lost. Only 1 drawn AND called to serve God... as a vessel of unrighteousness to his utter destruction.

    Done, I think
    Judas was clearly not drawn, because he was never given to Christ, he never believed. God used him as was prophesied about him. God uses the righteous and the unrighteous, but he was not drawn by the Father.

  7. #322
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    The passage Brother Mark pointed to is about judgment, in context. Every knee/every tongue, not just "those who belong to him". All are resurrected, but not all to life. Death and hell are raised too.
    OK I have no problems with this post.

  8. #323
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Can't agree. The terms utilized in Greek do not mean "the elect." The scripture is about Christ dying for the world. The term utilized is all encompassing, not limiting to some but all. What all, a nation, a people... no. The term to answer this "who" is pas, which means "all individuals." All individuals of what? A nation, a people... no. All individuals of the world.

    Christ's love is not limited. His death is not limited...
    Can't agree. Look at post #309. I know it is long.

  9. #324
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Judas was clearly not drawn, because he was never given to Christ, he never believed. God used him as was prophesied about him. God uses the righteous and the unrighteous, but he was not drawn by the Father.
    If it was NOT time for Judas to be drawn, then Jesus would have never asked him to "follow Him." Nor would the Bible teach us that Judas is the ONLY one Jesus lost of those "given" to Him by the Father.
    Slug1--out

    ~Are we a church of members (fans of Jesus) or a church of disciples (servants of Jesus)??~

    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



  10. #325
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    If it was NOT time for Judas to be drawn, then Jesus would have never asked him to "follow Him." Nor would the Bible teach us that Judas is the ONLY one Jesus lost of those "given" to Him by the Father.
    Scripture for this please.

  11. #326
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    I think I have said it already.
    The world ( kosmos ) is not the elect. You have not said that already. In fact, you have been trying to explain how the word kosmos ( whole wide world ) actually means elect ( a chosen few out of the world ) . It just doesn't fit. Sorry.

  12. #327
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Can't agree. The terms utilized in Greek do not mean "the elect." The scripture is about Christ dying for the world. The term utilized is all encompassing, not limiting to some but all. What all, a nation, a people... no. The term to answer this "who" is pas, which means "all individuals." All individuals of what? A nation, a people... no. All individuals of the world.

    Christ's love is not limited. His death is not limited...
    And we know this from reading deeper into John 3, vs. 17 and 18. " For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world but that through Him , the world might be saved" " He that believes in Him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"...

    The "world" or Kosmos..... is used in the context of believers and unbelievers right here.... No IF.... No AND... No BUT...... It's black and white. Anyone who can read these verses and believe that the kosmos don't consist of the entire world ...well , you are being irrational.

  13. #328
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Kosmos is one, single, whole. Whosoever have to do with those that believe and all of them would be saved. There are no contextual link between all the believers and the world except that believers came from the world. The word world do not need an adjective to describe if it is all or not, the believers do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Then according to your stance the text could have read "For God so loved the elect" ????? If that was the intent , then it could have easily been conveyed by using the term that is used frequently in the N.T. "Elect".
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    No, He loved the world, Jew and Gentile. Also He came so creation could also be set free. The elect are those who would believe and be saved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    The world ( kosmos ) is not the elect. You have not said that already. In fact, you have been trying to explain how the word kosmos ( whole wide world ) actually means elect ( a chosen few out of the world ) . It just doesn't fit. Sorry.
    What am I missing here? Whosoever are the elect and it are they who are saved, for whom Christ died. The manner in which God saves the world is your faith in Christ who have died for you. I agree that the elect are not the world/kosmos but from it.

  14. #329
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Read post 327... That's what you are missing brother. That underlined word might , is a big one.

  15. #330
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Read post 327... That's what you are missing brother. That underlined word might , is a big one.
    I do not see where it say anything different than what I said. Believers are part of the world, and part of the world might be saved.

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