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Thread: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

  1. #346
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Yea... but I am not sure he was ever saved nor am I sure he was not saved. Many will say in that day "Lord, Lord did we not do miracles in your name... but He will say 'Depart from me... I never knew you'"

    If Jesus never knew them, they were never saved. But they did miracles in His name.
    For this element of dilemma dealing with "people" believing they are believers of God, determination if they were operating in the power of God or the devil... helps.

    Judas operated in the power of God when he was sent out healing and casting out demons and I do not think that can be contested.
    Slug1--out

    ~At the end of the day, the Cross we bear... is small!~

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~


    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



  2. #347
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    For this element of dilemma dealing with "people" believing they are believers of God, determination if they were operating in the power of God or the devil... helps.

    Judas operated in the power of God and I do not think that can be contested.
    Just to be clear. Do you say if someone operate in the power of God they are/were saved?

    Some clarification please.

  3. #348
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Just to be clear. Do you say if someone operate in the power of God they are/were saved?

    Some clarification please.
    I do not believe an unsaved person can operate in or be given supernatural power by God.
    Slug1--out

    ~At the end of the day, the Cross we bear... is small!~

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~


    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



  4. #349
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    I do not believe an unsaved person can operate in or be given supernatural power by God.
    So a person cannot receive it, but a donkey can?

  5. #350
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    So a person cannot receive it, but a donkey can?
    To my understanding, God spoke through the donkey.

    v28 Then the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?”

    The donkey was not "empowered" to speak and say something like... "the Lord says"

    I am careful in viewing what the scriptures are meaning, not what we want them to mean.

    So... I stand by that an unsaved person will not be given His power to heal and cast out demons while they do around proclaiming God.

    Besides... a donkey has nothing to do with saved or unsaved and should never be raised as an issue of position whether or not, saved or unsaved people are given God's power to do "His" work on the earth. Which goes back to my being careful in finding meaning that is relevant and thus, impacts any given topic.

    If the issue is about saved and unsaved PEOPLE, then a speaking donkey, rock, whatever has no bearing.

    So now tell me... because you raise this donkey, can I conclude that YOU WILL support (due to what you believe) that an unsaved person CAN be given God's power to heal and cast out demons while proclaiming Him? Because if you want to steer the discussion that way, via your challenging question about a donkey... you better be saying that YES, an unsaved person CAN be given God's power to heal and cast out demons while proclaiming God.

    If you're not gonna do that... why did you raise this donkey?
    Slug1--out

    ~At the end of the day, the Cross we bear... is small!~

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~


    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



  6. #351
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    I do not believe an unsaved person can operate in or be given supernatural power by God.
    What about the chief priest that prophesied it was better for one man to die than the nation?
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  7. #352
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    To my understanding, God spoke through the donkey.

    v28 Then the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?”

    The donkey was not "empowered" to speak and say something like... "the Lord says"

    I am careful in viewing what the scriptures are meaning, not what we want them to mean.

    So... I stand by that an unsaved person will not be given His power to heal and cast out demons while they do around proclaiming God.

    Besides... a donkey has nothing to do with saved or unsaved and should never be raised as an issue of position whether or not, saved or unsaved people are given God's power to do "His" work on the earth. Which goes back to my being careful in finding meaning that is relevant and thus, impacts any given topic.

    If the issue is about saved and unsaved PEOPLE, then a speaking donkey, rock, whatever has no bearing.

    So now tell me... because you raise this donkey, can I conclude that YOU WILL support (due to what you believe) that an unsaved person CAN be given God's power to heal and cast out demons while proclaiming Him? Because if you want to steer the discussion that way, via your challenging question about a donkey... you better be saying that YES, an unsaved person CAN be given God's power to heal and cast out demons while proclaiming God.

    If you're not gonna do that... why did you raise this donkey?
    There are numerous examples of people working in the "power of God and proclaiming Him" that are deceived and unsaved, even speaking in "tongues".

    I am not sure if it is in the power of God or Satan, my feeling is Satan being the great deceiver. The only place I am 100% sure that such a thing did happened and the person worked in the power of God, was Judas.

    I brought up the donkey because if God can work through a donkey, I was wondering then why not a man such as Judas?

  8. #353
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    What about the chief priest that prophesied it was better for one man to die than the nation?
    How do you understand "prophesy"?

    Prophecy is foretelling of the future through divine power given to a person but it is also can be a revealing of God's message.

    Anyway... here is how I understand that verse. God can "prompt" anyone, to include a donkey (or a rock because I'm waiting for that verse to be raised) so that what He needs, is done. So was that priest "given" power of God to speak that way, or were the words inspired and prompted by God?

    This is another highly debated topic
    Slug1--out

    ~At the end of the day, the Cross we bear... is small!~

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~


    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



  9. #354
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    There are numerous examples of people working in the "power of God and proclaiming Him" that are deceived and unsaved, even speaking in "tongues".

    I am not sure if it is in the power of God or Satan, my feeling is Satan being the great deceiver. The only place I am 100% sure that such a thing did happened and the person worked in the power of God, was Judas.

    I brought up the donkey because if God can work through a donkey, I was wondering then why not a man such as Judas?
    So, is the conclusion that you believe God will supernaturally give His power to an unsaved person, a correct conclusion?
    Slug1--out

    ~At the end of the day, the Cross we bear... is small!~

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~


    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



  10. #355
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    So, is the conclusion that you believe God will supernaturally give His power to an unsaved person, a correct conclusion?
    Regarding Judas, yes.

    Regarding the rest, not sure but would say no.

  11. #356
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Regarding Judas, yes.

    Regarding the rest, not sure but would say no.
    Wow...

    You don't really believe God would give His power to unsaved (I assume the "rest" and your answer of NO) but you assuredly break that unsure belief of NO, by saying YES, concerning Judas?

    Does this assured breaking of the unsure NO, cause you to remain true to the Reformed position?

    I ask because if you honestly studied this and can be assured WHO God gives His supernatural power too (not any promptings)... is it a possibility a tenet of the Reformed position would be in jeopardy?

    Seems God is confusing
    Slug1--out

    ~At the end of the day, the Cross we bear... is small!~

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~


    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



  12. #357
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Wow...

    You don't really believe God would give His power to unsaved (I assume the "rest" and your answer of NO) but you assuredly break that unsure belief of NO, by saying YES, concerning Judas?

    Does this assured breaking of the unsure NO, cause you to remain true to the Reformed position?

    I ask because if you honestly studied this and can be assured WHO God gives His supernatural power too (not any promptings)... is it a possibility a tenet of the Reformed position would be in jeopardy?

    Seems God is confusing
    Not at all, it is only my understanding of Scripture. Scripture IMO is clear that Judas was never saved and thus an unbeliever. Scripture is also clear that Jesus gave him directly authority and power to cast out demons and heal the sick together with the other 11. This authority and power was from God. That is why I say I am 100% sure of Judas and that it did happened.

    Why I am not sure is because of Mar 9:38-41. There it seems that someone not following Christ, who may be an unbeliever did miracles in the name of God. Jesus's answer to leave him because those who are not against us is for us lead me to the conclusion that God will allow it if it honours His name.

    Also I am not sure in whose power the Pharisees cast out demons. But as I said, I am not sure.

  13. #358
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Not at all, it is only my understanding of Scripture. Scripture IMO is clear that Judas was never saved and thus an unbeliever. Scripture is also clear that Jesus gave him directly authority and power to cast out demons and heal the sick together with the other 11. This authority and power was from God. That is why I say I am 100% sure of Judas and that it did happened.

    Why I am not sure is because of Mar 9:38-41. There it seems that someone not following Christ, who may be an unbeliever did miracles in the name of God. Jesus's answer to leave him because those who are not against us is for us lead me to the conclusion that God will allow it if it honours His name.

    Also I am not sure in whose power the Pharisees cast out demons. But as I said, I am not sure.
    Actually, you just raised something that I thought about earlier and was gonna raise. "Authority" is inherent in the name of Jesus Christ. Will write more in a bit.
    Slug1--out

    ~At the end of the day, the Cross we bear... is small!~

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~


    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



  14. #359
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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    I would like to post the following also for your consideration. According to this we know that people who were not believers did drove out spirits in Jesus name. According to my understanding it must be by the power of God. So perhaps I was wrong to think that unbelievers could not operate in the power of God.

    Act 19:13 Some Jews who traveled around and drove out evil spirits also tried to use the name of the Lord Jesus to do this. They said to the evil spirits, "I command you in the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches."

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    Re: Is Christ Mediator to all Mankind?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    How do you understand "prophesy"?

    Prophecy is foretelling of the future through divine power given to a person but it is also can be a revealing of God's message.

    Anyway... here is how I understand that verse. God can "prompt" anyone, to include a donkey (or a rock because I'm waiting for that verse to be raised) so that what He needs, is done. So was that priest "given" power of God to speak that way, or were the words inspired and prompted by God?

    This is another highly debated topic
    I think in this case, he foretold the future. And scripture says he did it by the power of the Lord.

    John 11:49-53
    49 But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation should not perish." 51 Now this he did not say on his own initiative; but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. 53 So from that day on they planned together to kill Him.
    NASB
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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