Page 1 of 13 123456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 194

Thread: Interesting Connections

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    6,059
    Blog Entries
    1

    Interesting Connections

    I'm making this thread to show observations I have made recently which may be significant to your end-times considerations.

    A) The persecution of the saints lasts for "a time times and half a time" (TTHT): (Dan. 7:21-22, 25)

    B) The "dragon's war on the saints" occurs during the TTHT after being thrown down to Earth: (Rev. 12:13-14, 17)

    C) The TTHT and "1,260 days" are the same: (Rev. 12:6, 14)

    D) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with resurrection: (Dan. 12:1-2, 6-7) + (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)

    E) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with judgment: (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)* + (Rev. 11:15, 18) + (Dan. 7:21, 25-27)

    F) The "thousand years" concludes with resurrection and judgment: (Rev. 20:7, 10, 12, 15)

    G) The "thousand years" concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 20:7)

    H) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 11:3, 7)

    My personal inferences based on the above notes:

    The TTHT/1260 days/"thousand years" are all identical. They describe a single time period from different perspectives as opposed to multiple time periods each with one perspective. They also end with the 7th Trumpet (see Rev. 11), which coincides with the Second Coming as mentioned by Paul's "last trumpet" in 1 Corinthians 15. The thousand years must end - rather than begin - with the return of Christ and our receiving the inheritance.



    Quick-look verses (ESV):

    A) As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom.... He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. (Dan. 7:21-22, 25)

    B) And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.... Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Rev. 12:13-14, 17)

    C) ...The woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.... she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time... (Rev. 12:6, 14)

    D) At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.... How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?” And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished. (Dan. 12:1-2, 6-7)

    • And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.... And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them.... But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)

    E) (*context in D•) Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”.... The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth. (Rev. 11:15, 18)

    • As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High.... they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.... But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end. (Dan. 7:21, 25-27)

    F) And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison.... and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur.... And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.... And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:7, 10, 12, 15)

    G) And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison... (Rev. 20:7)

    H) And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.... And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them... (Rev. 11:3, 7)
    Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone.
    The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
    And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Ph 4

  2. #2

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Sounds a little like how the Amillennialist viewpoint comes to its conclusion.



    Rev12:12-14

    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

  3. #3

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    I'm making this thread to show observations I have made recently which may be significant to your end-times considerations.

    A) The persecution of the saints lasts for "a time times and half a time" (TTHT): (Dan. 7:21-22, 25)

    B) The "dragon's war on the saints" occurs during the TTHT after being thrown down to Earth: (Rev. 12:13-14, 17)

    C) The TTHT and "1,260 days" are the same: (Rev. 12:6, 14)

    D) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with resurrection: (Dan. 12:1-2, 6-7) + (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)

    E) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with judgment: (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)* + (Rev. 11:15, 18) + (Dan. 7:21, 25-27)

    F) The "thousand years" concludes with resurrection and judgment: (Rev. 20:7, 10, 12, 15)

    G) The "thousand years" concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 20:7)

    H) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 11:3, 7)

    My personal inferences based on the above notes:

    The TTHT/1260 days/"thousand years" are all identical. They describe a single time period from different perspectives as opposed to multiple time periods each with one perspective. They also end with the 7th Trumpet (see Rev. 11), which coincides with the Second Coming as mentioned by Paul's "last trumpet" in 1 Corinthians 15. The thousand years must end - rather than begin - with the return of Christ and our receiving the inheritance.
    Interesting corrrelations. I just find that the Millennium and Tribulation Period are too different to be the same. You've probably heard all of the arguments against the idea that the Millennial Reign presently exists?

    I do see a correlation between Christ's present reign in heaven and the future Millennial Reign of Christ. But the present Reign of Christ in heaven is a progressive defeat of Satan whereas the Millennial Reign of Christ is instantaneous, with the imprisonment of the Devil at Christ's coming.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    6,059
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Interesting corrrelations. I just find that the Millennium and Tribulation Period are too different to be the same. You've probably heard all of the arguments against the idea that the Millennial Reign presently exists?

    I do see a correlation between Christ's present reign in heaven and the future Millennial Reign of Christ. But the present Reign of Christ in heaven is a progressive defeat of Satan whereas the Millennial Reign of Christ is instantaneous, with the imprisonment of the Devil at Christ's coming.
    How do you reconcile the two witnesses being killed (or "completion of the tribulation period" in your view?) happening with the beast rising from the bottomless pit?
    Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone.
    The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
    And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Ph 4

  5. #5

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    How do you reconcile the two witnesses being killed (or "completion of the tribulation period" in your view?) happening with the beast rising from the bottomless pit?
    I just recently addressed this. Yes, the Beast is identified as the one who rises from the bottomless pit. But the passage does not indicate *when* the Beast rises from the bottomless pit. The reference to his *rising from the pit* is just an identifier in order to describe who this Beast is. He is someone who had been in the Abyss.

    I believe the Abyss is a place of obscurity, where demons are held until they have a role to play or until judgment. Like the "deep" out of which God created the world so the Abyss is the primordial place prepared by God for demons who had rebelled against Him.

    Apparently demons can arise out of the Abyss if God so allows it. This Beast is the one who rises up out of the Abyss to fulfill the role of Antichrist, I believe.

    I think, therefore, that you're misreading the identifier as the placement of time at which this event occurs. This does not identify *when* this event occurs--when the Beast arises up out of the Abyss. It only identifies who the Beast is, as one who had *arisen out of the Abyss* in order to understand that he is the Antichrist.

    I don't believe the Antichrist rises up out of the Abyss at the end of the Tribulation Period. Rather, he is the one who had arisen out of the Abyss *before the Tribulation Period,* and at the end of 3.5 years of rule kills the 2 Prophets. I trust I'm making clear my position?

    Rev 11.7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss* will attack them, and overpower and kill them.

    * This is the one who is to come up from the Abyss--the Antichrist. We read about a star earlier in the Revelation.

    Rev 9.1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace.

    This "star" represents the Antichrist, I believe. The fact he is *fallen from heaven* indicates that this represents a man of apostasy. It is the Beast Empire that rises up out of the Abyss--perhaps a "fatal wound." The Roman Empire had fallen, but this is a resurrection of that old empire. The Beast himself is the "man of sin" who heads this empire. He will rise up out of the Abyss, ie out of the judgment against the old Roman Empire, and assume a position of leadership doomed to failure.

    So the rise of this Beast from the Abyss actually takes place *before* the reign of this new great Empire. He is identified as the one who had risen up out of the Abyss to assume leadership over this new empire. This is the one who will also kill the 2 Prophets at the end of his period of rule.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    16,627

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post

    F) The "thousand years" concludes with resurrection and judgment: (Rev. 20:7, 10, 12, 15)
    Actually though, when the thousand years concludes, satan's little season begins. If one is non Premil, the 2nd coming does not happen at the end of the thousand years, but after satan's little season instead. Per this view, if one inserts a resurrection at the end of the thousand years, which would be the beginning of satan's little season, followed by the return of Christ after all of that, one has then placed a physical resurrection of the dead taking place before Christ even returns.

    But since you seem to be saying the 1260 days and the thousand years are referring to the same time period, what about the time period after the thousand years, satan's little season?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    6,059
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I don't believe the Antichrist rises up out of the Abyss at the end of the Tribulation Period. Rather, he is the one who had arisen out of the Abyss *before the Tribulation Period,* and at the end of 3.5 years of rule kills the 2 Prophets. I trust I'm making clear my position?
    Yep, thanks for the explanation and your perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Actually though, when the thousand years concludes, satan's little season begins. If one is non Premil, the 2nd coming does not happen at the end of the thousand years, but after satan's little season instead. Per this view, if one inserts a resurrection at the end of the thousand years, which would be the beginning of satan's little season, followed by the return of Christ after all of that, one has then placed a physical resurrection of the dead taking place before Christ even returns.

    But since you seem to be saying the 1260 days and the thousand years are referring to the same time period, what about the time period after the thousand years, satan's little season?
    Both the thousand years and 1260 have a short period of time between the rising and the actual judgment itself - see (H) where the beast rises, a short time and the third/final woe, judgment of the dead, is "soon to come."
    Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone.
    The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
    And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Ph 4

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    16,627

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post



    Both the thousand years and 1260 have a short period of time between the rising and the actual judgment itself - see (H) where the beast rises, a short time and the third/final woe, judgment of the dead, is "soon to come."

    Can't say I'm exactly following what you are getting at here. Can you expand on this further?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    6,059
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Can't say I'm exactly following what you are getting at here. Can you expand on this further?
    When I said both the 1260 and thousand years conclude with judgment, I was just simplifying. But both the 1260 and thousand years each depict a short period of time between the release from the pit and the judgment itself.
    Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone.
    The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
    And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Ph 4

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,330
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    I'm making this thread to show observations I have made recently which may be significant to your end-times considerations.

    A) The persecution of the saints lasts for "a time times and half a time" (TTHT): (Dan. 7:21-22, 25)

    B) The "dragon's war on the saints" occurs during the TTHT after being thrown down to Earth: (Rev. 12:13-14, 17)

    C) The TTHT and "1,260 days" are the same: (Rev. 12:6, 14)

    D) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with resurrection: (Dan. 12:1-2, 6-7) + (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)

    E) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with judgment: (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)* + (Rev. 11:15, 18) + (Dan. 7:21, 25-27)

    F) The "thousand years" concludes with resurrection and judgment: (Rev. 20:7, 10, 12, 15)

    G) The "thousand years" concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 20:7)

    H) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 11:3, 7)

    My personal inferences based on the above notes:

    The TTHT/1260 days/"thousand years" are all identical. They describe a single time period from different perspectives as opposed to multiple time periods each with one perspective. They also end with the 7th Trumpet (see Rev. 11), which coincides with the Second Coming as mentioned by Paul's "last trumpet" in 1 Corinthians 15. The thousand years must end - rather than begin - with the return of Christ and our receiving the inheritance.



    Quick-look verses (ESV):

    A) As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom.... He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. (Dan. 7:21-22, 25)

    B) And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.... Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Rev. 12:13-14, 17)

    C) ...The woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.... she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time... (Rev. 12:6, 14)

    D) At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.... How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?” And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished. (Dan. 12:1-2, 6-7)

    • And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.... And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them.... But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)

    E) (*context in D•) Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”.... The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth. (Rev. 11:15, 18)

    • As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High.... they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.... But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end. (Dan. 7:21, 25-27)

    F) And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison.... and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur.... And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.... And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:7, 10, 12, 15)

    G) And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison... (Rev. 20:7)

    H) And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.... And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them... (Rev. 11:3, 7)
    Very insightful observations. Your 7th Trumpet and resurrection in Revelation 11 is a key to unlocking the book IMHO. So, do you identify the 2 witnesses as the Church?
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Clanton Alabama
    Posts
    566

    Re: Interesting Connections

    I'm making this thread to show observations I have made recently which may be significant to your end-times considerations.

    A) The persecution of the saints lasts for "a time times and half a time" (TTHT): (Dan. 7:21-22, 25)......B) The "dragon's war on the saints" occurs during the TTHT after being thrown down to Earth: (Rev. 12:13-14, 17)
    You can add Rev. 13:5-7 to that also and yes the Dragon/Satan is cast down at that time, Micheal stands up Daniel 12:1-2.


    C) The TTHT and "1,260 days" are the same: (Rev. 12:6, 14)
    As for as the Beasts (Anti-Christ) Rule and the TThT that's true, but the Two=Witnesses time-frame does not match up with the Beasts Rule as per the timeline.

    D) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with resurrection: (Dan. 12:1-2, 6-7) + (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)
    No, the Beast is Killed in Revelation 16, it explained in Rev. 19. He is fed to the Burning Fire in Daniel 7:11 and Rev. 19:20. You are confusing the Two-witnesses time lime with the end of the Beasts time-line. And the Resurrection happens before the 70th Week or Jacobs Trouble (Tribulation) anyway. The Two-Witnesses reviving is not the Resurrection.

    E) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with judgment: (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)* + (Rev. 11:15, 18) + (Dan. 7:21, 25-27)
    Rev. 20:4 and Daniel 7:9-10 concludes the Judgments. The Church has already been Judged as worthy in Heaven when they Married the Lamb.

    F) The "thousand years" concludes with resurrection and judgment: (Rev. 20:7, 10, 12, 15)

    G) The "thousand years" concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 20:7)
    It concludes when God casts fire upon all the evil, after they follow Satan once again.

    H) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 11:3, 7)
    They conclude with Jesus destroying Babylon Rev. 16:9 and Rev. 19:20, SAME THING.

    The TTHT/1260 days/"thousand years" are all identical. They describe a single time period from different perspectives as opposed to multiple time periods each with one perspective. They also end with the 7th Trumpet (see Rev. 11), which coincides with the Second Coming as mentioned by Paul's "last trumpet" in 1 Corinthians 15. The thousand years must end - rather than begin - with the return of Christ and our receiving the inheritance.
    The Two-Witnesses show up before the Anti-Christ becomes the BEAST, when he Conquers Israel/Jerusalem. Malachi 4:5-6 says God sends Elijah back before the Terrible Day of the Lord (Gods Wrath) and he turns Israel back to God. Thus they show up a month or two before the BEASTS Timeline of 42 Months starts at the Midway point. Thus they DIE before the Beasts timeline ends. Thus when they die the BEASTS Timeline still has time left. Revelation is not in Chronological order, but the Seals/Trumpets and Vials are in Chronological order.

    The Beast that comes out of the pit is not the BEAST of 42 Month fame. That is a MAN....Just like the Bible calls him, a man. He is cast into hell Daniel 7:11 and in Rev. 19:20 and the Devil joins him 1000 years later in Rev. 20:10. The BEAST from the pit is the 8th King, who is over the Seven. In other words he is a Demon over the Seven Beast Kingdoms (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the MAN...Anti-Christ. That makes 7) The Demon is the 8th, but is OF THE SEVEN. He has not an earthly Kingdom per se, thus there is only 7 Kingdoms, not 8, he was just King over them all, like Jesus is our King.

  12. #12

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    I'm making this thread to show observations I have made recently which may be significant to your end-times considerations.

    A) The persecution of the saints lasts for "a time times and half a time" (TTHT): (Dan. 7:21-22, 25)

    B) The "dragon's war on the saints" occurs during the TTHT after being thrown down to Earth: (Rev. 12:13-14, 17)

    C) The TTHT and "1,260 days" are the same: (Rev. 12:6, 14)

    D) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with resurrection: (Dan. 12:1-2, 6-7) + (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)

    E) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with judgment: (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)* + (Rev. 11:15, 18) + (Dan. 7:21, 25-27)

    F) The "thousand years" concludes with resurrection and judgment: (Rev. 20:7, 10, 12, 15)

    G) The "thousand years" concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 20:7)

    H) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 11:3, 7)

    My personal inferences based on the above notes:

    The TTHT/1260 days/"thousand years" are all identical. They describe a single time period from different perspectives as opposed to multiple time periods each with one perspective. They also end with the 7th Trumpet (see Rev. 11), which coincides with the Second Coming as mentioned by Paul's "last trumpet" in 1 Corinthians 15. The thousand years must end - rather than begin - with the return of Christ and our receiving the inheritance.



    Quick-look verses (ESV):

    A) As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom.... He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time. (Dan. 7:21-22, 25)

    B) And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.... Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Rev. 12:13-14, 17)

    C) ...The woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.... she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time... (Rev. 12:6, 14)

    D) At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.... How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?” And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished. (Dan. 12:1-2, 6-7)

    • And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.... And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them.... But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)

    E) (*context in D•) Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”.... The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth. (Rev. 11:15, 18)

    • As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High.... they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.... But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end. (Dan. 7:21, 25-27)

    F) And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison.... and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur.... And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.... And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:7, 10, 12, 15)

    G) And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison... (Rev. 20:7)

    H) And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.... And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them... (Rev. 11:3, 7)
    There are seven dispensations up to the fulness of God. Every dispensation is made up of three times.

    For example, the dispensation of "1,000 years" in which are holiness, the kingdom, judgment, etc... is made up of three times for the place (for the name), presence (for the glory) and power (for the gospel) of the Lord God.

    A place in the wilderness, prepared for the sun clad woman, is not in the "1,000 years" dispensation. It is in the dispensations of Jesus (both as the Lord and as the Christ) that bear the hope and promise of "1,000 years". Being sun clad tells us from which dispensation she originates. Also, the two "eagle wings" given her and meaning of "1,260 days" tell us to which dispensations she is sent during her times of nourishment.

    There is no way you can properly understand the above paragraphs (also the divine symbols and numbering system) without having the revelation knowledge of the pattern of God that is now made available to saints.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Durban ,South Africa
    Posts
    6,184

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    I'm making this thread to show observations I have made recently which may be significant to your end-times considerations.

    A) The persecution of the saints lasts for "a time times and half a time" (TTHT): (Dan. 7:21-22, 25)

    B) The "dragon's war on the saints" occurs during the TTHT after being thrown down to Earth: (Rev. 12:13-14, 17)

    C) The TTHT and "1,260 days" are the same: (Rev. 12:6, 14)

    D) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with resurrection: (Dan. 12:1-2, 6-7) + (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)

    E) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with judgment: (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-12)* + (Rev. 11:15, 18) + (Dan. 7:21, 25-27)

    F) The "thousand years" concludes with resurrection and judgment: (Rev. 20:7, 10, 12, 15)

    G) The "thousand years" concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 20:7)

    H) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 11:3, 7)

    My personal inferences based on the above notes:

    The TTHT/1260 days/"thousand years" are all identical. They describe a single time period from different perspectives as opposed to multiple time periods each with one perspective. They also end with the 7th Trumpet (see Rev. 11), which coincides with the Second Coming as mentioned by Paul's "last trumpet" in 1 Corinthians 15. The thousand years must end - rather than begin - with the return of Christ and our receiving the inheritance.
    I disagree with some of your conclusions, nevertheless I appreciate a good set of logic expressed well, and so well done for that.

    I agree on one final 3.5 year period, and agree with most of your overlaps. TTHT and 1260 days being the same period.

    The specific place where you are making errors is Rev 11. The beast does not arise from the bottomless pit at the end of 1260 days, the mention of the bottomless pit at that stage is to define which beast, not to determine the timing of it's rise. The beast arises from the bottomless pit a lot earlier than that. The 1260 days ends with the second coming, and so we cannot have the beast arising then, because the beast has already been persecuting the saints for 42 months at that stage. So your view of the beast arising at the end of the 1260 days contradicts other scripture which show that the beast has significant activity for a significant period after arising from the bottomless pit.

    The second error you make with Rev 11 is equating the beast with the dragon. They are two separate entities with two separate roles in Revelation. The dragon is Satan who is THROWN DOWN at the beginning of the TTHT according to Rev 12. Yet the beast rises from the pit. The beast representing a final empire and/or the antichrist. Sure the dragon gives the beast power, but the one is thrown down to earth and the other rises up from the pit.

    Another error you make is with judgments. There are multiple judgments. The destruction of Jerusalem was a major judgment. At the second coming there will be at least THREE MAJOR judgments.
    1) All the armies of the world will be gathered to Israel for a great slaughter judgment described multiple times in the bible , especially Joel 3 the Jehosaphat judgment.
    2) All the nations will be judged, some found worthy to be blessed and some destroyed. There are multiple scriptures that describes which nations enter into a time of blessing and which nations will become empty wastelands
    3) The unsaved will be left behind, found unworthy of the resurrection of the righteous.

    All three of these judgments have multiple scriptural support yet not one of them is a judgment of deeds in a throne room as described in Revelation 20.

    So you are accurately focussed on a 3.5 year period, TTHT. 1260 days. This 3.5 year period starts with Satan THROWN out of heaven (Rev 12). And ends with Satan thrown into a bottomless pit for 1000 years (Rev 20). The beast comes out the pit earlier. He is thrown into the LAKE OF FIRE at the second coming as described in Rev 19. At the end of the 1000 ears that beast is still in the lake of fire and only then does Satan (the dragon) join the beast in the lake of fire, according to Rev 20. Your current view as expressed in the opening post therefore has to deal with a number of contradictions.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    1,243
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    G) The "thousand years" concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 20:7)
    You seem to be making the Beast and the Dragon the SAME ENTITY. This is easily disproven as they are always spoken of as SEPARATE ENTITIES.


    Rev 16:13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet


    H) The TTHT/1,260 concludes with the release from the bottomless pit: (Rev. 11:3, 7)
    The beast does not ascend from the bottomless pit at the end of the 1260 days but rather at the beginning. We know this because the Two Witnesses prophesy for 1260 days during SAME TIME PERIOD in which the city of Jerusalem is given to the Gentiles for FORTY TWO MONTHS.


    Rev 11:2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. 3 "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.




    Yet Revelation 13 tells us that the Beast is given authority to rule for FORTY TWO MONTHS and will persecute the saints. Notice, that the Beast is seen rising out of the sea (the Old Testament allusion to the Abyss).

    Rev 13:1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. ...5 There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. ...7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.


    Therefore, since the TWO WITNESSES are not killed until the end of the 42 months, it also demands that the beast came out of the Abyss BEFORE the the 42 months and not after it. If you make his ascension AFTER the 42 months, then you consequently contradict scripture and eliminate the Beast's rule over the earth during the FORTY TWO MONTHS.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    6,059
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Interesting Connections

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Very insightful observations. Your 7th Trumpet and resurrection in Revelation 11 is a key to unlocking the book IMHO. So, do you identify the 2 witnesses as the Church?
    I think they represent the church or they are a personification of "truth", such as in "a fact being established by the testimony of two witnesses." I'm not sure exactly which but it's definitely used as symbolism for something related to the gospel message to the world. At the end they are killed or silenced when the beast rises from the pit - then everyone marvels when they are raised from the dead and ascend to meet God "in the air" (IMO), followed by judgment of the beast and the dead. I take this to mean the opportunity closes as the beast goes out to deceive the world but they realize the witnesses were right all along when they are resurrected.

    What I know for sure is that the 7th Trumpet is the same last trumpet Paul mentions and the two witnesses are representative of something related to the dragon's war on the saints (i.e.: "clothed in sackcloth", mentions of self-defense) since both persist for the TTHT/1260. I'm sort of using this as a baseline for matching other events to a timeline since the book is very clearly not chronological.

    • The "two witnesses" vision must end with the judgment of the dead (see: E).
    • Therefore, the devil and/or beast must rise from the pit at some point prior to the witnesses being killed and the 7th Trumpet.
    • This puts the timeframe for the 1260/TTHT conclusions not prior to the thousand years whether or not they are identical.
    Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone.
    The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
    And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Ph 4

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 7th Trumpet & GWT Connections
    By Aviyah in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: Feb 7th 2015, 11:12 PM
  2. Please Help Maintaining connections....
    By Amos_with_goats in forum Christian Fellowship
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Dec 20th 2014, 07:39 AM
  3. International Prayer Connections
    By Jude in forum Prayer
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Oct 11th 2014, 01:43 AM
  4. Interesting news. Not Earth Shattering, But Interesting.
    By Diggindeeper in forum Breaking News
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Sep 9th 2011, 02:56 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •