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Thread: No sinless perfection

  1. #1
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    No sinless perfection

    Well... I had to do some studying on this. I fight with myself a lot and I found this to be helpful.

    I'll share it with you all.


    Our struggle with temptation and sin is proof of our salvation
    A when we are saved, a battle begins between our saved soul and our unsaved body - Romans 7:18-25
    1 as long as any person has flesh, that flesh will be serving sin
    2 it will always be warring against the spiritual mind
    3 only when we are delivered from "this body of death," will we be delivered from sin completely
    B the absence of struggle between body and soul means that the body has won and the soul is given over to sinfulness
    1 the flesh does not become justified, it will be gotten rid of
    2 if the struggle between body and soul ends, it can only mean that the flesh has won
    C those who think they have attained "sinless perfection" are the most unfortunate of us all
    1 not only do they remain sinners, contrary to their claim; but because they refuse to admit their sinfulness, they cannot receive the grace of Christ which can help them do better
    2 the believer’s purity is in Christ
    3 the saint is not sinless, but they sin less
    D only a hypocrite would profess to be perfect in the flesh
    1 the greatest believers in the Bible never boasted of being perfect in the flesh - Phil 3:12-14
    2 the man who claims any perfection except that perfection which we have in Christ, is a hypocrite
    3 he is not sinless in the flesh, and simply lies if he says that he is
    4 he is exactly like the Pharisees of old, who thought that they were sinless in the flesh also
    5 this doctrine will make an infidel out of a man, because anyone with a little common sense realizes that he cannot be perfect in the flesh
    6 we do not have to be a hypocrite or an infidel; if we will just study our Bible and believe it


    I understand better how we can fight with ourselves and that appears to be normal. So I will continue my fight to win the battle.
    Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matt 5:6

    Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:29

    Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God. Rom 13:2

    Fear not that which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him
    which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt 10:28

  2. #2
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    Re: No sinless perfection

    Amen! Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Re: No sinless perfection

    Amen and amen. When I bought into the sinless perfection doctrine a year and a half or so back, I ended up almost having a nervous breakdown. I became so self righteous and burnt myself out in striving in the flesh to do something that could only be done by the Holy Spirit. With this being said, we CAN and should overcome most temptation by the grace of the LORD by the Holy Spirit and are expected to be over-comers. In other words, just because one doesn't subscribe to the sinless perfection doctrine, doesn't mean we have a license to sin nor does it mean we should be careless in the obedience department. It's just a realization that even on our best day, we most likely commit even sins of omission or through ignorance sin in a capacity we weren't even aware of. Sure, willful transgression is blatant, but even those sins done by omission or in ignorance are far from sinless or perfection.

    Remember there are ditches on either side of this debate. On one side, hyper-grace, which is equally as hypocritical and to be avoided at all cost. On the other side, the delusion that we can attain sinless perfection prior to being saved to sin no more (once we die and are translated and our bodies renewed etc).

    The topic gets pretty deep and lines get blurred because we are seated with Christ, we are dead (even now) and our lives hidden in Him. This is the eternal perspective. In that sense, we are arguably sinless and perfect. However, to be honest, we are still here in the flesh at the same time, fighting the good fight, running to finish the race, etc.
    So Send I You By Grace Made Strong

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    Re: No sinless perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by SeekFirstTheKingdom View Post
    Amen and amen. When I bought into the sinless perfection doctrine a year and a half or so back, I ended up almost having a nervous breakdown. I became so self righteous and burnt myself out in striving in the flesh to do something that could only be done by the Holy Spirit. With this being said, we CAN and should overcome most temptation by the grace of the LORD by the Holy Spirit and are expected to be over-comers. In other words, just because one doesn't subscribe to the sinless perfection doctrine, doesn't mean we have a license to sin nor does it mean we should be careless in the obedience department. It's just a realization that even on our best day, we most likely commit even sins of omission or through ignorance sin in a capacity we weren't even aware of. Sure, willful transgression is blatant, but even those sins done by omission or in ignorance are far from sinless or perfection.

    Remember there are ditches on either side of this debate. On one side, hyper-grace, which is equally as hypocritical and to be avoided at all cost. On the other side, the delusion that we can attain sinless perfection prior to being saved to sin no more (once we die and are translated and our bodies renewed etc).

    The topic gets pretty deep and lines get blurred because we are seated with Christ, we are dead (even now) and our lives hidden in Him. This is the eternal perspective. In that sense, we are arguably sinless and perfect. However, to be honest, we are still here in the flesh at the same time, fighting the good fight, running to finish the race, etc.
    Amen! Good post! Unfortunately, there are those (even on BibleForums) who believe in the false doctrine of absolute, sinless perfection, 100% of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    Actually it does, if you compare Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) to Romans 8:23-25, and compare that to Galatians 4:5-7. Even my body has been redeemed through my adoption into the family of God.

    I believe that Galatians 2:20 is the key to entire sanctification (living 100% perfect 100% of the time), which is a biblical doctrine (see Hebrews 10:10,14-17, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Titus 2:14, 1 John 3:5-9, and many others). If I consistently let Jesus live in me and through me, the life that He lives in me and through me will be perfect, because He is perfect. This is abiding in Christ (1 John 3:6). If I am the one who is doing the living, then I will be sinning left and right. In understanding these things I am not self-righteous; but am letting Christ's righteousness be my standard. I am not righteous in myself, but Him living His life in me and through me is my practical righteousness (and His blood applied to my life is my imputed righteousness; which does not only impute but imparts righteousness to me: see Romans 5:19 and Matthew 5:6 and Hebrews 10:29, 13:12).
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Re: No sinless perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Amen! Good post! Unfortunately, there are those (even on BibleForums) who believe in the false doctrine of absolute, sinless perfection, 100% of the time.
    Oh I know, but it's just a matter of time before every single one of those people fall (as the righteous fall even 7 times, etc) and are convicted by the Holy Spirit that they are in error. The LORD was very graceful in the way He showed me that one specific to this topic. So, for those still on that rung of the ladder so to speak, whenever in discussion with them I just plant a seed that the LORD can use later when they fall, which they do. It's insane to be to fathom the sinless perfection thing now (the way some argue it), but at one point for a few months I was that guy arguing it so I understand.

    People need to consider that every idle word, every split second of meditation on a fiery dart not taken captive to the obedience of Christ quick enough, every thing (even good thing) done with the wrong motivation, sin, sin sin sin sin. There's just no way that the people claiming to be sinless, are even close.
    So Send I You By Grace Made Strong

  6. #6

    Re: No sinless perfection

    On the one hand, we have Galatians 3:22.

    But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    On the other hand, we have Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:8, and 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24.

    For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    He that committteth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.


    Concerning that last scripture: it ought to be clear from an understanding of Romans 4:20-23 that we would be justified before the Lord by virtue of not staggering at the promise of God through unbelief concerning the promise that is given to us in 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, and by being fully persuaded that what He has promised, He is able to perform.

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    Re: No sinless perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    On the one hand, we have Galatians 3:22.

    But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    Amen! Romans 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

    On the other hand, we have Hebrews 10:14

    For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
    This involves a perfect standing before God in the righteousness of Christ, not our own righteousness (Philippians 3:8-9). Sanctified means to "make holy," to be set apart for God. There is an initial (positional) sanctification, in which we are made holy in standing before God, and also a progressive sanctification, in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified (past tense) in Christ Jesus.. 1 Thessalonians 4:3,4 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor. So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness.

    1 John 3:8,

    He that committteth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - "He that keeps on doing sin" (the habit of sin). In 1 John 3:6, he points out - Whosoever sinneth (o amartanwn). Present (linear) active articular participle like menwn above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as amarthsa, aorist active participle, would mean).

    1 Thessalonians 5:23-24.

    And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.


    Concerning that last scripture: it ought to be clear from an understanding of Romans 4:20-23 that we would be justified before the Lord by virtue of not staggering at the promise of God through unbelief concerning the promise that is given to us in 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, and by being fully persuaded that what He has promised, He is able to perform.
    The Amplified Bible reads - 1 Thessalonians 5:23 - Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you through and through [that is, separate you from profane and vulgar things, make you pure and whole and undamaged—consecrated to Him—set apart for His purpose]; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete and [be found] blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful and absolutely trustworthy is He who is calling you [to Himself for your salvation], and He will do it [He will fulfill His call by making you holy, guarding you, watching over you, and protecting you as His own]. *These Thessalonians need not worry about being preserved blameless at the coming of the Lord. God is faithful and He will make it happen. In Psalm 37:28, we read - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

    None of these passages of Scripture imply that we are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time. See (1 John 1:8-2:1).
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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    Re: No sinless perfection

    Who do you believe the person in this scripture is fighting?

    1 Cor 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
    26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
    27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

    1 Tim 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

    2 Tim 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
    7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
    8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
    Last edited by Protective Angel; May 10th 2017 at 11:28 PM.
    Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matt 5:6

    Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:29

    Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God. Rom 13:2

    Fear not that which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him
    which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt 10:28

  9. #9

    Re: No sinless perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Amen! Romans 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

    This involves a perfect standing before God in the righteousness of Christ, not our own righteousness (Philippians 3:8-9). Sanctified means to "make holy," to be set apart for God. There is an initial (positional) sanctification, in which we are made holy in standing before God, and also a progressive sanctification, in which the reality of that holiness becomes more and more evident in our actions, words, thoughts, attitudes, and motives. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified (past tense) in Christ Jesus.. 1 Thessalonians 4:3,4 - For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain (present tense) from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor. So becoming washed, sanctified and justified in Christ is a one time event, yet abstaining from sexual immorality is not a one time event. Here is how I see it. The believer possess a positional, judicial standing of righteousness in Christ and, second, a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness.

    As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - "He that keeps on doing sin" (the habit of sin). In 1 John 3:6, he points out - Whosoever sinneth (o amartanwn). Present (linear) active articular participle like menwn above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as amarthsa, aorist active participle, would mean).

    The Amplified Bible reads - 1 Thessalonians 5:23 - Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you through and through [that is, separate you from profane and vulgar things, make you pure and whole and undamaged—consecrated to Him—set apart for His purpose]; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept complete and [be found] blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful and absolutely trustworthy is He who is calling you [to Himself for your salvation], and He will do it [He will fulfill His call by making you holy, guarding you, watching over you, and protecting you as His own]. *These Thessalonians need not worry about being preserved blameless at the coming of the Lord. God is faithful and He will make it happen. In Psalm 37:28, we read - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

    None of these passages of Scripture imply that we are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time. See (1 John 1:8-2:1).
    I'm in agreement with most of what you've said...but I would still say what I always say about this doctrine that to commit sin in 1 John 3:5-9 is not referring to a singular event: And that is, that a singular event of sinning has the capacity to bring the one who has been set free back into slavery to the sin that once held them...that is, a very harsh attitude towards the sins we have been redeemed from must be taken, so that if our right hand causes us to sin we would cut it off, ot if our right eye causes us to sin we would pluck it out...and of course I'm using hyperbole in this just like Jesus was using hyperbole when He said it the first time. He was saying to take extreme action against sin; and to treat it as something that can kill you spiritually. It's better to enter into life with one hand than with two hands to be cast into everlasting fire...cut off from your person the very inclination to sin if you possibly can...see Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11 and Ephesians 3:20.

    The Bible does indeed teach that a man can be completely set free from the power of sin so that from the moment of repentance he will never sin again.

    Certain false teachers would bring in teachings that color the word of God so that when you read it you read it according to the teachiing they gave you...but if you read the word of God as it is, and let it speak to you off the page, it declares to us all plainy that God requires repentance and that true repentance means turning away completely from what you know is sin in your life today, so that by the power of the Holy Ghost you will never commit those sins again! See Acts 1:8...And you will receive power when the Holy Ghost is come upon you...what excuse do you have for falling back into sin when you have all the power that you need to be able to defeat it in your life?

  10. #10
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    Re: No sinless perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Amen! Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).
    I would go a step further and say it would actually be a perpetual violation of the 9th commandment. Denying the truth found in Romans 7 will put the individual square into the shoes of the Romans 2 man.

    Rom 7:15**For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
    Rom 7:16**Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good.
    Rom 7:17**So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
    Let's look at what Paul is exhibiting here. There is an internal conflict that is unique to spirit indwelt believers. He is analyzing himself in totality and seeing areas where he is coming up short. He makes a distinction between what he wants to do and what he is actually doing, attributing that as sin.

    Rom 7:18**For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
    Rom 7:19**For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.
    Rom 7:20**Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
    What we need to do is run this back. To make a comparison. We know that Romans 1 speaks of Gentiles and Romans 2 speaks of Jews.

    Rom 1:24**Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
    Rom 1:25**because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
    Rom 1:26**For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
    Rom 1:27**and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
    Rom 1:28**And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
    Rom 1:29**They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
    Rom 1:30**slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
    Rom 1:31**foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
    Rom 1:32**Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
    I wanted to keep the context. Paul in Romans 7 surely had sins in mind when he wrote it. Things that plagued him in that moment and we see him struggle with that. In contrast the Romans 1 man revels in sin. They know deep down there is a God but they continue in sin. There is no struggle here but in verse 32 there is an encouragement to others to engage in the same practices. This is easier for us to understand because we see it every day in our lives. Unbelievers doubling down on sin, hanging on to it like a cherished posession. Enabling others to partake in their rotten fruit because misery loves company.

    Paul isn't doing that in 7. Paul is struggling where not believers aren't. Let's continue on

    Rom 2:17**But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God
    Rom 2:18**and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law;
    Rom 2:19**and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
    Rom 2:20**an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth—
    Rom 2:21**you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal?
    Rom 2:22**You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
    Rom 2:23**You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law.
    Rom 2:24**For, as it is written, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
    The first thing we need to look for here is that same struggle. Where is it? If we think to all the moments in scripture of when we saw the pharisees we saw men that were very righteous in their own eyes. They had no grasp of their own sinfulness because they were focused on external actions because they were tied to a system of works. Luke 11:37 and on is a good example. Even when Christ called them out directly there was no repentance. They, like the gentiles, double down on their sin. Sin which they attempt to mask by their engineered piety.

    This is what makes Paul different in Romans 7. This is how we can read 1 John and easily and handily make sense of an almost apparent contradiction.

    1Jn 1:8**If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    1Jn 1:9**If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    1Jn 1:10**If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    Paul is lock step walking according to this. Seeing a sinfulness and looking to Jesus Christ.

    Rom 7:24**Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
    Rom 7:25**Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
    This is something that Gentile and Jew don't do. They don't acknowledge sin, they don't look to Christ, they continue on unaffected. Struggling with sin is a hallmark and testimony that someone is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. They learn from the word daily and the more they read the more they understand they have fallen short. When one is first saved we might come to the law like the rich young ruler sayng "All of these I have kept from my youth" but when we see how deep and dynamic the law is then we hopelessly cling to Christ.

    I am convinced that sinless perfectionism is bred from ignorance. If the person really knew what God's law requires they would see their own inadvertent transgressions all over the place.

    The typical response I get to this is that we are okaying sin somehow. As if it's a license to sin. Romans 6 crushes such a response.

    Rom 6:1**What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
    Rom 6:2**By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

    Living in it and be rightly juxtaposed with "walking in darkness" which is a perpetual state. It's intentional. It's a life style. The person is identified with that.

    1Jn 1:6**If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
    Sinless Perfectionism is ultimately presumptuous. We should strive after mortifying our own sin, we should strive after personal piety but have the grace, as Paul did, to acknowledge our own sins and struggles truthfully.

    Christ Our Advocate
    1Jn 2:1**My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
    1Jn 2:2**He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
    When John is talking "little children" he is affectionately referring to the believers who would have been the recipients of this message. Should they sin they can immediately turn to Christ Jesus as He is our High Priest

    Heb 4:14**Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
    Heb 4:15**For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
    Heb 4:16**Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
    Quote Originally Posted by Job 34:19
    God is not partial to princes and does not favor the rich over the poor, for they are all the work of His hands.

  11. #11

    Re: No sinless perfection

    stoomart, I think you misunderstood what I said. There is a doctrine that says that in 1 John 3:5-9 it is speaking of the practice of sin when it says that, for example, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    They say that to commit sin is not a singular event but that in order to truly commit sin, you have to do it over and over again as a lifestyle choice. I believe that anything truly sinful is addictive and that therefore if you sin one time you have entered into a lifestyle choice. That to commit sin means to commit it even one time; and therefore if you have been set free and then go back to the old ways by comitting that old sin even one time, it may even result in spiritual death that one time. You are no longer free because the pleasure of that sin has taken over. You drank of the waters of this world and will thirst again for the same types of waters. If you commit sin (once) you have become a servant of sin.

    People want to disagree with this, I believe because they want to justifiy sinning by saying each time that it is "just this one time, so it isn't practicing it."

    At least, that is the danger that I see in the doctrine that I hold in question.

  12. #12

    Re: No sinless perfection

    I am also convinced that a rejection of the doctrine of entire sanctification is bred from ignorance. People do not know the scriptures neiither the power of God: they take the word of false teachers and allow them to color their understanding of the plain meaining of certain texts which clearly teach that sin is to be avoided and can be avoided.

  13. #13
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    Re: No sinless perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    I am also convinced that a rejection of the doctrine of entire sanctification is bred from ignorance. People do not know the scriptures neiither the power of God: they take the word of false teachers and allow them to color their understanding of the plain meaining of certain texts which clearly teach that sin is to be avoided and can be avoided.
    This may hold up for many, but not myself personally. I am not ignorant of the scriptures and what they say, nor the power of God. I don't reject sinless-perfection doctrine based on the leading of any human teacher.
    So Send I You By Grace Made Strong

  14. #14

    Re: No sinless perfection

    And yet in another thread, you seemed to think that the concept found in Ephesians 5:26-27 isn't in the Bible.

  15. #15
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    Re: No sinless perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    And yet in another thread, you seemed to think that the concept found in Ephesians 5:26-27 isn't in the Bible.
    Brother, your pride may be causing you to accuse me of not knowing of the scriptures/verses/concept that you referred to which I most certainly do. My point was that you claim that you are the means of coming to the Father without spot or blemish, where I am suggesting that Jesus is the one who presents the church without spot or blemish before the Father. Just going to give you a warning in love that your tone is coming across as very arrogant, inconsiderate and disrespectful.
    So Send I You By Grace Made Strong

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