Page 1 of 16 123456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 234

Thread: 2 Thess. 2:11

  1. #1

    2 Thess. 2:11

    Could someone explain how this scripture affects our salvation during the tribulation? When I've also read that millions will be saved during the tribulation. Will the Holy Spirit be with those that accept Him at this time?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    55
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    2 Thess. 2:11, God sends a strong delusion to those who don't love the truth. Sounds like the hardening of Pharaoh's heart. The false Christ will make peace for Israel (1 Thess. 5:3) and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem then declare himself to be God (2 thess. 2:4) . See Daniel 9:27. Revelation 14:6-7 says an angel will declare the gospel in the tribulation. Many believers think the Holy Spirit will not be on earth during the tribulation because the Spirit is removed at the pretrib rapture. These are unanswered questions. The "thief in the night" verse last appears in Revelation 16:15.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,693

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch987 View Post
    2 Thess. 2:11, God sends a strong delusion to those who don't love the truth. Sounds like the hardening of Pharaoh's heart.
    Excellent analogy!! I agree. Even after 10 plagues that destroyed Egypt, Pharaoh still pursued Israel until God wiped them all out. So too will it be at the end. At the end of the bowls of wrath, Gog will lead his army against Israel and get wiped out. Armageddon.

    Many believers think the Holy Spirit will not be on earth during the tribulation because the Spirit is removed at the pretrib rapture. These are unanswered questions.
    Genesis 6:3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

    Most people think the "he" is this verse is about Adam, the 120 years. However, Jesus called the Holy Spirit "He." Could this verse give us the expiration date of the Holy Spirit? 120 Jubilees?

    Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember now your Creator in the days of your youth, Before the difficult days come, And the years draw near when you say, “I have no pleasure in them”:
    2 While the sun and the light, The moon and the stars, Are not darkened...
    5 When the almond tree blossoms...For man goes to his eternal home,
    And the mourners go about the streets.
    6 Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed,...
    7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
    And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

    Further, why is the seal of God given to angels in Revelation 7? Isn't it the Holy Spirit's job to seal the elect? Perhaps He has been taken out of the way at that point.

  4. #4

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Is this verse telling us that God will protect us from the strong delusion that 2 Thess 2:11 is speaking about?
    Revelations 3:10 because thou hast kept thy word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    2,415
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by Gussy View Post
    Could someone explain how this scripture affects our salvation during the tribulation? When I've also read that millions will be saved during the tribulation. Will the Holy Spirit be with those that accept Him at this time?
    Those who continue to reject Christ will be susceptible to believe the lies of the antichrist and will be damned for it. That's what the passage is about. 2 Thess 2:11 was discussed extensively a couple of years ago, I can send you the link if you like.

    Indeed many will come to faith during the GT. and the Holy Spirit is with us forever. John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for eve

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    2,415
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Excellent analogy!! I agree. Even after 10 plagues that destroyed Egypt, Pharaoh still pursued Israel until God wiped them all out. So too will it be at the end. At the end of the bowls of wrath, Gog will lead his army against Israel and get wiped out. Armageddon.



    Genesis 6:3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

    Most people think the "he" is this verse is about Adam, the 120 years. However, Jesus called the Holy Spirit "He." Could this verse give us the expiration date of the Holy Spirit? 120 Jubilees?

    Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember now your Creator in the days of your youth, Before the difficult days come, And the years draw near when you say, “I have no pleasure in them”:
    2 While the sun and the light, The moon and the stars, Are not darkened...
    5 When the almond tree blossoms...For man goes to his eternal home,
    And the mourners go about the streets.
    6 Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed,...
    7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
    And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

    Further, why is the seal of God given to angels in Revelation 7? Isn't it the Holy Spirit's job to seal the elect? Perhaps He has been taken out of the way at that point.
    Jesus assured the disciples that the Comforter (Holy Spirit) who will come will remain with us forever.

    John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

    Any doctrine that the HS will be removed during the tribulation is false teaching.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,693

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Jesus assured the disciples that the Comforter (Holy Spirit) who will come will remain with us forever.

    John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

    Any doctrine that the HS will be removed during the tribulation is false teaching.
    You missed the point by not understanding prophecy. The HS does abide with us forever AND He will be taken out of the earth. Both are true. There happens to be a time when all with oil in their lamps/HS will be taken away to the wedding. The rapture is that point, exactly as stated in Ecc 12. Have you ever wondered why angels are given the seal of God in Rev 7? Isn't that the HS's job?

    Micah 5:3 Therefore He shall give them up,
    Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth;
    Then the remnant of His brethren
    Shall return to the children of Israel.

    She who is in labor gives birth in Rev 12. In the interim period between Rev 7-12, they are given up. Ever wonder why the foolish virgins do not succeed in acquiring oil for their lamps? There is none to be had once the clock strikes midnight.

    Genesis 6:3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    16,041

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    You missed the point by not understanding prophecy. The HS does abide with us forever AND He will be taken out of the earth. Both are true. There happens to be a time when all with oil in their lamps/HS will be taken away to the wedding. The rapture is that point, exactly as stated in Ecc 12. Have you ever wondered why angels are given the seal of God in Rev 7? Isn't that the HS's job?

    Micah 5:3 Therefore He shall give them up,
    Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth;
    Then the remnant of His brethren
    Shall return to the children of Israel.

    She who is in labor gives birth in Rev 12. In the interim period between Rev 7-12, they are given up. Ever wonder why the foolish virgins do not succeed in acquiring oil for their lamps? There is none to be had once the clock strikes midnight.

    Genesis 6:3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever


    Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


    Maybe one reason why the beast overcomes these saints is because the Holy Spirit would no longer be in the earth, thus He would not be in these saints as well? I guess I never realized there was such a concept as godly saints who don't even have the Holy Spirit within nor access to Him. Because if they instead do, kind of contradicts your conclusions that the Holy Spirit leaves the planet entirely, don't you think?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    In His Service
    Posts
    1,720

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Does the mark of the beast come before or after the "great tribulation"?


    Jude
    Matthew24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    16,041

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Does the mark of the beast come before or after the "great tribulation"?


    Jude
    I say neither. It comes 'during' the great tribulation, which is neither before nor after.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,693

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


    Maybe one reason why the beast overcomes these saints is because the Holy Spirit would no longer be in the earth, thus He would not be in these saints as well? I guess I never realized there was such a concept as godly saints who don't even have the Holy Spirit within nor access to Him. Because if they instead do, kind of contradicts your conclusions that the Holy Spirit leaves the planet entirely, don't you think?
    Being post-trib and not understanding the three watches confuses the whole book of Revelation. Do you realize the beast in Rev 13 comes AFTER the elect are gathered in Rev 12? The period without the Holy Spirit is from Rev 7-12 when the seal of God is given to angels.

    Rev 7:2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God.

    At this time, the 144k are sealed. Also, the innumerable multitude is before the throne of God. The rapture has just taken place, obviously. The wrath is announced in the 6th seal and we are not subjected to God's wrath. Then....

    Micah 5:3 Therefore He shall give them up,
    Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth;
    Then the remnant of His brethren
    Shall return to the children of Israel.

    The woman gives birth in Rev 12. This is when the remnant of Israel is gathered by Jesus at the 7th trumpet. AFTER all this, the beast has his 1260 days. This is exactly how Revelation, Daniel 12:1, and Isaiah 16:1-4 are laid out. The beast is not the AC. Search the Hebrew word translated "scapegoat" in Lev 16 and then read the book of Enoch and you will know exactly who the beast is. The beast that was, is not, yet will ascend out of the abyss. The beast is then captured at Armageddon, the third watch.

    The period between the 6th seal rapture and the gathering of the elect in the 7th trumpet is the period without the Holy Spirit. That is why angels have God's seal. Angels rule over the churches. Yes, the 7 churches in Revelation do not yet exist. That is why the Spirit is leaving behind 7 letters addressed to angels, not pastors! Churches will spring up like grass when the most visible event of all time takes place, the rapture. They will have angels to support them, but no HS.

    Once the woman has given birth in the 7th trumpet, then the remnant of His brethren shall return to the children of Israel. Then...

    Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God....

    If you can except these things, you will know the time period in which the AC can rise. Rev 7-12 is when the restrainer is taken away. This destroys post-trib, but it is what the Bible says.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    2,415
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    You missed the point by not understanding prophecy. The HS does abide with us forever AND He will be taken out of the earth. Both are true. There happens to be a time when all with oil in their lamps/HS will be taken away to the wedding. The rapture is that point, exactly as stated in Ecc 12. Have you ever wondered why angels are given the seal of God in Rev 7? Isn't that the HS's job?

    Micah 5:3 Therefore He shall give them up,
    Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth;
    Then the remnant of His brethren
    Shall return to the children of Israel.

    She who is in labor gives birth in Rev 12. In the interim period between Rev 7-12, they are given up. Ever wonder why the foolish virgins do not succeed in acquiring oil for their lamps? There is none to be had once the clock strikes midnight.

    Genesis 6:3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever
    In my study so far, am yet to see Jesus lie. So you may believe he lied or made a mistake in John 14:16 *that the Comforter will remain with us forever*, I don't. The saints that have been martyred over the ages, (since the 1st advent) all had access to the Holy. We are told that Stephen was filled with the Holy Ghost, but he was stoned to death regardless.

    I believe you are the one missing the point of the prophecy.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    2,415
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Being post-trib and not understanding the three watches confuses the whole book of Revelation. Do you realize the beast in Rev 13 comes AFTER the elect are gathered in Rev 12? The period without the Holy Spirit is from Rev 7-12 when the seal of God is given to angels.

    Rev 7:2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God.

    At this time, the 144k are sealed. Also, the innumerable multitude is before the throne of God. The rapture has just taken place, obviously. The wrath is announced in the 6th seal and we are not subjected to God's wrath. Then....

    Micah 5:3 Therefore He shall give them up,
    Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth;
    Then the remnant of His brethren
    Shall return to the children of Israel.

    The woman gives birth in Rev 12. This is when the remnant of Israel is gathered by Jesus at the 7th trumpet. AFTER all this, the beast has his 1260 days. This is exactly how Revelation, Daniel 12:1, and Isaiah 16:1-4 are laid out. The beast is not the AC. Search the Hebrew word translated "scapegoat" in Lev 16 and then read the book of Enoch and you will know exactly who the beast is. The beast that was, is not, yet will ascend out of the abyss. The beast is then captured at Armageddon, the third watch.

    The period between the 6th seal rapture and the gathering of the elect in the 7th trumpet is the period without the Holy Spirit. That is why angels have God's seal. Angels rule over the churches. Yes, the 7 churches in Revelation do not yet exist. That is why the Spirit is leaving behind 7 letters addressed to angels, not pastors! Churches will spring up like grass when the most visible event of all time takes place, the rapture. They will have angels to support them, but no HS.

    Once the woman has given birth in the 7th trumpet, then the remnant of His brethren shall return to the children of Israel. Then...

    Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God....

    If you can except these things, you will know the time period in which the AC can rise. Rev 7-12 is when the restrainer is taken away. This destroys post-trib, but it is what the Bible says.
    Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

    Nothing in the above tells me that the HS is removed from the earth. And I don't know how you reached the conclusion that since an angel is asked to seal the 144,000 it automatically means the HS is out of the way? You just might be on to something about the beast - only you didn't tell us who he is since he's not the AC?

    This is the first time I've heard that the seven churches addressed in Revelation instead of being defunct are rather to come in the future?

    Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

    Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    Col 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

    How can you read Rev 2 and 3 and claim the churches are in the distant future? You ventured more into conjecture than actual scriptural facts so I'll cut my response short.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,693

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

    Nothing in the above tells me that the HS is removed from the earth. And I don't know how you reached the conclusion that since an angel is asked to seal the 144,000 it automatically means the HS is out of the way?
    The Rev 7 seal of God being given to the angels is not the whole story. It merely confirms what is written several times in scripture. Gen 6:3, Ecc 12:7, Mal 5:3, etc.

    Gen 6:3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever

    John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

    We have an apparent contradiction. Once we realize who the audience for each statement is, it will will make sense. The HS abides forever in only one group of people. Those who believe in Jesus. There will be many Jews left behind at the rapture, while all Christians go. Therefore, both statements are true. The HS abides forever in Christians. When Christians leave this earth, so does the HS. That is why we read about so many horrible and evil things in end time prophecy. Worshiping wood and stone, mass raping, selling children, discarding children, and all sorts of abominations. Just read Ezekiel 8 when the image of jealousy, the AoD, gets set up in the Temple and all the abominable things that take place there, in the Temple itself. 70 elders worshiping the sun, woman crying for Tammuz, etc. There is really only one thing that can cause things to go south so quickly. The HS is gone. "Therefore He will give them up."

    You just might be on to something about the beast - only you didn't tell us who he is since he's not the AC?
    Azazel is the name of the Beast. Enoch explains the whole story of this fallen angel. The "whole crime" of leading men astray is ascribed to him, and him alone. Enoch 10. Lev 16 just confirms it.

    This is an advanced subject. (I don't mean that in derogatory terms.) The Day of Atonement is critical to understand. There are two goats. Two. One innocent goat is sacrificed. This is Jesus. All those who put their trust in Him by faith are atoned for by Jesus' sacrifice. The other goat is literally called Azazel in the Hebrew. Scapegoat in English. This is the one whom the high priest lays his hand on to transfer all the sins of Israel. ISREAL, not believers in Jesus. After the highly visible rapture, salvation by faith is no longer really possible. Jesus has been revealed to all. Therefore all their sin is going to be placed on the head of Azazel on Tishri 10.

    Zechariah 3:9 For behold, the stone That I have laid before Joshua: Upon the stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave its inscription,’ Says the Lord of hosts, ‘And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

    Now, it is Jesus Himself that lays the sin of Israel on the head of Azazel. Jesus is the High Priest! Is this starting to make sense? One of the beast's seven heads is mortally wounded. Then it is healed. This isn't symbolic, it is literal. This head of Azazel is the one Jesus strikes to lay the sin of the land upon him. Further....

    Hababkkuk 3:12 You marched through the land in indignation;
    You trampled the nations in anger. [Wrath]
    13 You went forth for the salvation of Your people,
    For salvation with Your Anointed. [Messiah]
    You struck the head from the house of the wicked,
    By laying bare from foundation to neck.

    Azazel receives his deadly wound to one of his heads from Jesus Himself. This occurs when Jesus comes to gather the elect. Olivet discourse, Dan 12:1, Isaiah 16:1-4, etc. THEN the beast is driven out of Israel for 1260 days. Most people realize Jesus returns at the 7th trumpet, but everything about the beast is written after. Because his 1260 days come AFTER Jesus has returned. Revelation confirms this, but most do not see it. It is written in order for a reason. There is much more to this story and scripture to back it up. The AC comes before Jesus returns. The beast rules after. Ever wonder why they have to "flee" through the valley in the Mount of Olives? Why angels are sent out to gather them so quickly? Why they are protected by a wall of fire in Zech 1-2? Jesus return is not the end yet. Thus cutting the days short for the sake of the elect. Otherwise no flesh would be saved.

    This is the first time I've heard that the seven churches addressed in Revelation instead of being defunct are rather to come in the future?

    Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

    Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    Col 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

    How can you read Rev 2 and 3 and claim the churches are in the distant future? You ventured more into conjecture than actual scriptural facts so I'll cut my response short.
    I understand. However, I ask you to investigate the facts. If the letters were written to the church at large, why were they addressed to individual churches? Read them carefully and ask yourself how much of them could possibly apply to ancient churches? The book of Revelation was given by the Father to Jesus to share with John. Did God give people a bunch of false hope 2000 years ago? Here are a couple of example...

    Rev 2:22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.

    Did the people in 95 AD live long enough to see the GT?

    Rev 2:13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

    The location of Satan's throne was irrelevant in 95 AD. It is totally important in the last days.

    Rev 2:24 “Now to you I say, and[h] to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come.

    False hope in 95 AD. Critical for the post rapture churches to hear.

    Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief

    All the 7 ancient churches have been gone so long there is barely any record of them. How then is it possible for Jesus to say He will come upon them as a thief? Did Jesus not know they would be long gone by then? Of course He knew. These letters are not for the ancient churches. Just like much prophecy in the OT didn't apply to those ancient people either. "The testimony of Jesus in the Spirit of prophecy."

    Rev 3:9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

    If this was about 95 AD, the only way for this to be possible is for the wicked to be resurrected with the righteous. Is that how you understand the resurrections? I don't think so. If this is written for those who endure the final few years, it makes total sense.

    Rev 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

    The ancient church was LONG gone by the time the "hour of trial" comes upon the whole earth. This makes no sense for that ancient church. It makes total sense for the post rapture churches who are waiting for Jesus in the second watch.

    Finally, why is the Spirit writing letters addressed to Angels? If this information was to remain in the spiritual, why did God give it to John? At the rapture, the angels come with Jesus. Some for punishment and some with God's seal to do the work of the departed HS.

  15. #15

    Re: 2 Thess. 2:11

    Quote Originally Posted by Gussy View Post
    Could someone explain how this scripture affects our salvation during the tribulation? When I've also read that millions will be saved during the tribulation. Will the Holy Spirit be with those that accept Him at this time?
    2 Thes 2.11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

    This Scripture has little to do with Christian salvation during the Tribulation/Reign of Antichrist. It has to do with those who are not saved, who do not *want* to be saved. They don't want to have anything to do with Christ or with Christian salvation. They are therefore given a delusion to believe in a theory for their life, or a religion, philosophy as such. But it is purely a delusion.

    The reason they reject the truth is because they take pleasure in the lie that evil is good, that idolatry is to be preferred, because in a false religion they can make up their own rules and live as they please. They can commit immorality as they please, and they can murder if they please. They are not content to submit to the Divine Spirit, who alone is pure, righteous, and just. They refuse to submit to anything other than themselves, or to a false god that lets them do what their flesh craves.

    The idea that millions are saved in the Tribulation period is a misnomer, in my view. It comes from the various visions of Revelation that represent a multitude of the saved. It is a misnomer to believe that this multitude all get saved in the Tribulation period. Rather, I think they are those who have gotten saved throughout the NT and OT periods.

    The idea often goes along with it that the 144,000 Israelites are the evangelists who bring in this great harvest. This comes out of the Pretribulation Rapture camp, who believe that the Gentile Christians are all gone by the time of the Great Tribulation. And so, it is thought, only 144,000 Jews are left to convert to Christ and win the great harvest--all within the span of less than 7 years!

    These people don't seem to realize that a Pretrib Rapture is not even taught in the Scriptures. Nor do they realize that it is impossible for there to be 12,000 from every Israeli tribe any longer, since Israeli tribes have ceased to exist thousands of years ago.

    I do think that the 144,000 represent a true remnant of Israel who are to inherit the entire land of Israel, encompassing the ancient territories of all 12 tribes. But to think they get converted, mature as Christians, and then have time to win a great harvest from other nations is ludicrous. Even if some got converted this way, they would only have time to accept Christ. There would be no time for this harvest to grow up into mature Christians.

    No, the harvest at the end of the age is the resurrection of all believers since the beginning of time and including the entire Christian era. And the 144,000 represent only a single nation among the many promised to Abraham.

    The Tribulation period, if anything, will be less successful in evangelism, because "night comes when no man can work." Right now there is great evangelism going on in the world. But when the Tribulation comes I think evangelism will be crushed by the force of the Beast, who will not tolerate it. In some places it will undoubtedly go on, because I don't think the Beast will have an empire that encompasses any more than 10 nations. But there will be followers of Antichrist in all nations who will persecute and hinder Christian evangelism.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Discussion Who is the Restrainer in 2 Thess 2?
    By Jesuslovesus in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: May 8th 2017, 04:35 AM
  2. 1 Thess 1:4-5
    By Eyelog in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: Apr 11th 2015, 05:20 AM
  3. Bespreking Die wegraping in 2 Thess 2
    By Henry44 in forum Gesprek oor die Eindtye en Aktuele sake
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: Sep 8th 2012, 08:28 AM
  4. 2 Thess 2
    By Beckrl in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: Jan 28th 2010, 11:31 PM
  5. Discussion 2 Thess 2:6-7
    By Beckrl in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Jun 28th 2009, 10:47 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •