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Thread: My position on food laws.

  1. #91

    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    But why do we observe , or not observe food laws ? Is for the sake of keeping the law that we obtain some sort of better standing in front of God ? Of course not.

    Read further into 1 Cor. ch. 9. The reason Paul observed , or didn't observe a particular food law that was already nullified wasn't to obtain any sort of favor with God through the keeping of the law itself. The crux is found in 1 Cor. ch. 9 vs.19 - 23. To the Jews , he becomes a Jew. To those under the law, He becomes as those under the law.

    WHY ?

    To win the more.

    Why did he become weak ? To win the weak. He became all things to all men so as to save SOME !!!!

    MAN THAT CRANKS MY TRACTOR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    jbf...don't miss this point. The context of Paul's keeping of the law, or not.......... was not about the law at all. It was about the Gospel.
    I may not have said it well enough because of all the questions that have been asked of me, and in my attempt to hold to a strict interpretation of Matthew 5:19...but my motivations for obeying the food laws is indeed for the sake of the gospel. If someone Jewish gets saved because of my more recent posts, I will have done my job. Therefore it won't matter to me that what I have said didn't win any Gentiles. If I want to win some Gentiles, perhaps I will stress more the side of the coin that tells us we are not under the law. But Jews are law-oriented and I happen to believe that there is a good possibility someone Jewish will stumble across this website and see everything that has transpired here. And if what I have written in defense of the law, while also showing the reality of Acts 13:39 to a certain extent, has the effect of winning a Jewish person to Christ, I will be a happy man when I get to heaven...seeing that person's face and knowing that he is actually there because of the work I did on earth...what greater joy could there be when I get there?

  2. #92
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    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    If someone Jewish gets saved because of my more recent posts, I will have done my job
    And if the opposite happens, do you also take responsibility?

  3. #93
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    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    I may not have said it well enough because of all the questions that have been asked of me, and in my attempt to hold to a strict interpretation of Matthew 5:19...but my motivations for obeying the food laws is indeed for the sake of the gospel. If someone Jewish gets saved because of my more recent posts, I will have done my job. Therefore it won't matter to me that what I have said didn't win any Gentiles. If I want to win some Gentiles, perhaps I will stress more the side of the coin that tells us we are not under the law. But Jews are law-oriented and I happen to believe that there is a good possibility someone Jewish will stumble across this website and see everything that has transpired here. And if what I have written in defense of the law, while also showing the reality of Acts 13:39 to a certain extent, has the effect of winning a Jewish person to Christ, I will be a happy man when I get to heaven...seeing that person's face and knowing that he is actually there because of the work I did on earth...what greater joy could there be when I get there?
    Pretending to eat kosher will have little effect on a Jew practicing his/her faith when you are violating the 4th commandment by posting on Shabbat. Because Orthodox Jews hold the Oral Torah to the same level of holiness as the Law of Moses, and judging from your posts you don't even know what the Oral Law means to those who practice Judaism.

    And so will you take responsibility when you present them with this false gospel? Paul (and real actual Jews that I personally know) were/are equipped to minister to Jews via their Written and Oral Torah because they lived it, breathed it, understood it and Judaism is not only an individual walk, it is a communal walk. There is NO WAY you can pretend to practice Judaism and be taken seriously.

    You sir, have no clue of how to live into the Law of Moses.

    It's more likely an Orthodox Jew would be insulted because you do not know how to walk out the Law of Moses, nor you do not know how Jews apply the Law of Moses to their lives. I am serious about this. You need to test this - go to a local synagogue and meet some real Jews practicing real Judaism and learn something instead of using hypotheticals to justify your legalism.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  4. #94

    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    And if the opposite happens, do you also take responsibility?
    What, if someone who is Jewish and saved falls away? Personally, I don't think that that is even possible...John 10:27-30, 6:47, 5:24, Hebrews 6:16-20.

  5. #95

    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Pretending to eat kosher will have little effect on a Jew practicing his/her faith when you are violating the 4th commandment by posting on Shabbat. Because Orthodox Jews hold the Oral Torah to the same level of holiness as the Law of Moses, and judging from your posts you don't even know what the Oral Law means to those who practice Judaism.

    And so will you take responsibility when you present them with this false gospel? Paul (and real actual Jews that I personally know) were/are equipped to minister to Jews via their Written and Oral Torah because they lived it, breathed it, understood it and Judaism is not only an individual walk, it is a communal walk. There is NO WAY you can pretend to practice Judaism and be taken seriously.

    You sir, have no clue of how to live into the Law of Moses.

    It's more likely an Orthodox Jew would be insulted because you do not know how to walk out the Law of Moses, nor you do not know how Jews apply the Law of Moses to their lives. I am serious about this. You need to test this - go to a local synagogue and meet some real Jews practicing real Judaism and learn something instead of using hypotheticals to justify your legalism.
    2 Corinthians 3:14-16 and Matthew 12:11-12.

    Those steeped in Judaism would have no concept of what the Torah really means until the vail is taken away.

    Also, according to Jesus it is not a violation of the 4th commandment to do well on the sabbath days.

  6. #96

    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athanasius View Post
    And if the opposite happens, do you also take responsibility?
    Yes, I take responsibility...and I find comfort in the scriptures because I did not take my talent and wrap it up in a napkin and hide it in the ground for fear of doing the wrong thing.

  7. #97
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    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    2 Corinthians 3:14-16 and Matthew 12:11-12.

    Those steeped in Judaism would have no concept of what the Torah really means until the vail is taken away.
    Yet you say it's sin to eat a ham sandwich.....the point is that you will NEVER win over a Jew by playing Jew. You look ridiculous and profane to them. And rightly so.
    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    Also, according to Jesus it is not a violation of the 4th commandment to do well on the sabbath days.
    You spoke outside of your own context! The context was witnessing to an unbelieving Jew, now you've changed the context.

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    Yes, I take responsibility...and I find comfort in the scriptures because I did not take my talent and wrap it up in a napkin and hide it in the ground for fear of doing the wrong thing.
    The talent you are trying to multiply is made of wood, stubble and hay. Nothing can not gain anything for the Kingdom if it is false.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  8. #98

    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    ..but my motivations for obeying the food laws is indeed for the sake of the gospel.
    Assuming that that is true, the Gospel actually sets the sinner free from all the dietary laws. So by you obeying the food laws, you are teaching others to go into bondage. Please note carefully what the Gospel says regarding the eating of all meats (Mark 7:14-20; 1 Tim 4:1-5):

    14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
    15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
    16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
    17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
    18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
    19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
    20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.


    1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
    2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
    3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
    4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
    5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


    When Paul says "every creature of God is good" he means exactly what he says -- good for food. All creatures may be consumed for food (though we may not choose to consume all creatures). The dietary laws of the Torah have great value and anyone is free to follow them PROVIDED they teach others that God has removed all dietary restrictions from His people.

  9. #99
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    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    What, if someone who is Jewish and saved falls away? Personally, I don't think that that is even possible...John 10:27-30, 6:47, 5:24, Hebrews 6:16-20.
    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    Yes, I take responsibility...and I find comfort in the scriptures because I did not take my talent and wrap it up in a napkin and hide it in the ground for fear of doing the wrong thing.
    And so, you take responsibility when someone is saved, as well?

  10. #100

    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    Assuming that that is true, the Gospel actually sets the sinner free from all the dietary laws. So by you obeying the food laws, you are teaching others to go into bondage. Please note carefully what the Gospel says regarding the eating of all meats (Mark 7:14-20; 1 Tim 4:1-5):

    14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
    15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
    16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
    17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
    18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
    19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
    20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.


    1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
    2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
    3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
    4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
    5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


    When Paul says "every creature of God is good" he means exactly what he says -- good for food. All creatures may be consumed for food (though we may not choose to consume all creatures). The dietary laws of the Torah have great value and anyone is free to follow them PROVIDED they teach others that God has removed all dietary restrictions from His people.
    Romans 14:14-15, 20-21, 15:1, 1 Corinthians 8:13...

    I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not with thy meat for whom Christ died.

    For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. it is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

    We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

    Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.



    I have given no comandment to abstain from meats. It is a fine line, but to command to abstain from meats is different from saying that the food laws are still valid as part of God's law; while believers are not under the law (in short).

  11. #101
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    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post


    [/U]I have given no comandment to abstain from meats. It is a fine line, but to command to abstain from meats is different from saying that the food laws are still valid as part of God's law; while believers are not under the law (in short).
    You have no authority to command anything, furthermore you do not keep the food laws in the Torah, that much we have established.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  12. #102
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    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by justbyfaith View Post
    I may not have said it well enough because of all the questions that have been asked of me, and in my attempt to hold to a strict interpretation of Matthew 5:19...but my motivations for obeying the food laws is indeed for the sake of the gospel. If someone Jewish gets saved because of my more recent posts, I will have done my job. Therefore it won't matter to me that what I have said didn't win any Gentiles. If I want to win some Gentiles, perhaps I will stress more the side of the coin that tells us we are not under the law. But Jews are law-oriented and I happen to believe that there is a good possibility someone Jewish will stumble across this website and see everything that has transpired here. And if what I have written in defense of the law, while also showing the reality of Acts 13:39 to a certain extent, has the effect of winning a Jewish person to Christ, I will be a happy man when I get to heaven...seeing that person's face and knowing that he is actually there because of the work I did on earth...what greater joy could there be when I get there?
    In your heart you may desire that people are saved through these actions, but I fear this isn't your motivation. From your own words you have clearly taken the stand that you observe the law to obtain a deeper relationship with God than if you didn't observe the law.

    In fact , this is all you have been talking about. Also, how it is that your ministry is to enlighten people on keeping the law to obtain this deeper holiness.

    The scripture is clear that we are all things to all people. You do understand that at some point ( like maybe right now ?) you may be required to let go of following the law for your brothers sake, right ?

    You are putting a yoke on yourself and other's that you can't bear. Let it go.

    I can tell you right now that 99% of the people in this world are just looking for hope. We know that the Gospel is the only hope they have. Let's focus on that instead of legalistic food laws.

  13. #103
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    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    One glaring issue. Moses gave the Law of Moses to Israel. Ritual cleanliness was a requirement for presentation of the people of the Nation of Israel to enter the physical Mishkan. That is why gentiles could not enter - they were ritually unclean unless they converted to Judaism and followed the Law of Moses.

    By practicing the ritual cleanliness laws handed down to Israel for the purpose of temple worship, you are declaring that your cleanliness before the throne of God in heaven is contingent on your own outward ritual cleanliness; that the cleansing act of God through Jesus is insufficient. This is a serious matter brother that I honestly do not believe you have reconciled in your relationship to Jesus. Believe me, I know because I once too believed this and practiced this. And I will tell you from the depth of my soul that the fruit of practicing this does not edify the body of Christ. It divides the body of Christ. This is taught again and again in the New Testament writings, and taught very strongly in Galatians.

    As to the stronger brother proposition, you present yourself as a stronger brother by asserting your own spiritual maturity, therefore your legalism is a detriment to your weaker brothers, a stumbling block to their sanctification, and a yoke on their backs.
    Key words..."given to ISRAEL". The dietary laws were given to Israel under the OLD COVENANT, which was a provisionary and preparatory covenant to instruct and preserve the nation of Israel until Messiah came. The Old Covenant fulfilled it's purpose (two fold) of preserving Israel until Christ came, and bringing it's pupils to Christ. When one is IN CHRIST, he or she no longer needs shadows, but has come to know the substance.

    God never commanded New Covenant Christians to keep the dietary restrictions of the Old Covenant.
    1 John 1:7- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    "My heart was once hard and dark. Then God turned on the Light and the Water."

  14. #104
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    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    Key words..."given to ISRAEL". The dietary laws were given to Israel under the OLD COVENANT, which was a provisionary and preparatory covenant to instruct and preserve the nation of Israel until Messiah came. The Old Covenant fulfilled it's purpose (two fold) of preserving Israel until Christ came, and bringing it's pupils to Christ. When one is IN CHRIST, he or she no longer needs shadows, but has come to know the substance.

    God never commanded New Covenant Christians to keep the dietary restrictions of the Old Covenant.
    I do not believe justbyfaith has ever addressed the many, many posts by many many people regarding what you have stated above.
    Peace to you!

    “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
    (Matthew 5:5)


  15. #105

    Re: My position on food laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
    I do not believe justbyfaith has ever addressed the many, many posts by many many people regarding what you have stated above.
    Matthew 5:19, Romans 8:7.

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