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Thread: Jacobs trouble

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    Jacobs trouble

    Why is it called the time of jacobs trouble? Who is Jacob?

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    Jacob is Israel.

    Son Of Issac.

    Son of Abraham.

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Gussy View Post
    Why is it called the time of jacobs trouble? Who is Jacob?
    Jacob is Israel.

    Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    Daniel was told above that angel Michael will stand up for the children of thy people, ie, the children of Jacob/Israel. And what happens thereafter? A time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation.

    IOW, the prophesied trouble will be unprecedented. Even though the GT will be worldwide, but from the perspective of Daniel as well as Jews in the age the prophecy was received, they believed it was exclusively intended for them. Remember they weren't aware of God's plans to integrate the Gentiles into the family of God?

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Gussy View Post
    Why is it called the time of jacobs trouble? Who is Jacob?
    Jacob and Israel are both applied to either Jacob, the son of Isaac, or to the twelve tribes descended from Jacob. The context will determine as to which of those names is appropriate.

    Some time in the near (or not too distant) future, Israel and the Jews worldwide will face a time of unprecedented tribulation, since Satan, the Antichrist and all the nations surrounding Israel will be gathered against the Jews. The culmination of this time will be the battle of Armageddon, and only Christ Himself will be able to deliver Israel from its enemies. At the same time a believing remnant of Jews will be preserved by God in the wilderness.

  5. #5

    Re: Jacobs trouble

    So they believed that they (Jacobs people) were going to go through this time of trouble and this is why it is called time of jacobs trouble?

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    Some time in the near (or not too distant) future, Israel and the Jews worldwide will face a time of unprecedented tribulation, since Satan, the Antichrist and all the nations surrounding Israel will be gathered against the Jews. The culmination of this time will be the battle of Armageddon, and only Christ Himself will be able to deliver Israel from its enemies. At the same time a believing remnant of Jews will be preserved by God in the wilderness.
    This is not correct, as since Jesus came and offered salvation to all who would accept it, John 3:16, and the Jewish people rejected Him, there is no special redemption of any ethnic people. Ephesians 2:11-18 and many other scriptures prove this.
    The idea of the Jews facing tribulation, while the 'Church' goes to heaven, is a seriously wrong teaching, that contradicts what God does tell us He as planned for His people in these last days.

    The titles of Jacob, Israel and the Sons of the Living God, all now apply to every true, born again believer, His Overcomers - what Israelite actually means. Gal 6:16

    Jacobs Trouble, Jeremiah 30:4-7, refers to the Sixth Seal; the terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath. The great world changer, soon to happen that will clear the entire Middle East, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 1, + and allow all the holy people of God to go and live in all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-31, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26...in the very place....
    That is our Promise, our great privilege and our destiny.

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    Read Jeremiah30:7's verse about Jacob's trouble, in the context given in the chapters of Jeremiah 28-33, and you will easily see it's proper context.

    Too many armchair experts like to take that one verse out of it's proper context, and misapply it to a time completely unfounded in the writings of Jeremiah.

    Be your own Berean, and study Jeremiah chapters 28-33 to see where they venue it and why.

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Read Jeremiah30:7's verse about Jacob's trouble, in the context given in the chapters of Jeremiah 38-33, and you will easily see it's proper context.

    Too many armchair experts like to take that one verse out of it's proper context, and misapply it to a time completely unfounded in the writings of Jeremiah.

    Be your own Berean, and study Jeremiah chapters 28-33 to see where they venue it and why.
    Sure, Jeremiah did prophesy about his time and his 70 years of Jewish captivity came to pass.
    But Jeremiah 31:1-40 has not yet been fulfilled. Jesus brought the New Covenant, we Christians are the partakers of it and it will be fully implemented with those people who have escaped the Sword and found favour in the wilderness. As Ezekiel 20:34-38 says.

    You should never allow false teaching about the current inhabitants of the State of Israel and the true Israel of God, to confuse your thinking about these prophesies.

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Sure, Jeremiah did prophesy about his time and his 70 years of Jewish captivity came to pass.
    But Jeremiah 31:1-40 has not yet been fulfilled. Jesus brought the New Covenant, we Christians are the partakers of it and it will be fully implemented with those people who have escaped the Sword and found favour in the wilderness. As Ezekiel 20:34-38 says.

    You should never allow false teaching about the current inhabitants of the State of Israel and the true Israel of God, to confuse your thinking about these prophesies.
    Jeremiah 30:11 *For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.


    Does this part.... and will not leave thee altogether unpunished....sound like something that is applicable to the NT church? I don't think so. Too many folks wrongly applying contexts in the OT to the NT church when it couldn't possibly apply to the NT church which now includes Gentilles.

    Should we really read the above verse like such?

    For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, NT CHURCH, yet will I not make a full end of thee, NT CHURCH: but I will correct thee, NT CHURCH, in measure, and will not leave thee, NT CHURCH, altogether unpunished.


    And what about this verse in that same chapter?

    Jeremiah 30:3 *For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.



    Should this really be understood like this instead?

    For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people, THE NT CHURCH, saith the LORD: and I will cause them, THE NT CHURCH, to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.


    The NT church as we now know it wasn't even in existence at the time God gave this land to the fathers in question here. Were any of these fathers God gave this land to Gentiles? They would have to be, the fact the text says their fathers, and that if this is meaning the NT church as we now know it which clearly includes Gentiles.

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Jeremiah 30:11 *For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.


    Does this part.... and will not leave thee altogether unpunished....sound like something that is applicable to the NT church? I don't think so. Too many folks wrongly applying contexts in the OT to the NT church when it couldn't possibly apply to the NT church which now includes Gentilles.

    Should we really read the above verse like such?

    For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, NT CHURCH, yet will I not make a full end of thee, NT CHURCH: but I will correct thee, NT CHURCH, in measure, and will not leave thee, NT CHURCH, altogether unpunished.


    And what about this verse in that same chapter?

    Jeremiah 30:3 *For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.



    Should this really be understood like this instead?

    For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people, THE NT CHURCH, saith the LORD: and I will cause them, THE NT CHURCH, to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.


    The NT church as we now know it wasn't even in existence at the time God gave this land to the fathers in question here. Were any of these fathers God gave this land to Gentiles? They would have to be, the fact the text says their fathers, and that if this is meaning the NT church as we now know it which clearly includes Gentiles.
    Keraz is entrenched in his own views and never willing to consider any other interpretation that contradicts him.

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Read Jeremiah30:7's verse about Jacob's trouble, in the context given in the chapters of Jeremiah 28-33, and you will easily see it's proper context.
    .
    Before you might insist one should do that, perhaps you need to revisit a few things in Jeremiah 30 which appear to make your interpretation unlikely because your interpretation would be meaning a time before the first advent happens, let alone the 2nd advent.

    Jeremiah 30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
    10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
    11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.


    As to this...and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them....for sure didn't happen during a time after king David but before the first advent. Assuming whom David the king is meaning in this context, some take it to mean literally David while others take it to be meaning Christ. Either way this can't be fulfilled until there has been the first advent, which we know there has been, and if meaning literally David, it can't be fulfilled until there has been the 2nd advent since I'm pretty sure David hasn't been raised from the dead yet. this alone tells us this prophecy was never fulfilled during a time preceding the first advent.

    As to this... though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee...I'm guessing a full end to these nations in question, this is yet to be fulfilled.

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    divaD has made some pertinent points. Context is always key, but the wider context is not to change what is stated WITHIN the verses. Rather they are there to help us see what is being spoken about.

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    Re: Jacobs trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Jeremiah 30:11 *For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

    The NT church as we now know it wasn't even in existence at the time God gave this land to the fathers in question here. Were any of these fathers God gave this land to Gentiles? They would have to be, the fact the text says their fathers, and that if this is meaning the NT church as we now know it which clearly includes Gentiles.
    As these prophesies are for a future time and were made before the Advent of Jesus, then yes; they do now apply to Christian believers. Those who are now deemed to be the sons of Abraham by faith. Isn't Romans 9:8 clear enough for you? Also Isaiah 51:1-2 ?

    Get this: we Christians are the Israelites of God, His Overcomers, His sons by virtue of belief in God and our acceptance of the One He sent.
    It is only the fantasy of a rapture to heaven, where 'Israel', the ethnic people remain on earth while the 'Church' all who belong to an established Christian organization, are whisked outta here, that drives you to ignore this truth.
    No, that un-Biblical notion of a 'rapture' will not happen. John 3:13

    The Lord is about to correct His Creation, that has fallen, once again into: as in the days of Noah.
    Soon to happen will be the terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, a Day of extreme disasters that will come upon everybody the whole world over. Luke 21:34-35 and Revelation 6:15 includes every person.
    This will set the scene for a One World Govt, but we Christians will be motivated to emigrate to the holy Land. Psalm 107 tells the story. Isaiah 35:11-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Jeremiah 31 and many others describe the great gathering and settling of all the Lord's people into His holy Land. A people who will bear the proper fruit, Matthew 21:43, living in peace and prosperity, Ezekiel 38:8 &12, blessed and protected by God.

    Isn't that a beautiful outcome? Won't that be amazing? It is what the Prophetic Word says will happen and I look forward to it.

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