Page 1 of 31 123456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 451

Thread: Fundamental or Spirit filled(moved from GIC)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    221

    Fundamental or Spirit filled(moved from GIC)

    Hi,

    I am new here and not sure where to post this question. It's kind of a long story, but I will shorten it for your sake.

    My family has always gone to a fundamental church, it's my background, but recently I have been going to a "Spirit filled" church - I think this is what you would call this type of church, a friend invited me so I started going. It's a church that acknowledges and recognizes the gifts, such as divine healing, they speak in tongues (not in the service), but some members do this privately. Worship is more livelier with more emotions involved or they said it was the Holy Spirit moving compared to my regular church.

    My question - is one better than the other? I can see pros and cons with both, for instance, my regular church is more reserved, I didn't notice it before but they talk about God and Jesus more than the Holy Spirit, but the other church talks about the Holy Spirit more. Another pro/con, my friend's church is more laid back with certain things, like drinking, women can be pastors, maybe a lot more laid back then the people at my church about things. There are things that happened at my friend's church (I didn't see it, my friend told me), that just don't happen at mine. My friend's dad told me fundamentals have too many rules, never thought about it before, but maybe they do.

    It's confusing, I like my church because I know everyone and it's comfortable, but I like my friend's because it's livelier even though I am not sure of everything or if I believe all they teach. I have prayed about this a lot and the only word that comes to my mind is "balance", but I am not sure exactly what that means in light of these two choices.

    So, do you all think one is better over the other? Not to start an argument about this, I just want to know if you all think God prefers one over the other.

    Thanks.

  2. #2

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    I can see pros and cons with both, for instance, my regular church is more reserved, I didn't notice it before but they talk about God and Jesus more than the Holy Spirit, but the other church talks about the Holy Spirit more.
    Hi David, and Welcome.

    We need to determine our beliefs and practices on what Scripture says, not what people do or don't do. You say that "the other church talks about the Holy Spirit more". But does the New Testament say that the Holy Spirit wants us to put our focus on the Lord Jesus Christ or not? Well here is what Jesus said regarding the role of the Holy Spirit:Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.(John 16:13,14)

    So according to Christ, the Holy Spirit is with us to glorify Christ, not Himself. So you have your answer right there. And as you will note throughout the New Testament, the Gospel is all about Christ and His finished work on the cross.

    Furthermore, the so-called "Spirit-filled" churches focus on tongues and healing, whereas there are at least twenty spiritual gifts which are equally (if not more) important. Also, if this church claims that the primary evidence of being filled with the Spirit is speaking in tongues, then that in itself is a serious doctrinal issue.


    Another pro/con, my friend's church is more laid back with certain things, like drinking, women can be pastors, maybe a lot more laid back then the people at my church about things.
    This should be a red flag for any Christian. So the best thing you can do for your friend is to have him spend some time in serious Bible-study with yourself and someone in your church who can help you both to be clear about what is Scriptural and what is not. A lot of outward emotion and noise is not necessarily equal to excellent worship.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    6,629

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    Hi,

    I am new here and not sure where to post this question. It's kind of a long story, but I will shorten it for your sake.

    My family has always gone to a fundamental church, it's my background, but recently I have been going to a "Spirit filled" church - I think this is what you would call this type of church, a friend invited me so I started going. It's a church that acknowledges and recognizes the gifts, such as divine healing, they speak in tongues (not in the service), but some members do this privately. Worship is more livelier with more emotions involved or they said it was the Holy Spirit moving compared to my regular church.

    My question - is one better than the other? I can see pros and cons with both, for instance, my regular church is more reserved, I didn't notice it before but they talk about God and Jesus more than the Holy Spirit, but the other church talks about the Holy Spirit more. Another pro/con, my friend's church is more laid back with certain things, like drinking, women can be pastors, maybe a lot more laid back then the people at my church about things. There are things that happened at my friend's church (I didn't see it, my friend told me), that just don't happen at mine. My friend's dad told me fundamentals have too many rules, never thought about it before, but maybe they do.

    It's confusing, I like my church because I know everyone and it's comfortable, but I like my friend's because it's livelier even though I am not sure of everything or if I believe all they teach. I have prayed about this a lot and the only word that comes to my mind is "balance", but I am not sure exactly what that means in light of these two choices.

    So, do you all think one is better over the other? Not to start an argument about this, I just want to know if you all think God prefers one over the other.

    Thanks.
    Hi David. You will get a lot of anti-gifts sentiment here, but a Spirit filled church is the one you should continue with, as long as they are teaching the Word of God. And yes, the gift of tongues is for TODAY. I don't know if the one you are visiting is the right one for you, but I recommend that you look for a church that worships God, teaches the Word and believes in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit.

  4. #4

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    Hi David. You will get a lot of anti-gifts sentiment here, but a Spirit filled church is the one you should continue with, as long as they are teaching the Word of God. And yes, the gift of tongues is for TODAY. I don't know if the one you are visiting is the right one for you, but I recommend that you look for a church that worships God, teaches the Word and believes in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit.
    There is a lot more to spiritual gifts than tongues and healing. So unless there is a proper balance regarding spiritual gifts, the church is not really helping its members. What does the apostle Paul say about tongues?

    Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
    (1 Cor 14:19). That is 5 vs 10,000. No contest.

    What Paul was rebuking in the Corinthian church was this unhealthy focus on tongues which is prevalent in many churches today.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    6,629

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    There is a lot more to spiritual gifts than tongues and healing. So unless there is a proper balance regarding spiritual gifts, the church is not really helping its members. What does the apostle Paul say about tongues?

    Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
    (1 Cor 14:19). That is 5 vs 10,000. No contest.

    What Paul was rebuking in the Corinthian church was this unhealthy focus on tongues which is prevalent in many churches today.
    What does Paul say about tongues? He said, "I speak with tongues more than you all" (v 18).

    The only reason it's emphasized is because people such as yourself do not believe that it is valid for today. Thus, you make the claim of it being over emphasized. There's no public tongues in my church unless it is interpreted, and never more than three as Paul said. So, scripturally point out the error of my ways.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    221

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    Hi David, and Welcome.

    We need to determine our beliefs and practices on what Scripture says, not what people do or don't do. You say that "the other church talks about the Holy Spirit more". But does the New Testament say that the Holy Spirit wants us to put our focus on the Lord Jesus Christ or not? Well here is what Jesus said regarding the role of the Holy Spirit:Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.(John 16:13,14)

    So according to Christ, the Holy Spirit is with us to glorify Christ, not Himself. So you have your answer right there. And as you will note throughout the New Testament, the Gospel is all about Christ and His finished work on the cross..

    The pastor talks about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and Spirit filled worship, things like that. It's not a lingo used at my church, they also discuss Jesus. My point was they talk more about the Spirit then my church does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    Furthermore, the so-called "Spirit-filled" churches focus on tongues and healing, whereas there are at least twenty spiritual gifts which are equally (if not more) important. Also, if this church claims that the primary evidence of being filled with the Spirit is speaking in tongues, then that in itself is a serious doctrinal issue.
    You do make a good point, they might discuss the other gifts at some point. The pastor has discussed gifts in general and using these to edify the church. Why do you think some churches might only focus on those two gifts?

    It's an entirely different topic but the Bible does state we should also have 5 other positions in order to bring the church to maturity. I've wondered about the lack of this in my church - in Ephesians 4:11, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    This should be a red flag for any Christian. So the best thing you can do for your friend is to have him spend some time in serious Bible-study with yourself and someone in your church who can help you both to be clear about what is Scriptural and what is not. A lot of outward emotion and noise is not necessarily equal to excellent worship.
    I called it worship because it's what everyone calls the singing portion of church, however - I was taught worship includes all of our lives, in all we do, so what would you consider to be "excellent worship"?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    221

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    Hi David. You will get a lot of anti-gifts sentiment here, but a Spirit filled church is the one you should continue with, as long as they are teaching the Word of God. And yes, the gift of tongues is for TODAY. I don't know if the one you are visiting is the right one for you, but I recommend that you look for a church that worships God, teaches the Word and believes in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit.
    TBH, speaking in tongues is very confusing to me, I grew up learning it was speaking in a language, for instance at Pentecost the disciples spoke in a language that people understood, I took it that God gave them the ability to speak the language of the cultures, so that everyone heard the message in their own language.

    On the other hand, the other verses about speaking in tongues, I can't explain.

    Thank you for your advise. Would you attend one where they outwardly speak in tongues, for instance, a bunch of people - all at the same time? I think Paul wrote to Timothy about this and it was not an organized approach to assemblies. If Paul wrote to Timothy about it, and obviously it was allowed in churches back then, it would seem it should be allowed today, with an interpreter.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    221

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    What does Paul say about tongues? He said, "I speak with tongues more than you all" (v 18).

    The only reason it's emphasized is because people such as yourself do not believe that it is valid for today. Thus, you make the claim of it being over emphasized. There's no public tongues in my church unless it is interpreted, and never more than three as Paul said. So, scripturally point out the error of my ways.
    I inquired about this in my other post to you, you answered it here.

    What would your pastor do if someone spoke in tongues and there was not an interpreter? How does that work? I have never witnessed this before.
    Thanks.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    6,629

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    TBH, speaking in tongues is very confusing to me, I grew up learning it was speaking in a language, for instance at Pentecost the disciples spoke in a language that people understood, I took it that God gave them the ability to speak the language of the cultures, so that everyone heard the message in their own language.

    On the other hand, the other verses about speaking in tongues, I can't explain.

    Thank you for your advise. Would you attend one where they outwardly speak in tongues, for instance, a bunch of people - all at the same time? I think Paul wrote to Timothy about this and it was not an organized approach to assemblies. If Paul wrote to Timothy about it, and obviously it was allowed in churches back then, it would seem it should be allowed today, with an interpreter.
    I would say don't make tongues a focal point. It's good that they believe in it and encourage the practice of it in personal devotion - because it's Biblical. But is there something there in your heart that is different? Do you feel the presence of God stronger? If so, perhaps request a meeting with one of the pastors and ask your questions.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    221

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    I would say don't make tongues a focal point. It's good that they believe in it and encourage the practice of it in personal devotion - because it's Biblical. But is there something there in your heart that is different? Do you feel the presence of God stronger? If so, perhaps request a meeting with one of the pastors and ask your questions.
    Maybe I do, like I said the experience seems more alive.

    That's a good idea to ask the pastors about it. Thanks.

  11. #11

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    What does Paul say about tongues? He said, "I speak with tongues more than you all" (v 18).
    But he did not stop there. That is why I quoted the next verse. 5 vs 10,000 is no contest. What Paul was really saying when he said "I speak with tongues more than you all" is (to parpaphrase) -- "Christians, you all are being so childish, trying to compete with each other regarding speaking in tongues. Well, guess what. I speak in tongues MORE THAN YOU ALL but I would rather speak FIVE intelligible words of teaching than 10,000 words in a foreign language which has to be interpreted."

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    6,629

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    But he did not stop there. That is why I quoted the next verse. 5 vs 10,000 is no contest. What Paul was really saying when he said "I speak with tongues more than you all" is (to parpaphrase) -- "Christians, you all are being so childish, trying to compete with each other regarding speaking in tongues. Well, guess what. I speak in tongues MORE THAN YOU ALL but I would rather speak FIVE intelligible words of teaching than 10,000 words in a foreign language which has to be interpreted."
    Right. I agree with that.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    In the middle of a large dry desert.
    Posts
    3,498

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Hi David;

    Welcome to the forum, I hope your time and involvement here will be of a benefit to you and us.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    My family has always gone to a fundamental church, it's my background, but recently I have been going to a "Spirit filled" church - I think this is what you would call this type of church, a friend invited me so I started going. It's a church that acknowledges and recognizes the gifts, such as divine healing, they speak in tongues (not in the service), but some members do this privately. Worship is more livelier with more emotions involved or they said it was the Holy Spirit moving compared to my regular church.
    We used to call this type of church “Charismatic” but definitions change over the years. Spirit filled churches would be those that openly recognize and practice the gifts (including “tongues”) during service. Although I think the term “Charismatic” has now evolved into another meaning. And being Spirit filled is more than having and operating in the gifts of the Spirit. Those gifts are only one type of evidence of being Spirit filled.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    My question - is one better than the other? I can see pros and cons with both, for instance, my regular church is more reserved, I didn't notice it before but they talk about God and Jesus more than the Holy Spirit, but the other church talks about the Holy Spirit more. Another pro/con, my friend's church is more laid back with certain things, like drinking, women can be pastors, maybe a lot more laid back then the people at my church about things. There are things that happened at my friend's church (I didn't see it, my friend told me), that just don't happen at mine. My friend's dad told me fundamentals have too many rules, never thought about it before, but maybe they do.
    No, I would not say one was better than the other. Both the “Fundamental” and “Spirit Filled” categories have churches holding to the extremes of the spectrum. Yes in some fundamentals there can be rules, though rules are not necessarily bad when they are not taken to the extremes. There were rules in the early church that were accepted and even established by the original apostles.

    But there are also draw backs in those churches which are freer “Spirit filled” churches which go too far in their “freedom”. An example of this would be allowing speaking in tongues in the church service when there is no interpretation. Being freer does not means it is right. Being free can sometimes become an open door for becoming carnally permissive.

    It’s not a good thing to try to get rid of all rules for the sake of freedom.

    That being said there is good and bad in both types of churches.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    It's confusing, I like my church because I know everyone and it's comfortable, but I like my friend's because it's livelier even though I am not sure of everything or if I believe all they teach. I have prayed about this a lot and the only word that comes to my mind is "balance", but I am not sure exactly what that means in light of these two choices.
    The balance that comes to your mind may not be referring to balance in the church you go to. A truly balanced church is very difficult to find. I have been serving Christ for over 37 years and still have not found a church that is correct in all things they do or teach. Some are more so ... some are less so. Every church has problems and is not completely error free. Though we would like to believe that at least our church is.

    The balance you need is your own. You will never find the perfect church so it behooves you to have balance yourself.

    If you continue to go to your fundamental church you can still grow and develop in faith and relationship with God. The balance would be to know and understand that it is not perfect and understand those imperfections are simply part of growing up and maturing. And if that church is truly seeking God then He will continually work those imperfections out. But our part is to be patient in the process.

    If you go to the “Spirit filled” church you can still grow and develop in faith and relationship with God. The balance would be to know and understand that it is not perfect and understand those imperfections are simply part of growing up and maturing. And if that church is truly seeking God then He will continually work those imperfections out. But our part is to be patient in the process.

    So the choice is up to you and either one is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    So, do you all think one is better over the other? Not to start an argument about this, I just want to know if you all think God prefers one over the other.
    No … God does not prefer one over the other He seeks those who will worship in spirit and truth. That “in Spirit” is not referring to the gifts of the Holy Spirit but to sincerity of heart and devotion.

    But in either church there two things you can do that will help you during your time at either church with all the good and bad points. These things will put you in a position that makes the pros and cons of each church somewhat meaningless. I think if you do these things you will do well no matter which church you choose.

    First … in every church there are those who do worship in spirit and truth and regardless of which church you choose to attend you are called to do the same.

    Second is to take serious the instructions Paul gives in Philippians.

    Phil 2:3-4 “Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.”
    This is the same attitude Jesus had as describe in verses Phil 2:6-8.

    Jesus also taught this to His disciples:

    John 13:13-14 “You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you.”
    We are to serve and help each other.
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
    C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

    "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
    "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

    "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
    "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
    "Our Hope is unchanged"
    "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

  14. #14

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    Hi David, and Welcome.

    We need to determine our beliefs and practices on what Scripture says, not what people do or don't do. You say that "the other church talks about the Holy Spirit more". But does the New Testament say that the Holy Spirit wants us to put our focus on the Lord Jesus Christ or not? Well here is what Jesus said regarding the role of the Holy Spirit:Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.(John 16:13,14)

    So according to Christ, the Holy Spirit is with us to glorify Christ, not Himself. So you have your answer right there. And as you will note throughout the New Testament, the Gospel is all about Christ and His finished work on the cross.

    Furthermore, the so-called "Spirit-filled" churches focus on tongues and healing, whereas there are at least twenty spiritual gifts which are equally (if not more) important. Also, if this church claims that the primary evidence of being filled with the Spirit is speaking in tongues, then that in itself is a serious doctrinal issue.



    This should be a red flag for any Christian. So the best thing you can do for your friend is to have him spend some time in serious Bible-study with yourself and someone in your church who can help you both to be clear about what is Scriptural and what is not. A lot of outward emotion and noise is not necessarily equal to excellent worship.
    Good post.....
    No one speaks or prays in tongues today.
    Some claim this and bark like dogs,make silly rhyming noises...thinking this has something to do with the Spirit, but it i s clearly the flesh. They turn from doctrine and substitute entertainment....rock bands, light shows, and other flesh pleasing tricks.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    In the middle of a large dry desert.
    Posts
    3,498

    Re: Fundamental or Spirit filled

    *** MOD NOTE ***

    Gentlemen this is a non-debate section of the forum. The OP is not trying to discuss the legitimacy of tongues and whether they are in operation today. So please … do not address this topic. If you wish to discuss this start a thread in Bible Chat. You will be rewarded with a very stimulating discussion on the subject there.

    Bringing the subject up here in this forum brings the high probability of this discussion escalating far beyond the limits and focus of this thread and forum.

    Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in this matter.
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
    C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

    "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
    "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

    "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
    "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
    "Our Hope is unchanged"
    "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 15
    Last Post: Feb 4th 2015, 11:02 PM
  2. Replies: 62
    Last Post: Apr 28th 2014, 03:53 PM
  3. Filled with the holy spirit or something else?
    By A820djd in forum Christian Fellowship
    Replies: 180
    Last Post: Jul 18th 2009, 04:34 PM
  4. Help me to understand -- being filled with the Holy Spirit
    By *Living~By~Faith* in forum Christian Fellowship
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Jul 18th 2009, 02:48 AM
  5. New Spirit Filled Life NKJV
    By JordanW in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: May 6th 2008, 07:08 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •