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Thread: Baptizing babies.?...!

  1. #1
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    Baptizing babies.?...!

    I find my spirit agitated whenever I see a video of a baby being "baptized". That is being sprinkled with water or a water pistol filled with Holy water or some other method. Unless the baby has a good bath out of the ordeal the entire affair has been an exercise in spiritual futility. Babies are tiny little things but the error of calling their sprinkling a baptism is not tiny but large. It's only one thorn on the thornbush of dead religion.

    Mark 16:16 (NKJV)
    He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

    First you have to believe. I'd be greatly amazed should an infant believe let alone be able to express that belief.

    Supposedly mature men in the glamorous robes of their office doing what? A traditional ritual having nothing to do with salvation. They really think that it's beneficial, scriptural which completely stupefies me. They are not even aware that they themselves are unredeemed and are passing on their dead traditions to another generation.

    One of the strongest words Jesus ever spoke to me was one night as I prayed outside up in a cleared out spot on our place. I'd been praying for sometime and was about to go back to the house. As I went to leave He spoke and said so powerfully in my spirit "EVERY GENERATION I HAVE TO BEGIN ALL OVER AGAIN". It's so true. Every new batch of babies has never heard of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, sin or anything having to do with eternal life. God's work begins again and He must work through new generations of believers.

    My baptism to me was a serious affair several months after I had been visited by Jesus, saved then baptized in the Holy Spirit. This gave me time to learn more about it. My dear brother Jimmy just a few years younger, was baptized with me. It was a cold winter's day and we had to break ice an inch thick on those Arkansas River backwaters. My wife told me I had a visible glow when I came home. That's the way a baptism should be. The glow, less the icy waters of course.

    At what point did these infants make their profession of faith? Why would a rational adult be intimidated by the traditions of their denomination so that the Scriptures of the Bible are tread under foot? Once again tradition trumping the word of God. How many infants do we see being baptized in the new testament? Surely the fear of man brings a snare! Do I make too much of this practice? Which part of evil are we to ignore?

    Proverbs 29:25 (NKJV)
    The fear of man brings a snare,
    But whoever trusts in the Lord shall be safe.





    Tevye in fiddler on the roof said it with authority, "TRADITION"! That's it. He was Jewish of course but the plague of the fear of men sees no cultural or spiritual lines. Peer pressure is a powerful influence. Even deadly. The spirit gives life the letter kills.

    I realize that the men who perform such acts are not born again Christians but labor under the false beliefs of their religion. The blind sprinkling the newly arrived. God said it first;

    Isaiah 29:13 (NKJV)

    Therefore the Lord said:

    “Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths
    And honor Me with their lips,
    But have removed their hearts far from Me,
    And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,

    The ignorant and unsaved ministers of these dead denominations practice the same empty rituals on so called adults. My unsaved mother in law, now deceased, was "baptized" by her unsaved Methodist pastor by dipping a rose into Methodist holy water and spring her with it. Now, isn't that just about the sweetest thing you ever heard of? Land o' Goshen! Frighteningly, an entire building full of ignorant people sat and nodded their approval. No one was benefitted of course. My wonderful wife continued to minister to the poor ignorant woman and a change was seen in her before death. We can only hope she really met Jesus.


    After being childless for 14 long lonely years Jesus saved me, baptized me in the Holy Spirit, gave me the gift of tongues and began to speak to my wife and I regarding the son He was going to send us. We were amazed and excited. My wife's body was allergic to my seed and killed it on contact. The doctors could do nothing but Jesus could. Many afflictions awaited us before God's promise was fulfilled but certainly it was. We met much ridicule, unbelief and cold indifference but Jesus my wife and I had the last laugh. One thing He said to me was so great, "the mouths of the scoffs will be shut at the telling" and they were! On October 9th,1979 the Holy Spirit told me Martha was pregnant. The lab agreed. Nathan, our promise from God, was born on June 25,1980.



    Nathan is a spirit filled Christian, minister and student of Israel. God did good!

    As our children were born we dedicated each and every one of them to the God who sent them, Jesus is His first name. They were not sprinkled, spritzed, dunked, squirter, deluged or drizzled. They were anointed by their father - me - with oil and prayed for. Also by the elders of our church. They all came to know Jesus at an early age and after that were baptized in the good old Biblical John the Baptist method of going under then coming back up.

    After experiencing all of this and cheerfully pouring our lives into our God given children, it's impossible to sit and be silent. They casually with non-existant authority say that this is a directive of the savior.




    Our surviving children serve God to this day. Joanna, born after Nathan, became a Christian at about five years of age and there was no doubt she knew Him! She died at fifteen thanks to a drinking driver. But glory to God we'll all be rejoined for eternity it in the place He's made for us.



    Joanna's last Christmas, December 1996.

    As I have opportunity I will denounce the ways of religion and dead denominations that deceive, stumble and lead astray multitudes. If our government isn't able to have the babies aborted and stand up for the women that kill them, then dead denominations lead those children astray from the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's way too late in my journey to nod in agreement with things I know are not right just to smooth things over.

    Psalms 94:16 (NKJV)
    Who will rise up for me against the evildoers?
    Who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?

    Evil doers? But they're dressed so nice, so clean and have such wonderful manners. The things they say are so sweet! Satan never comes as a snarling rabid beast but as an angel of light. Speaking the truth in love doesn't mean we have to coo like doves. That's not love.


    Psalm 55:21 KJVS
    The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.

    If the truth is an affront to someone's actions then it will cause anger and resentment to rise up in them every time. Hopefully the false teachers that practice these things against the word of God will be able to see the light of the gospel and be convicted and saved. Believers must be willing to speak out against error and leave their place of silent anonymity

  2. #2

    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    I believe we no longer need do this......... we are baptized upon belief................ we have it all.....................!!!!!!!!!!!!


    7

    That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.


    8

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


    9

    Not of works, lest any man should boast
    Eph. 2:8
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

  3. #3
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    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    *** MOD NOTE ***

    This thread is being moved to a more appropriate forum.
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
    C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

    "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
    "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

    "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
    "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
    "Our Hope is unchanged"
    "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

  4. #4
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    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    I think it's just fine to dedicate a baby to the Lord and take the responsibility and accountability of raising a child in the Lord. He/she can confirm their identity in Christ by baptism when they are ready.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    Wow..my post was deleted?

    Obviously it is having Faith in Christ and being born again (baptized with The Holy Spirit) that is the seal of Salvation for anyone---
    Including those who are baptized as infants or (submerged in H2O as adults.)
    I chose to have submersion baptism after I came to faith in Christ as an outward show of my faith, something I was lead to do.

    Regenerational Baptism (by sprinkling or submersion of/in water ) (for infants, children OR adults) is not Biblical.
    No one will be auto saved by this kind of Baptism-- Salvation comes only through Faith in Christ.
    Peace to you!

    “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
    (Matthew 5:5)


  6. #6
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    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooby_Snacks View Post
    Wow..my post was deleted?

    Obviously it is having Faith in Christ and being born again (baptized with The Holy Spirit) that is the seal of Salvation for anyone---
    Including those who are baptized as infants or (submerged in H2O as adults.)
    I chose to have submersion baptism after I came to faith in Christ as an outward show of my faith, something I was lead to do.

    Regenerational Baptism (by sprinkling or submersion of/in water ) (for infants, children OR adults) is not Biblical.
    No one will be auto saved by this kind of Baptism-- Salvation comes only through Faith in Christ.
    All true...my post wasn't about the salvation of the child as much as it was about the acknowledgement of the parents to raise the child in "the way."

    But heck, I wasn't dipped as an infant or even raised in "the way" but it was a painful path to Him.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  7. #7
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    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    Quote Originally Posted by grams View Post
    I believe we no longer need do this......... we are baptized upon belief................ we have it all.....................!!!!!!!!!!!!


    7

    That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.


    8

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


    9

    Not of works, lest any man should boast
    The word "and" is a conjunction. A conjunction joins two or more different things. "Bread AND butter." "The engine AND the gearbox." And so on. So scripture says:
    • "He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16)
    • "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water AND of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5)
    • "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, AND be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38)

    Seems to me that Baptism, which comes from the Greek "Baptizo", and which means "to completely immerse as in dyeing a cloth", is AN-OTHER, and completely separate, action to be completed.

  8. #8

    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    The Bible nowhere teaches infant baptism. We should be careful to do what God has says and not go beyond that (1 Cor 4:6). And 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism now saves you-- it corresponds to Noah and his family being "brought safely through water" in the ark. Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 also teach immersion of believers for the forgiveness of sins as being necessary (being baptized into the Father, Son & Holy Spirit). Mark 16:16 says that "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Clearly baptism (immersion) is necessary and not just faith because Romans 6:3-4 teaches that we are baptized into Christ's death and buried with him so that we can be also raised with him in newness of life. You can believe in Jesus but if you're not baptized, you're not obeying what God has commanded us in Scriptures (Acts 10:48).

    Josh
    "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."
    Prov 15:3

  9. #9
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    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua1 View Post
    The Bible nowhere teaches infant baptism. We should be careful to do what God has says and not go beyond that (1 Cor 4:6). And 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism now saves you-- it corresponds to Noah and his family being "brought safely through water" in the ark. Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 also teach immersion of believers for the forgiveness of sins as being necessary (being baptized into the Father, Son & Holy Spirit). Mark 16:16 says that "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Clearly baptism (immersion) is necessary and not just faith because Romans 6:3-4 teaches that we are baptized into Christ's death and buried with him so that we can be also raised with him in newness of life. You can believe in Jesus but if you're not baptized, you're not obeying what God has commanded us in Scriptures (Acts 10:48).

    Josh
    This seems somewhat legalistic and works based to me. Baptism does not save anyone. The basic concept of Mikvah immersion is to become ritually clean, it is a "rebirth" of sorts and that is why Jesus was astounded that Nicodemus didn't understand the concept.

    So you are saying that an autistic person who would rather DIE than be immersed can not be saved? How cruel that doctrine is.

    It's not baptism that saves us, it's Jesus.

    And what God requires from us is to do Justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with our God. Legalism and condemnation have no place in His Kingdom.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  10. #10

    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    This seems somewhat legalistic and works based to me. .
    Proverbs 14:12: There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

    Baptism does not save anyone.
    How do you view 1 Peter 3:21 then? Think about what it's saying.

    1 Pe 3:21 (ESV): Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

    The basic concept of Mikvah immersion is to become ritually clean,
    Fine, but we are not living under the old law anymore, this is not becoming simply ritually clean, this is becoming clean from actual sin (Acts 2:38).

    it is a "rebirth" of sorts and that is why Jesus was astounded that Nicodemus didn't understand the concept.
    Reading John 3:3-14 shows that Jesus is not talking about reinstating the old covenant-- Nicodemus, a Pharisee, would have understood the ritual washings; Nicodemus is marveling because he's having trouble believing what Jesus is saying. Jesus is astounded because Nicodemus should have understood what He meant when he said you had to be born of water and the Spirit.

    verse 5: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
    verse 7: "Do not marvel that I said to you, "You must be born again."

    So you are saying that an autistic person who would rather DIE than be immersed can not be saved? How cruel that doctrine is.
    If I'm understanding you correctly, you're asking if a person who doesn't know any better and can't know any better because of mental impairments can be saved. It's a good question and it's answered in Romans 2:12-16.

    v14: For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
    v15: They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

    Unless I misunderstood the question; I mean, why would someone die rather than be immersed? Because they're afraid of water? But is that a valid reason?


    It's not baptism that saves us, it's Jesus.
    But Jesus commands us to get baptized (Mat 28:19-20).

    Here's a question: Was Jesus himself baptized? (see matthew 3:16).

    If so, why? (Matthew 3:15).

    To fulfill all righteousness-- meaning, Jesus is our example and the things he asks us to do are the things he did.

    -He died for us (John 15:13: "greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends).
    -He preached the gospel (Mat 28:19-20-- proclaim the gospel to all nations).
    -Washed the disciples' feet- (John 13:15- we are to love one another and follow His example).
    -He got baptized (Rom 6:3-4-- we are buried with him in baptism and raised up).


    And what God requires from us is to do Justice, to love mercy and to walk humbly with our God.
    I agree with that, but that doesn't mean that baptism is excluded from what we need to do to be saved. 1 Cor 10:2 says that in the Exodus, all the Israelites passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. It's another example and analogy of what we need to do today. The Israelites were in bondage to the Egyptians (before being saved, a sinner is in bondage to sin). They passed through the Red Sea (Christians pass through baptism) and then through trials in the wilderness for 40 years (Christians must suffer through this life) until reaching the promised Land (heaven).

    We have to go by God's Word-- not our feelings.

    Josh
    "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."
    Prov 15:3

  11. #11
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    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    We need to be baptized to be obedient to what God commands us to do.

    It is not salvific.

    If it was, try making sense of Paul's words to the Corinthians:

    14*I thank God, that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15*so that no one can say you were baptized in my name. 16*I did, in fact, baptize the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t recall if I baptized anyone else. 17*For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with eloquent wisdom, so that the cross of Christ will not be emptied of its effect.

    "I thank God that I baptized none of you"? That's blasphemous if baptism is part of getting saved. If baptism was necessary to be saved, then Paul being sent to preach the gospel, but not baptize is crazy talk.

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  12. #12

    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    We need to be baptized to be obedient to what God commands us to do.

    It is not salvific.
    Paul never says baptism is not salvific in this passage. Let me explain.

    "I thank God that I baptized none of you "
    except Crispus and Gaius, SO THAT no one can say you were baptized in my name.

    His point is that it wasn't good how the Corinthians were bragging about who they were baptized by, -- and, incidentally, Paul had baptized some of them-- Crispus and Gaius, and the household of Stephanas.

    What Paul is saying in 1 Cor 1:17 and context is that his mission is to preach the gospel, and the hearer's response to the gospel should be to get baptized. You can't force someone to get baptized. He's not supposed to go to every synagogue and start baptizing people and that's the only thing he does, with no explanation.

    Josh
    "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."
    Prov 15:3

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    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    The thief on the cross that cried out to Jesus didn't get baptized. God provides these aberrations to tear down the institutions men build around them. My nephew is church of Christ and all he can talk about is Water baptism.

    I'm not certain he's even been born again. But he's got baptism down.

    Men complicate every simple thing God does building altars to the smallest act.

  14. #14
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    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    I have to agree that 1 Peter 3 and John 3 make a strong case for the need to be baptized. I also practice infant baptism as both my kids were baptized as babies.

    However, baptism is not magic, it cannot be done and then poof someone is saved or will go to heaven when they die, that would make our salvation works based. It should be done out of obedience and because the sacraments do have an actual effect on us and our world.

    Infant baptism is also reminiscent of carrying on of the Abrahamic covenant with God, just as Abraham and his household and all his family were circumcised to be made part of the covenant, either without their own consent or making a decision because it was done to them as infants (on the 8th day). So we can baptize infants and raise them up in the faith.

    With all this said, we are held to the sacraments (ie being baptized and taking part in the Lord's Supper), but God is not; he is more powerful than the sacraments and can accept people into his Kingdom if they are not/were not baptized.

    Also interesting to note that as far as I know all the Protestant Reformers believed in baptismal regeneration (someone can correct me if I am wrong; I have not studied the Reformers like I have the ECFs).

  15. #15

    Re: Baptizing babies.?...!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
    The thief on the cross that cried out to Jesus didn't get baptized. God provides these aberrations to tear down the institutions men build around them. My nephew is church of Christ and all he can talk about is Water baptism.

    I'm not certain he's even been born again. But he's got baptism down.

    Men complicate every simple thing God does building altars to the smallest act.

    The thief on the cross didn't need to be baptized clearly because Jesus hadn't been raised from the dead. That's the point: We're baptized into Christ's death-- (Rom 6:3-4) and raised with him in newness of life. Once Jesus was raised, however, the NT came into effect and baptism became necessary.
    "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."
    Prov 15:3

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