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Thread: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

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    The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    The Tree of Life:

    Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Rev 2:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manners of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    The same Tree of Life that is in heaven was formerly in the garden of Eden which is on earth. Apparently, the tree of knowledge (which Adam and Eve ate the fruit) and the tree of life is not the same.

    · Was the tree originally in heaven or did it come into being for the first time in the garden?
    · Did God uproot and replanted it in heaven or is it another one that will be in the New Jerusalem?
    · Or, was the tree Jesus?
    · What role does the tree of life play to the saved immortal soul?
    · Why does the saved need the fruit of this tree?
    · According to Rev 21:4, death and everything else that curses tears and sorrow will be no more, therefore, why should the leaves of this tree bring “healing” - healing from what?


    The Water of Life:

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

    John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
    John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    · What is the difference between this water and the tree of life?
    · Is this water literal or is it symbolic of the Glory of the Lamb?
    · Is it right to believe that this water is the same that came out of Jesus Christ’ body when he was speared by the soldier in John 19:34?

    Your thoughts?

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The Tree of Life:

    Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Rev 2:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manners of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    The same Tree of Life that is in heaven was formerly in the garden of Eden which is on earth. Apparently, the tree of knowledge (which Adam and Eve ate the fruit) and the tree of life is not the same.

    · Was the tree originally in heaven or did it come into being for the first time in the garden?
    · Did God uproot and replanted it in heaven or is it another one that will be in the New Jerusalem?
    · Or, was the tree Jesus?
    · What role does the tree of life play to the saved immortal soul?
    · Why does the saved need the fruit of this tree?
    · According to Rev 21:4, death and everything else that curses tears and sorrow will be no more, therefore, why should the leaves of this tree bring “healing” - healing from what?


    The Water of Life:

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

    John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
    John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    · What is the difference between this water and the tree of life?
    · Is this water literal or is it symbolic of the Glory of the Lamb?
    · Is it right to believe that this water is the same that came out of Jesus Christ’ body when he was speared by the soldier in John 19:34?

    Your thoughts?
    For the time being, until I have thought more on some of what you asked, can't see the tree of life meaning Christ. IMO Christ is the way back to the tree of life, yet isn't the tree of life.

    Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


    As can be seen here, verse 2 places the location of the TOL in the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, meaning the river in verse 1, and that verse 1 places the location of Christ on the throne and not in the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river. And besides, trying to apply the following to Christ somehow...which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month...I just don't see making much sense.

    Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Christ is the speaker here. It seems pretty obvious from the text that Christ and the TOL can't be one and the same.

  3. #3

    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The Tree of Life:

    Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Rev 2:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manners of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    The same Tree of Life that is in heaven was formerly in the garden of Eden which is on earth. Apparently, the tree of knowledge (which Adam and Eve ate the fruit) and the tree of life is not the same.

    · Was the tree originally in heaven or did it come into being for the first time in the garden?
    · Did God uproot and replanted it in heaven or is it another one that will be in the New Jerusalem?
    · Or, was the tree Jesus?
    · What role does the tree of life play to the saved immortal soul?
    · Why does the saved need the fruit of this tree?
    · According to Rev 21:4, death and everything else that curses tears and sorrow will be no more, therefore, why should the leaves of this tree bring “healing” - healing from what?


    The Water of Life:

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

    John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
    John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    · What is the difference between this water and the tree of life?
    · Is this water literal or is it symbolic of the Glory of the Lamb?
    · Is it right to believe that this water is the same that came out of Jesus Christ’ body when he was speared by the soldier in John 19:34?

    Your thoughts?
    If the tree of life is on either side of the river, doesn't this seem like there are more than one tree of life? How can one tree be on either side?

    The leaves that are for healing the nations: I looked this verse up in Greek and the word healing in this context means therapy, the leaves are for those serving God.

    The saved will need the tree of life because the original purpose was to eat of it and live forever.

    It could be that the original tree of life will be among the other trees, but maybe God plants additional.

    The water is life itself, it also signifies sanctification, the tree of life's purpose is to live forever. I think the water is both, literal and symbolic.

    I could be in error but those are my thoughts without doing a major study. Looking forward to learning more!

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    If the tree of life is on either side of the river, doesn't this seem like there are more than one tree of life? How can one tree be on either side?
    Maybe the TOL is like a bridge perhaps? A bridge can be on either side of the river, yet only be one bridge. This just came to mind, so have no clue whether this might help to try and explain it or not. But I don't think there would be two TOLs though. Jesus didn't seem to indicate He was meaning it in a plural sense.

  5. #5

    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Maybe the TOL is like a bridge perhaps? A bridge can be on either side of the river, yet only be one bridge. This just came to mind, so have no clue whether this might help to try and explain it or not. But I don't think there would be two TOLs though. Jesus didn't seem to indicate He was meaning it in a plural sense.
    Very cool visual thinking about it being a bridge, or perhaps it's gigantic and it has a space at the bottom and the river runs through it?

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    For the time being, until I have thought more on some of what you asked, can't see the tree of life meaning Christ. IMO Christ is the way back to the tree of life, yet isn't the tree of life.

    Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


    As can be seen here, verse 2 places the location of the TOL in the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, meaning the river in verse 1, and that verse 1 places the location of Christ on the throne and not in the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river. And besides, trying to apply the following to Christ somehow...which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month...I just don't see making much sense.

    Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Christ is the speaker here. It seems pretty obvious from the text that Christ and the TOL can't be one and the same.
    I personally think that the tree if it a real tree (this is a vision after all) (I do think it is but still .....) is part of or represents God's and the Lambs provision for His people. While the tree provides food the river provides drink and since both are together I think it is linked to His abundant provision of all our needs in NJ. I don't think it has to be more spiritualized than that.

    Which is interesting when you look at the letter sent to the angel of Ephesus. If he overcame he would be allowed to partake of this tree of life in the paradise of God (which I think is referring NJ at least in that letter). But on the other hand if he did not over come what would he get? Certainly not what those who over come get. He would not be able to partake of the tree of life. No provision from God.
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
    C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

    "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
    "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

    "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
    "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
    "Our Hope is unchanged"
    "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Old man View Post

    Which is interesting when you look at the letter sent to the angel of Ephesus. If he overcame he would be allowed to partake of this tree of life in the paradise of God (which I think is referring NJ at least in that letter). But on the other hand if he did not over come what would he get? Certainly not what those who over come get. He would not be able to partake of the tree of life. No provision from God.
    If the person doesn't overcome, I only see being cast into the LOF instead as the only other option.

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    If the person doesn't overcome, I only see being cast into the LOF instead as the only other option.
    That's what is implied by not being allowed to partake of the tree of life.
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
    C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

    "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
    "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

    "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
    "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
    "Our Hope is unchanged"
    "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The Tree of Life:

    Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Rev 2:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manners of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    The same Tree of Life that is in heaven was formerly in the garden of Eden which is on earth. Apparently, the tree of knowledge (which Adam and Eve ate the fruit) and the tree of life is not the same.

    · Was the tree originally in heaven or did it come into being for the first time in the garden?
    · Did God uproot and replanted it in heaven or is it another one that will be in the New Jerusalem?
    · Or, was the tree Jesus?
    · What role does the tree of life play to the saved immortal soul?
    · Why does the saved need the fruit of this tree?
    · According to Rev 21:4, death and everything else that curses tears and sorrow will be no more, therefore, why should the leaves of this tree bring “healing” - healing from what?


    The Water of Life:

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

    John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
    John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    · What is the difference between this water and the tree of life?
    · Is this water literal or is it symbolic of the Glory of the Lamb?
    · Is it right to believe that this water is the same that came out of Jesus Christ’ body when he was speared by the soldier in John 19:34?

    Your thoughts?
    Instead of answering each question separately, I will give my thoughts on the Tree of Life.

    According to 2nd Peter 1:20 we may not interpret scripture privately. We must interpret scripture using scripture. And a Tree in Parable is always a king and his kingdom (Judg.9:8-13; Daniel 4 and Ezekiel 31). Thus, the Tree of Life is our Lord Jesus and His Kingdom. There are TWO types of Kingdom in the Bible. (1) The physical domain that the king rules, and (2) the LIFE of that Kingdom. Point #2 is best explained by a lion. The lions VITALITY is one thing, that is, the ferocious and powerful hunting and fighting spirit, and the position of rule that the lion exercises is the ISSUE of this VITALITY. He is King of the ANIMAL kingdom. But he is not ruler of man's kingdom. There, a HUMAN is king, and because the VITALITY of the man is more cunning than the lion, man rules over the animal kingdom. Man is able to build protection against the lion and weapons to kill it. And yet neither of these cannot rule the INSECT kingdom because the lowly mosquito kills more people in 1 year than lions in all the whole history of mankind.

    So also our Lord Jesus. He has DIVINE VITALITY and thus rules ALL the creation. Adam was made perfect. But he only had human vitality, perfect as it was. To accomplish God's plan with man, namely that man would be be in God's image and likeness, subdue and rule angels which were stronger than him, fence about and keep holy a Garden that had a Serpent in it, and be a Bride for Christ, man had to have a vitality higher than human vitality. So the perfect man Adam was put in front of Jesus - the One with divine vitality, and told to partake of it.

    But man failed and sinned before he ate of this tree. The word "also" in Genesis 3:22 shows that man had not yet eaten of it when he sinned. Since only by the shedding of blood can sins be remitted (Heb.9:22), our Lord Jesus hides the Tree, for a Tree has no blood, and presents Himself now as a Lamb. The Lamb was to killed (its blood shed) AND it was to be eaten (Exodus 12). So John Chapter 6 speaks of "eating Christ's flesh" (Jn.6:53). But, if the disciples ate the flesh of Jesus it would soon consumed and all other "eaters" would go empty. So our Lord Jesus adds His human living to His divinity, and then sends His Spirit with the whole package. So He can then say in John 6:63; "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

    When a man eats anything it is processed by his body. If we cut him open six hours later we will find that his stomach is empty but that the elements of the flood have become ORGANICALLY ONE WITH THE MAN. So also those who eat Christ. The divine life of Christ infuses the man.

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    If the tree of life is on either side of the river, doesn't this seem like there are more than one tree of life? How can one tree be on either side?

    The leaves that are for healing the nations: I looked this verse up in Greek and the word healing in this context means therapy, the leaves are for those serving God.

    The saved will need the tree of life because the original purpose was to eat of it and live forever.

    It could be that the original tree of life will be among the other trees, but maybe God plants additional.

    The water is life itself, it also signifies sanctification, the tree of life's purpose is to live forever. I think the water is both, literal and symbolic.

    I could be in error but those are my thoughts without doing a major study. Looking forward to learning more!
    Some scholars have also proposed similar thoughts that the TOL is likely to be many and on either side of the river. IOW, many trees of the same species, bearing the same fruits at the same time. This is the only way it makes sense they can astride the river.

    I believe the leaves actually sustain endless life rather than *healing* since we are told earlier that sickness and all that cause sorrow and tears are no more. With a prophecy as complex as this, I don't have all the answers.

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    For the time being, until I have thought more on some of what you asked, can't see the tree of life meaning Christ. IMO Christ is the way back to the tree of life, yet isn't the tree of life.

    Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


    As can be seen here, verse 2 places the location of the TOL in the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, meaning the river in verse 1, and that verse 1 places the location of Christ on the throne and not in the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river. And besides, trying to apply the following to Christ somehow...which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month...I just don't see making much sense.

    Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Christ is the speaker here. It seems pretty obvious from the text that Christ and the TOL can't be one and the same.
    I share your thoughts.

    However, I'm still scratching my head to understand why the tree was in the garden of Eden since God's throne was never in the garden to start with?

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Old man View Post
    I personally think that the tree if it a real tree (this is a vision after all) (I do think it is but still .....) is part of or represents God's and the Lambs provision for His people. While the tree provides food the river provides drink and since both are together I think it is linked to His abundant provision of all our needs in NJ. I don't think it has to be more spiritualized than that.

    Which is interesting when you look at the letter sent to the angel of Ephesus. If he overcame he would be allowed to partake of this tree of life in the paradise of God (which I think is referring NJ at least in that letter). But on the other hand if he did not over come what would he get? Certainly not what those who over come get. He would not be able to partake of the tree of life. No provision from God.
    What we understand from the TOL and the LW is that without them immortality (contrary to our thoughts) will be unsustainable. This brings me to another question. Does it mean the angels also eat and drink of the TOL and LW since we are told the saints will be like angels in the resurrection?

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The Tree of Life:

    Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Rev 2:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manners of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    The same Tree of Life that is in heaven was formerly in the garden of Eden which is on earth. Apparently, the tree of knowledge (which Adam and Eve ate the fruit) and the tree of life is not the same.

    · Was the tree originally in heaven or did it come into being for the first time in the garden?
    · Did God uproot and replanted it in heaven or is it another one that will be in the New Jerusalem?
    · Or, was the tree Jesus?
    · What role does the tree of life play to the saved immortal soul?
    · Why does the saved need the fruit of this tree?
    · According to Rev 21:4, death and everything else that curses tears and sorrow will be no more, therefore, why should the leaves of this tree bring “healing” - healing from what?


    The Water of Life:

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

    John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
    John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

    · What is the difference between this water and the tree of life?
    · Is this water literal or is it symbolic of the Glory of the Lamb?
    · Is it right to believe that this water is the same that came out of Jesus Christ’ body when he was speared by the soldier in John 19:34?

    Your thoughts?
    Before all else, where did you find there grow trees in heaven?

    Aristarkos

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    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    What we understand from the TOL and the LW is that without them immortality (contrary to our thoughts) will be unsustainable. This brings me to another question. Does it mean the angels also eat and drink of the TOL and LW since we are told the saints will be like angels in the resurrection?
    There is a difference between being "LIKE" the angels and "BEING" angels. There will be similarities but not the same. I do not believe angels are given to eat of the TOP or LW nor do they need to.
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
    C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

    "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
    "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

    "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
    "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
    "Our Hope is unchanged"
    "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

  15. #15

    Re: The Tree of Life and The Living Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    What we understand from the TOL and the LW is that without them immortality (contrary to our thoughts) will be unsustainable.
    I don't believe you have any grounds for that assertion. We have a very inadequate understanding of the functions of the tree of life and the water of life. On the other hand, regardless of their existence, our immortality is GUARANTEED through the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. That is clearly affirmed in 1 Corinthians 15 (and many other Scriptures).

    This brings me to another question. Does it mean the angels also eat and drink of the TOL and LW since we are told the saints will be like angels in the resurrection?
    Why do Christians always misunderstand what was said regarding the angels and how Christians will be in the resurrection? Since angels were never offered redemption, the angels have no part in the TOL or the LW. They simply observe and minister to the saints.

    As to comparing the saints and angels, the Lord was not asserting that angels are sexless and therefore Christians will be sexless in Heaven. The whole point of that teaching was that Heaven is unlike earth, and that marriages are not performed in Heaven, neither are they of any consequence over there. The only marriage that will count in Heaven is that of the Divine Bridegroom and His spotless Bride (the Church).

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