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Thread: Author of "the Message" does an about face

  1. #16
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    Re: Author of "the Message" does an about face

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    Kalahari can answer for himself, but he actually said that darkness--not the Devil, would do the consuming.

    We cannot win people to the Lord by being harsh and judgmental, but must love them as they are--just as the Lord did us. Yet, we do a great disservice both to our holy God and to those we witness to, if we dismiss the truth that a deviant lifestyle He calls an abomination is perfectly acceptable. Repentance is required of us when we come to the Lord. There is a vast difference between a professing Christian who is struggling with same sex attraction and seeking deliverance from it, and one who is openly gay and happily in a same sex relationship.

    Peterson stated that homosexuals he personally knew seem to have as good a spiritual life as him. Considering the fact homosexuality is condemned as an abomination by God, that's a strange thing for a spiritual elder to say. How can a child of God bear the light of the Gospel to those in darkness if there truly is no difference between their darkness and his light? Light and darkness are mutually exclusive. Either the light will drive the darkness away, or you must abandon your light and enter the darkness. I think something along those lines is what Kalahari was getting at when he spoke of being consumed by the darkness when you try to appease it. If so, I totally agree.
    Hooah. When a "Christian" abandons the light, for the darkness... they were either ALWAYS in the darkness and never a Christian, or they are a Christian, allowed the devil to devour them and then, they jump into the darkness and declare sin = ok.

    That is what I'm saying... just sayin.
    Slug1--out

    ~At the end of the day, the Cross we bear... is small!~

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~


    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



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    Re: Author of "the Message" does an about face

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Hooah. When a "Christian" abandons the light, for the darkness... they were either ALWAYS in the darkness and never a Christian, or they are a Christian, allowed the devil to devour them and then, they jump into the darkness and declare sin = ok.

    That is what I'm saying... just sayin.
    Gotcha. Peter warned: "Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." A Christian who foolishly casts aside his light and wanders into the darkness with the lost is not likely to see that lion until he's in his jaws.

    When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.

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    Re: Author of "the Message" does an about face

    Ultimately, the moral decay of the church should be the focal point of this thread. When a politician gets caught in a scandal, we usually chalk up his actions to being a symptom of government corruption. In a similar way, Peterson's quotes regarding gay marriage (and homosexuality in general) are representative of the apostasy that is spreading through the church in the last days. Not only is church leadership beginning to cease calling homosexuality sin--as God clearly defines it, but now those who practice the deviance as a lifestyle are being welcomed into leadership positions!

    As far back as 1972, the United Church of Christ ordained its first openly gay minister. In the years that followed, LGBTQ individuals have been consecrated as clergy in a number of churches around the world, including the Episopal Church (2003), the Church of Sweden (2009), the Evangelical Lutheran Church (2010), the Presbyterian Church (2012), and the church of England (2016). Also in 2016, the United Methodist Church, while still sharply divided over the issue, consecrated its first openly gay and married bishop. (I'm sure I missed a few, and that others will soon follow).

    So then, we have individuals around the world who openly practice the very lifestyle condemned in the Bible they're preaching from. Already in the West, two men and two women can exchange vows and be joined in matrimony, and live as any married couple traditionally has. Now the perversion of same sex relationships has encroached into the church. And willfully ignorant Christians, in a misguided attempt to be inclusive and broadminded, are embracing what God calls an abomination, and are serving the purposes of Satan.

    Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
    (1 Cor 6:9-10)

    In the midst of the practices that will keep a person out of the kingdom of God, Paul lists "malakoi," which refers to an effiminate male who allows a man to have sex with him, and "arsenokoitai," a broader term for homosexuals. Both refer to men who engage in homosexual acts. In the light of this passage, how can church leaders ordain openly gay men to the ministry? How can such a person ignore the passages that condemn their sexuality? And how can any professing Christian assure a homosexual that he can be saved while practicing the gay lifestyle?

    According to Paul, unrepentant fornicators, idolators, adulterers, thieves, the covetous, drunkards, revilers, and swindlers are in the same boat as unrepentant homosexuals--a boat on its way to the lake of fire. So, while homosexuality should not be compared to the others on some sort of "sin scale", neither should it be given a pass because of a shift in the moral standards of secular society. There is currently a resurgence of the spirit of Sodom sweeping the world today. And those who think they can both retain an ungodly lifestyle and inherit the kingdom of God would do well to ignore bad advice, and heed Paul's words instead: "do not be deceived."

    When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.

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    Re: Author of "the Message" does an about face

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    Ultimately, the moral decay of the church should be the focal point of this thread. When a politician gets caught in a scandal, we usually chalk up his actions to being a symptom of government corruption. In a similar way, Peterson's quotes regarding gay marriage (and homosexuality in general) are representative of the apostasy that is spreading through the church in the last days. Not only is church leadership beginning to cease calling homosexuality sin--as God clearly defines it, but now those who practice the deviance as a lifestyle are being welcomed into leadership positions!

    As far back as 1972, the United Church of Christ ordained its first openly gay minister. In the years that followed, LGBTQ individuals have been consecrated as clergy in a number of churches around the world, including the Episopal Church (2003), the Church of Sweden (2009), the Evangelical Lutheran Church (2010), the Presbyterian Church (2012), and the church of England (2016). Also in 2016, the United Methodist Church, while still sharply divided over the issue, consecrated its first openly gay and married bishop. (I'm sure I missed a few, and that others will soon follow).

    So then, we have individuals around the world who openly practice the very lifestyle condemned in the Bible they're preaching from. Already in the West, two men and two women can exchange vows and be joined in matrimony, and live as any married couple traditionally has. Now the perversion of same sex relationships has encroached into the church. And willfully ignorant Christians, in a misguided attempt to be inclusive and broadminded, are embracing what God calls an abomination, and are serving the purposes of Satan.

    Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
    (1 Cor 6:9-10)

    In the midst of the practices that will keep a person out of the kingdom of God, Paul lists "malakoi," which refers to an effiminate male who allows a man to have sex with him, and "arsenokoitai," a broader term for homosexuals. Both refer to men who engage in homosexual acts. In the light of this passage, how can church leaders ordain openly gay men to the ministry? How can such a person ignore the passages that condemn their sexuality? And how can any professing Christian assure a homosexual that he can be saved while practicing the gay lifestyle?

    According to Paul, unrepentant fornicators, idolators, adulterers, thieves, the covetous, drunkards, revilers, and swindlers are in the same boat as unrepentant homosexuals--a boat on its way to the lake of fire. So, while homosexuality should not be compared to the others on some sort of "sin scale", neither should it be given a pass because of a shift in the moral standards of secular society. There is currently a resurgence of the spirit of Sodom sweeping the world today. And those who think they can both retain an ungodly lifestyle and inherit the kingdom of God would do well to ignore bad advice, and heed Paul's words instead: "do not be deceived."
    To not throw all Presbyterians under the bus, specifically it's the PCUSA denomination that made that stance. The PCA and OPC have remained faithful to Scripture. One of the more recent sound books and one of the best books on the subject is What Does the Bible Really Teach About Homosexuality? by Kevin Deyoung, a PCA pastor.

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    Re: Author of "the Message" does an about face

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Can Christians be devoured by the devil when they succumb to the world's pressures?
    This right here. Exactly. If NOT, i.e. "Christians" cannot be devoured and are excluded from detriment if they succumb, and if public opinion of the Church and the public actions and stated beliefs of those within ultimately have no effect on the composition of "the Elect" or their eternal disposition, then why not have any kind of opinion on contemporary matters and state them with confidence? Where is the harm, especially in the eternal sense? Where would be the harm in a full out embrace in love of the world and all the ways of the people therein? Just put the word "love" as a pretext to every view in embrace of their ways and confidently soldier on. There would be no personal jeopardy above that which is ultimately dispensed to you, and there would be no jeopardy towards those of your actions. Honestly, this is where I would be if I believed the Bible stated such regarding your question. But the Bible doesn't give me that logical freedom when I read it.
    Watchinginawe

    I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

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    Re: Author of "the Message" does an about face

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    To not throw all Presbyterians under the bus, specifically it's the PCUSA denomination that made that stance. The PCA and OPC have remained faithful to Scripture. One of the more recent sound books and one of the best books on the subject is What Does the Bible Really Teach About Homosexuality? by Kevin Deyoung, a PCA pastor.
    Yes, thank you for catching that TrustGzus, that was oversight on my part. Indeed, the PCA and OPC have not embraced LGBTQ marriage or clergy as the PCUSA has. Incidentally, the PCUSA also holds the distinction of being the first mainstream Protestant American church to have a transgender minister. In 1996, Eric Karl Swenson transitioned from male to female, while retaining his position in the church, becoming "Erin" Swenson.

    Also, it should be noted that as of April, 2017, the ordination of openly gay bishop Karen Oliveto by the college of bishops in the Western jurisdiction of the United Methodist Church was ruled against by the church's highest court. "Qualifications for Ordination" in "The Book of Discipline Statements," reads in part: "The practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching. Therefore self-avowed practicing homosexuals are not to be certified as candidates, ordained as ministers, or appointed to serve in The United Methodist Church." This has initiated a formal dispute that has yet to be resolved, and caused a rift in the church. Olivet's future and the unity of the UMC hang in the balance. Yet, until a resolution is reached, she remains a bishop "in good standing."

    When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.

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    Re: Author of "the Message" does an about face

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    Ultimately, the moral decay of the church should be the focal point of this thread. When a politician gets caught in a scandal, we usually chalk up his actions to being a symptom of government corruption. In a similar way, Peterson's quotes regarding gay marriage (and homosexuality in general) are representative of the apostasy that is spreading through the church in the last days. Not only is church leadership beginning to cease calling homosexuality sin--as God clearly defines it, but now those who practice the deviance as a lifestyle are being welcomed into leadership positions!
    Keep in mind there has always been issues in the "church". In Jesus day you had the "fundamentalist" that were in a big ditch called the Pharisees. They had all kinds of rules to follow. You also had the "liberals" that didn't even believe what was in the bible and they were called the Sadducees. It will continue to be this way. As society changes, so will the modern day version of the Pharisees and Sadducees change.

    Having said that, it is concerning to me to see some in the evangelical movement endorsing some of the more liberal positions of society.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
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    Re: Author of "the Message" does an about face

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Keep in mind there has always been issues in the "church". In Jesus day you had the "fundamentalist" that were in a big ditch called the Pharisees. They had all kinds of rules to follow. You also had the "liberals" that didn't even believe what was in the bible and they were called the Sadducees. It will continue to be this way. As society changes, so will the modern day version of the Pharisees and Sadducees change.

    Having said that, it is concerning to me to see some in the evangelical movement endorsing some of the more liberal positions of society.
    I understand what you're saying. But personally, I consider practitioners of sodomy preaching from the pulpit a giant leap from the failings of both the Pharisees and Saducees, as well as a sign of how close the sand in last days hourglass is to running out.

    And these liberal positions should be concerning. Church leaders are contradicting God with regard to what is acceptable to Him, and in the process are misleading the lost concerning their salvation. They affirm the acceptability of homosexuality before God--despite the clearly worded testimony in both the Old and New Testaments that men actively engaged in same sex relationships (as with adultery and fornication) will not enter the kingdom of God. They are giving lost people a false sense of security, which is inexcusable, and they will answer for it.

    When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.

  9. #24
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    Re: Author of "the Message" does an about face

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    I understand what you're saying. But personally, I consider practitioners of sodomy preaching from the pulpit a giant leap from the failings of both the Pharisees and Saducees, as well as a sign of how close the sand in last days hourglass is to running out.

    And these liberal positions should be concerning. Church leaders are contradicting God with regard to what is acceptable to Him, and in the process are misleading the lost concerning their salvation. They affirm the acceptability of homosexuality before God--despite the clearly worded testimony in both the Old and New Testaments that men actively engaged in same sex relationships (as with adultery and fornication) will not enter the kingdom of God. They are giving lost people a false sense of security, which is inexcusable, and they will answer for it.
    Hooah. We are seeing 2 Peter 2:1-3 in action. Whole portions of the Body, following these false teachers into eternity separated from God.
    Slug1--out

    ~At the end of the day, the Cross we bear... is small!~

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~


    ~"It is one thing to speak God's name in a message but another to speak of God's standards in a message. The name of God is not removed from many a message today but the standards of God... ARE removed."~

    ~"Psalm 106:23 Therefore He said that He would destroy them, Had not Moses His chosen one stood before Him in the breach, To turn away His wrath, lest He destroy them."...
    So don't say that God never meant to destroy the Hebrews, to do so, makes God a liar.~



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    Re: Author of "the Message" does an about face

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Hooah. We are seeing 2 Peter 2:1-3 in action. Whole portions of the Body, following these false teachers into eternity separated from God.
    Amen! This is part of the great apostasy Paul spoke of. Many will prefer the lies of men, which support a sinful lifestyle, rather the truth of God's word. Anyone who denies that repentance is part of the Gospel message is a liar.

    When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.

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