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Thread: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

  1. #1
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    Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Ho to all and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam UNTIL Moses , even over the ones not having sinned after the LIKENESS of the transgression of Adam , who is a PATTERN of the coming (one ) .

    #1 , This is the last time the FREE WILL was used by man !!

    #2 The first time FREE WILL was used was bt angels and LUCIFER !!

    How were people saved from Adam until Moses ??

    #3 Some believe that there is only one gospel , how can that be ?

    #4 , Adam was the Pattern of being the head of the Old Creation !!

    #5 Now Christ is going to be the HEAD of th New Creation !!

    So the question is , How was man saved from Adam until Moses ??

    dan p

  2. #2

    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Ho to all and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam UNTIL Moses , even over the ones not having sinned after the LIKENESS of the transgression of Adam , who is a PATTERN of the coming (one ) .

    #1 , This is the last time the FREE WILL was used by man !!

    #2 The first time FREE WILL was used was bt angels and LUCIFER !!

    How were people saved from Adam until Moses ??

    #3 Some believe that there is only one gospel , how can that be ?

    #4 , Adam was the Pattern of being the head of the Old Creation !!

    #5 Now Christ is going to be the HEAD of th New Creation !!

    So the question is , How was man saved from Adam until Moses ??

    dan p
    From the time of Adam to Moses, God had only given one commandment to men. Do not eat of the tree of knowledge. The point made in this scripture is: the only transgression that mankind could do during this time had become inapplicable to all. They[from Adam to Moses] sinned, but it wad not a sin of transgression, as Adam's was. It was transgression that brought death to everyone. Yet everyone was guilty of sin during this time - before God gave the 10 commandments. Adams transgression brought death to everyone. Christs resurrection will bring life to everyone. I don't know if this answered your question.
    Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book!
    GB

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    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Ho to all and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam UNTIL Moses , even over the ones not having sinned after the LIKENESS of the transgression of Adam , who is a PATTERN of the coming (one ) .

    #1 , This is the last time the FREE WILL was used by man !!

    #2 The first time FREE WILL was used was bt angels and LUCIFER !!

    How were people saved from Adam until Moses ??

    #3 Some believe that there is only one gospel , how can that be ?

    #4 , Adam was the Pattern of being the head of the Old Creation !!

    #5 Now Christ is going to be the HEAD of th New Creation !!

    So the question is , How was man saved from Adam until Moses ??

    dan p
    I think perhaps you misunderstood what Paul was saying. Paul's point here is to assert that the Law of Moses isn't where sin and death started. Sin and death took place well before the Law of Moses was given to the people of Israel. Paul mentions Adam because he was the first human being disobey a direct and explicit commandment of God. There were other explicit commandments of God between the time of Adam and the time of Moses. God commanded Noah to build an ark, and he commanded Abram to leave the land of his birth. Both of these men obeyed God. It wasn't until the time of Moses that we read about men who disobeyed an explicit commandment of God. However, Paul says, just because the Bible is silent concerning these intervening years, doesn't mean that people weren't sinning.

    And how does Paul know this? Two reasons: first, people continued to die during that time, and second, Adam was an archetypal human being. And everyone who lived between the time of Adam and the time of Moses were no different than Adam and as such we can deduce that they were sinners just like he was.

    In the book of Hebrews Paul argues that every believer from the time of Abel forward is going to be saved, and everyone is saved by faith through the blood of Jesus Christ.

  4. #4

    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Ho to all and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam UNTIL Moses , even over the ones not having sinned after the LIKENESS of the transgression of Adam , who is a PATTERN of the coming (one ) .

    #1 , This is the last time the FREE WILL was used by man !!

    #2 The first time FREE WILL was used was bt angels and LUCIFER !!

    How were people saved from Adam until Moses ??

    #3 Some believe that there is only one gospel , how can that be ?

    #4 , Adam was the Pattern of being the head of the Old Creation !!

    #5 Now Christ is going to be the HEAD of th New Creation !!

    So the question is , How was man saved from Adam until Moses ??

    dan p
    It appears that Paul is saying all, since Adam, are guilty of sin--whether or not we are guilty of Adam's particular sin, guilty under the Law of Moses, or somewhere between the guilt of Adam and Moses. We all have inherited from Adam and Eve a *sin nature.* Thus we are all guilty of sin, no matter what standards we violated.

    Adam was a template in reverse for Christ. Whereas Adam infected the whole human race with his sin nature, Christ was able, through the gift of his own spiritual life, to release all men from the condemnation of sin. Obviously, Adam and Christ were different. One prescribes genetic transference. The other prescribes spiritual transference. But they are common in the fact that they both are a form of universal transference of their own peculiar properties.

    Paul is saying that between Adam and Moses men were as guilty as either Adam or Moses. Adam was guilty because he broke a personal command from God, not to eat of the tree of knowledge. And Moses was made guilty under standards of the Law he was given for Israel.

    Men, between Adam and Moses, were just as guilty as Adam or Moses because they had inherited Adam's sin nature. And Christ, patterned after Adam, could equally make all men innocent, no matter what standard they have violated. It was a universal release from Adam's inherited guilt, whether a release from sins committed against personal commands, like Adam's sin, or sins committed against the Law of Moses, like Moses' sin. It was a release from *all sin* committed by our inherited sin nature, no matter what the standard.

    It's a bit convoluted, but Paul is "unique."

  5. #5

    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    So the question is, How was man saved from Adam until Moses ??
    Just as man is saved today: By GRACE through faith, but in anticipation of the finished work of Christ (see Hebrews 11).

    4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

    5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

    8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

    10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

    12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

    13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

    15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

    16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

    17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

    18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

    19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

    20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

    21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

    22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

    23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

    24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

    25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

    26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.


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    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    Just as man is saved today: By GRACE through faith, but in anticipation of the finished work of Christ (see Hebrews 11).

    4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

    5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

    8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

    10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

    12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

    13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

    15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

    16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

    17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

    18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

    19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

    20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

    21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

    22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

    23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

    24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

    25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

    26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.


    Hi and I believe your point #4 and it obvious that Abel received more truth and by faith Abel did it , a sacrifice as sin could not be IMPUTED as Rom 5:13 says and when faith is exercised , that person does God says to do !!

    The other question is , what about children who died early or in birth ?

    dan p

  7. #7

    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    The other question is , what about children who died early or in birth ?
    Since children are incapable of exercising saving faith, God saves them by His grace through the provision that He made through the blood of the Lamb of God. God already saw the finished work of Christ as an accomplished fact, since the Lamb of God was slain from BEFORE the foundation of the world.

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    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    Since children are incapable of exercising saving faith, God saves them by His grace through the provision that He made through the blood of the Lamb of God. God already saw the finished work of Christ as an accomplished fact, since the Lamb of God was slain from BEFORE the foundation of the world.
    Hi and I need a verse where it says that !!

    dan p

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    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    So the question is , How was man saved from Adam until Moses ??
    By faith .

  10. #10

    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Paul seems to be saying that sin existed in the world after Adam and Eve ate from the tree of Knowledge [Because sin entered the world].

    Sin existed before the law of Moses was given.

    People sinned in ways that were different than what Adam and eve sinned [who ate eating of the tree of knowledge] even though the law of Moses did not exist to specifically point out how they had sinned.

    And death also reigned from the time of Adam until Moses [Because the wages of sin is death].

    Adam was a pattern [form] of the coming one. He was man, created in the image of God. That was his pattern [form]. But he was sinful, unlike Christ Jesus who was born as a man [in the image of God], yet the difference is that Jesus Christ never sinned.


    (Phil 2:7 KJV) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    (2 Cor 5:21 KJV) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Ho to all and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam UNTIL Moses , even over the ones not having sinned after the LIKENESS of the transgression of Adam , who is a PATTERN of the coming (one ) .

    #1 , This is the last time the FREE WILL was used by man !!

    #2 The first time FREE WILL was used was bt angels and LUCIFER !!

    How were people saved from Adam until Moses ??

    #3 Some believe that there is only one gospel , how can that be ?

    #4 , Adam was the Pattern of being the head of the Old Creation !!

    #5 Now Christ is going to be the HEAD of th New Creation !!

    So the question is , How was man saved from Adam until Moses ??

    dan p

  11. #11

    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Hi and I need a verse where it says that !!
    Dan, please note (2 Corinthians 5:19):
    To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
    What does this mean?

    1. GOD WAS IN CHRIST -- The Mystery of God is that even though the Father and the Son are distinct from each other, the Father is in the Son, and the Son is in the Father.

    2. RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF -- reconciliation means that two enemies have put aside their enmity and there is peace between them. When Christ took upon Himself the sins of the world and paid their penalty in full, God's justice was fully satisfied and His wrath against sin was quenched. Therefore His enmity against sinners was put aside.

    3. NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES UNTO THEM -- since all our sins were paid for, we would be free from that penalty, provided we repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. But since children are incapable of doing so, their trespasses are not imputed to them (meaning they are not held to account). Why? Because Christ already paid for their sins.

    4. THE WORD OF RECONCILIATION -- grown sinners must now be reconciled to God -- we must all acknowledge unreservedly that we are sinners and also enemies of God, and that we need to be saved by God's grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption. That is why God commands all MEN (ADULT PEOPLE) everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30).

    If you are looking for an explicit verse that says all little children are saved by grace, you will not find it, because God expects us to also see what is implied in Scripture. so rest assured. Children can only be held accountable when they can understand the meaning of sin and the penalty for sins.

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    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    By faith .

    Hi and I lean your way , by faith BUT those after Adam had faith in what ??

    I believe the answer is in Gen 4:2-7 and that FAITH brought forth a blood sacrifice !!

    dan p

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    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    God Himself made the first sacrifice. What follows is done in response through faith.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    God Himself made the first sacrifice. What follows is done in response through faith.

    Hi and I am on another web site and many people today ONLY believe in one Gospel , so is there a gospel here in Genesis 4 ?

    dan p

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    Re: Rom 5:14 and it's meaning ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Hi and I am on another web site and many people today ONLY believe in one Gospel , so is there a gospel here in Genesis 4 ?

    dan p
    Grace is given by God in Genesis 3 when He covered Adam and Eve's nakedness (and all that implies). But grace came to them at a cost - the blood of a lamb that God provided. Genesis 4 is an offering given by humans in response to God's Grace.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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