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Thread: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

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    UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Hi to all and Acts 15:11 reads , But we believe through the GRACE of ( THE ) Lord Jesus Christ to be SAVED as they also !!

    #1 We see that that context is Peter , in verse 14 and the last time Peter / Simeon is mentioned in Acts as James has taken over in Acts 21:18 !!

    #2 , I see one that is keeping the Law of Moses , Peter !!

    #3, Peter is saying that the Jews are going to be SAVED as they ALSO !!

    #4 I believe we see 2 different Gospels here as Gal 2:7 HAS POINTED out , one THE UN- CIRCUMCISION GOSPEL that Paul is preaching !!

    #5 Then what Peter preached THE CIRCUMCISION message to the Jews !!

    Please , notice the the Greek ARTICLE ( THE ) and that means it is SPECIFIC , and means 2 different messages !!

    Their are 2 Gospels here are the same time BUT ONE is FADING AWAY as 2 Cor 3:13-16 reveals !!

    dan p

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    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    There is only one Gospel preached in ACTS. Peter, John, Paul and the rest all preached the SAME Gospel. That is why our New Testament has 27 books, not 8 (or possibly 9 for those who insist Paul wrote the Letter to Hebrews).
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    The problem with the Apostles, and the rest of newly converted Jews, was to set aside, not only what they knew God had given Moses 1500 years ago, but to set aside a means of justification before God that was ingrained from generation to generation over these 1,500 years. This is not easy. Let me give an example that wiil divide opinions. I grew up in a hot country and we wore sandals most of the year (except for school and sports). We NEVER wore socks with our sandals. Years later I migrated to a central European country. The locals, and nearly all of Germany, wore socks with their sandals. Let's not waste time discussing why, but after nearly 40 years in central Europe I STILL cannot wear socks and sandals and could NEVER will. What is that?

    "That" is what we call "culture", and to change culture is almost impossible. It has nothing to do with what is right or wrong in this case. It is a matter of CULTURE! So how could the Jew, who had listened to Moses for 1,500 years and formed his social and legal structure around him, suddenly discard him? I tell you, it was almost impossible. Let's look at two pillars of the early Church - Peter and Paul. Our Lord Jesus had told His disciples over and over again that a time was coming when the Law as a means of justification was to be annulled. He told parables of Old Wine and a new Wineskin. His sermon of the Mount overthrew Moses in certain aspects. The thundering voice of God on the Mount of Transfiguration clearly said that ONLY Christ was to be "heard" and Moses and the Prophets (represented by Elijah) were "OUT". But what does Peter and Paul do LONG AFTER they knew the truth?

    Peter, called by God to go to the Gentiles, even with a vision of a sheet full of unclean animals to the Jew, almost refuses to go. The reaction to him going to the Gentiles in Acts 11 was "CONTENTION" by the others CHRISTIANS (Act.11:2). Then, years later, Peter, preaching, teaching, living with and eating with Gentiles for the gospel's sake, saw some ex-Jews coming and quickly separated himself from the Gentile Christians out of fear of the ex-Jews (Gal.2:11-13). And what does the Holy Spirit think of that? Verse 14 says he, "... walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, ... .!"

    Paul, trained by Jesus Christ privately for 14 years, away from any other Apostles, knew the truth (Gal.1:15 - 2:1). In his writings, all inspired by the Holy Spirit, Paul writes that to test a prophet he must be checked by other prophets. But in Acts 21:1-11 he is warned in two different places by the Holy Spirit, by accredited prophets, with other prophets present, that he should not go up to Jerusalem. Added to this, Paul went "Bound" in his spirit (Act.20:22) when he taught that if the Lord was was with him he would have "liberty" and "peace" of spirit (2nd Cor.3:17; Phil.4:7-9). Added to this, Paul had already, in Acts 15, hotly disputed that the Law was NOT a part of Christianity. So why would Paul go up to Jerusalem for (1) a Feast of the Jews, and (2) to complete a vow made under Law?

    I tell you. The early Church, until the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD, had massive problems to divorce themselves from 1,500 years of Law, culture and traditions.

  4. #4

    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The problem with the Apostles, and the rest of newly converted Jews, was to set aside, not only what they knew God had given Moses 1500 years ago, but to set aside a means of justification before God that was ingrained from generation to generation over these 1,500 years. This is not easy. Let me give an example that wiil divide opinions. I grew up in a hot country and we wore sandals most of the year (except for school and sports). We NEVER wore socks with our sandals. Years later I migrated to a central European country. The locals, and nearly all of Germany, wore socks with their sandals. Let's not waste time discussing why, but after nearly 40 years in central Europe I STILL cannot wear socks and sandals and could NEVER will. What is that?

    "That" is what we call "culture", and to change culture is almost impossible. It has nothing to do with what is right or wrong in this case. It is a matter of CULTURE! So how could the Jew, who had listened to Moses for 1,500 years and formed his social and legal structure around him, suddenly discard him? I tell you, it was almost impossible. Let's look at two pillars of the early Church - Peter and Paul. Our Lord Jesus had told His disciples over and over again that a time was coming when the Law as a means of justification was to be annulled. He told parables of Old Wine and a new Wineskin. His sermon of the Mount overthrew Moses in certain aspects. The thundering voice of God on the Mount of Transfiguration clearly said that ONLY Christ was to be "heard" and Moses and the Prophets (represented by Elijah) were "OUT". But what does Peter and Paul do LONG AFTER they knew the truth?

    Peter, called by God to go to the Gentiles, even with a vision of a sheet full of unclean animals to the Jew, almost refuses to go. The reaction to him going to the Gentiles in Acts 11 was "CONTENTION" by the others CHRISTIANS (Act.11:2). Then, years later, Peter, preaching, teaching, living with and eating with Gentiles for the gospel's sake, saw some ex-Jews coming and quickly separated himself from the Gentile Christians out of fear of the ex-Jews (Gal.2:11-13). And what does the Holy Spirit think of that? Verse 14 says he, "... walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, ... .!"

    Paul, trained by Jesus Christ privately for 14 years, away from any other Apostles, knew the truth (Gal.1:15 - 2:1). In his writings, all inspired by the Holy Spirit, Paul writes that to test a prophet he must be checked by other prophets. But in Acts 21:1-11 he is warned in two different places by the Holy Spirit, by accredited prophets, with other prophets present, that he should not go up to Jerusalem. Added to this, Paul went "Bound" in his spirit (Act.20:22) when he taught that if the Lord was was with him he would have "liberty" and "peace" of spirit (2nd Cor.3:17; Phil.4:7-9). Added to this, Paul had already, in Acts 15, hotly disputed that the Law was NOT a part of Christianity. So why would Paul go up to Jerusalem for (1) a Feast of the Jews, and (2) to complete a vow made under Law?

    I tell you. The early Church, until the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD, had massive problems to divorce themselves from 1,500 years of Law, culture and traditions.
    Great point! I don't think God was surprised that it would be that difficult for the Jews following Jesus to turn away from the Law completely. This seems to have been a progressive thing--a progressive correction.

    So why would God have done it this way? For one thing, it was because of our sinful flesh that the Jews found this a nearly impossible task. Their flawed and weak flesh *wanted* to continue in their comfort zone, seemingly controlling their own salvation, their own justification.

    But they should've know that justification was fleeting, and salvation less than satisfying. One restoration led to another judgment, historically. What would end this endless cycle of failure and restoration under the Law?

    Well this radical shift from Law to Christ required a death to all that we have relied on in our flesh. If we were confident of anything we would have to abandon that. Nothing we do is satisfying regardless. We will get sick and die!

    So what the gospel of the New Testament brought was the *necessity* of a human shift away from what naturally dissatisfies us. As much as it takes us out of our comfort zone it does speak to the human need. And it requires, as it should, a radical change away from ourselves and our own dependencies to God and to His promises.

    But nicely put!

  5. #5

    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Hi to all and Acts 15:11 reads , But we believe through the GRACE of ( THE ) Lord Jesus Christ to be SAVED as they also !!

    #1 We see that that context is Peter , in verse 14 and the last time Peter / Simeon is mentioned in Acts as James has taken over in Acts 21:18 !!

    #2 , I see one that is keeping the Law of Moses , Peter !!

    #3, Peter is saying that the Jews are going to be SAVED as they ALSO !!

    #4 I believe we see 2 different Gospels here as Gal 2:7 HAS POINTED out , one THE UN- CIRCUMCISION GOSPEL that Paul is preaching !!

    #5 Then what Peter preached THE CIRCUMCISION message to the Jews !!

    Please , notice the the Greek ARTICLE ( THE ) and that means it is SPECIFIC , and means 2 different messages !!

    Their are 2 Gospels here are the same time BUT ONE is FADING AWAY as 2 Cor 3:13-16 reveals !!

    dan p
    There is no gospel for the circumcised separate from the gospel of the uncircumcised. The gospel presented, while Jesus was still under the era of Law, was of course tailored by the requirements of the Law. But following the cross that gospel message was packaged in NT terms. The former "packaging" was gone!

    There can only ever be a single gospel. Period.

  6. #6

    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    There is no gospel for the circumcised separate from the gospel of the uncircumcised. The gospel presented, while Jesus was still under the era of Law, was of course tailored by the requirements of the Law. But following the cross that gospel message was packaged in NT terms. The former "packaging" was gone!

    There can only ever be a single gospel. Period.
    Amen. Great post.
    9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10 So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith. - Galatians 6:9-10 NASB

  7. #7

    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    There is only one Gospel preached in ACTS. Peter, John, Paul and the rest all preached the SAME Gospel. That is why our New Testament has 27 books, not 8 (or possibly 9 for those who insist Paul wrote the Letter to Hebrews).

    Exactly Keck. Excellent post.
    9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10 So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith. - Galatians 6:9-10 NASB

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    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Hi to all and Acts 15:11 reads , But we believe through the GRACE of ( THE ) Lord Jesus Christ to be SAVED as they also !!

    #1 We see that that context is Peter , in verse 14 and the last time Peter / Simeon is mentioned in Acts as James has taken over in Acts 21:18 !!

    #2 , I see one that is keeping the Law of Moses , Peter !!

    #3, Peter is saying that the Jews are going to be SAVED as they ALSO !!

    #4 I believe we see 2 different Gospels here as Gal 2:7 HAS POINTED out , one THE UN- CIRCUMCISION GOSPEL that Paul is preaching !!

    #5 Then what Peter preached THE CIRCUMCISION message to the Jews !!

    Please , notice the the Greek ARTICLE ( THE ) and that means it is SPECIFIC , and means 2 different messages !!

    Their are 2 Gospels here are the same time BUT ONE is FADING AWAY as 2 Cor 3:13-16 reveals !!

    dan p
    Dan, where are you getting this two gospel theory? Are you reading a book or a website?

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    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by CadyandZoe View Post
    Dan, where are you getting this two gospel theory? Are you reading a book or a website?


    Hi and in Gal 2:7 it is called Gospel of THE UN-CIRCUMCISION , in verse 8 it is to Gentiles !!

    In verse 7 the message that Peter preached , THE CIRCUMCISION oe to Jews !!~

    Notice the Greek article THE is used and the is SPECIFIC to what Paul and Peter are to preach >

    Then in Gal 3:8 there was a GOSPE; preached to Abram !!

    In Rev 14:6 we see the EVERLASTING GOSPEL to be preached during the Great Tribulation !!

    I count 4 gospels !!

    dan p

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    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Hi and in Gal 2:7 it is called Gospel of THE UN-CIRCUMCISION , in verse 8 it is to Gentiles !!

    In verse 7 the message that Peter preached , THE CIRCUMCISION oe to Jews !!~

    Notice the Greek article THE is used and the is SPECIFIC to what Paul and Peter are to preach >

    Then in Gal 3:8 there was a GOSPE; preached to Abram !!

    In Rev 14:6 we see the EVERLASTING GOSPEL to be preached during the Great Tribulation !!

    I count 4 gospels !!

    dan p
    Dan,

    Have you heard the Fable from India called "The blind man and the elephant?" I don't think you have four gospels here. I think you have one gospel looking at it from four different sides.

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    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Hi and in Gal 2:7 it is called Gospel of THE UN-CIRCUMCISION , in verse 8 it is to Gentiles !!

    In verse 7 the message that Peter preached , THE CIRCUMCISION oe to Jews !!~

    Notice the Greek article THE is used and the is SPECIFIC to what Paul and Peter are to preach >

    Then in Gal 3:8 there was a GOSPE; preached to Abram !!

    In Rev 14:6 we see the EVERLASTING GOSPEL to be preached during the Great Tribulation !!

    I count 4 gospels !!

    dan p
    You have a point. There are several gospels. In ...
    • Acts 20:24; "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God."
    • Matthew 24:14; "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
    • 2nd Timothy 2:8; "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:"
    • Revelation 14:6; "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"

    Each of these addresses something different, or better said, an aspect of the OVERALL gospel. The "gospel of grace" is about grace extended to lost men, while "the gospel of the Kingdom" is about who gets to rule the earth when our Lord returns, and is connected to WORKS. "My gospel" in 2nd Timothy 2:8 concerns Israel because Jesus "seed of David" pertains to the throne of Israel. And the "everlasting gospel" is defined in the next verse and is taught by angels, not men, and is certainly not about grace, but about "fear".

    But the verses in Galatians that you offered concern WHO was given the duty to preach THE SAME GOSPEL to which nation. The twelve Apostles are given the duty to preach Christ as Messiah to the nation of Israel, and Paul is given the duty to preach Christ as the Man anointed to take away sins and be King of kings of all nations - basically the same thing.

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    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    You have a point. There are several gospels. In ...
    • Acts 20:24; "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God."
    • Matthew 24:14; "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
    • 2nd Timothy 2:8; "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:"
    • Revelation 14:6; "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"

    Each of these addresses something different, or better said, an aspect of the OVERALL gospel. The "gospel of grace" is about grace extended to lost men, while "the gospel of the Kingdom" is about who gets to rule the earth when our Lord returns, and is connected to WORKS. "My gospel" in 2nd Timothy 2:8 concerns Israel because Jesus "seed of David" pertains to the throne of Israel. And the "everlasting gospel" is defined in the next verse and is taught by angels, not men, and is certainly not about grace, but about "fear".

    But the verses in Galatians that you offered concern WHO was given the duty to preach THE SAME GOSPEL to which nation. The twelve Apostles are given the duty to preach Christ as Messiah to the nation of Israel, and Paul is given the duty to preach Christ as the Man anointed to take away sins and be King of kings of all nations - basically the same thing.

    Hi and the Greek ARTICLE ( THE ) specifics who's gospel is who's !!

    In Gal 2:7 Paul's is called THE GOSPEL of the UN-CIRCUMCISION !!

    In Gal 2& Peter's is just called THE CIRCUMCISION !!

    Notice that Peter's is not called gospel as Paul's was in Gal 2:7 WHY ?/

    Because , at this time , Peter's message of CIRCUMCISION is FADING AWAY as 2 Cor 3:13-16 says !!

    dan p

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    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Hi and the Greek ARTICLE ( THE ) specifics who's gospel is who's !!

    In Gal 2:7 Paul's is called THE GOSPEL of the UN-CIRCUMCISION !!

    In Gal 2& Peter's is just called THE CIRCUMCISION !!

    Notice that Peter's is not called gospel as Paul's was in Gal 2:7 WHY ?/

    Because , at this time , Peter's message of CIRCUMCISION is FADING AWAY as 2 Cor 3:13-16 says !!

    dan p
    Peter did not preach circumcision. Ask Cornelius.

    There is only one Gospel for all people.

  14. #14

    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by dan p View Post
    Their are 2 Gospels here are the same time BUT ONE is FADING AWAY as 2 Cor 3:13-16 reveals !!
    Dan,
    Another one of your weird conclusions. Sit back, relax, and learn some basic Gospel and Bible truth.

    There is only ONE GOSPEL from Genesis to Revelation. Christ died for our sins according to the Scripture, and He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.

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    Re: UNDERSTANDING ACTS 15:11 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    Dan,
    Another one of your weird conclusions. Sit back, relax, and learn some basic Gospel and Bible truth.

    There is only ONE GOSPEL from Genesis to Revelation. Christ died for our sins according to the Scripture, and He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.

    Hi and I took a deep breath , and here is 2 Cor 3:13 , And not even as Moses ( who ) was placing a VAIL upon his face , for the children of Israel NOT to Gaze towards END oh that being ABOLISHED !!

    The Greek verb WHICH PUT / TITHEMI is in the Greek IMPERECT TENSE which Moses put the VAIL on , only one time and took it off as the Glory that shown on his face FADED AWAY !!

    And in verse 15 and DURING Paul's ministry when Moses is read a VAIL is lon their heart !!

    Are you saying that 2 Cor 3:13 is wrong as the Jews were practicing the Law EVEN as late as Acts 21:20 and at that time Paul was preaching to Jews the CHRIST / MESSIAH and also to Gentiles and than to KINGS as Acts 9:15 has written !!

    Think about it ??

    dan p

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