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Thread: The heart of the earth, is it Jerusalem, or the grave?

  1. #16

    Re: The heart of the earth, is it Jerusalem, or the grave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
    Of course God can do anything. He could have kept Jonah alive. He could keep a person alive who swallowed a nuclear bomb. Nothing is impossible for God, but that isn't the point.

    If you think Jonah didn't die, are you suggesting Jesus didn't really die on the cross either?
    This is purely non sequitur. Jesus drew upon the example of Jonah to show *by analogy* that he would die and spend some time in death before rising again. The prophetic allusion to Christ obviously does not require an exact parallel reality--otherwise, it would not be a prophetic allusion!

    Joseph was sold by his brothers into Egypt, alluding to Christ being "sold" by his brothers, the Jews, at the cross. The fact Joseph was not crucified does not mean his experience did not allude to Jesus' cross!

    There are many such examples. The fact that Jeremiah was thrown into a cistern as a symbol of Christ's death also did not require that Jeremiah actually die. The intent was to kill him, but he did not have to actually die to allude to Christ's own rejection and death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony P
    How do you deal with the fact that Jonah prayed from the belly of Sheol and was brought up from the pit? Is this prayer not the prophecy of Jesus' prayer after death?

    Jonah's death and resurrection after three days and three nights is the whole point Jesus was making, I believe.

  2. #17

    Re: The heart of the earth, is it Jerusalem, or the grave?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Matthew 12.40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


    This seems to speak of the grave.
    Not at all. The body of Christ was in a TOMB (not a grave), and that too one which belonged to a rich man and had never been used before.

    But where were His soul and spirit for three days and three nights? In "the lower parts of the earth" (the heart of the heart) also called Sheol in the OT and Hades in the NT.

    For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; [Sheol] neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psalm 16:10)

    Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, [Hades] neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Acts 2:27

    Christ entered Hades as soon as He "gave up the Ghost". That is the section of Hades where the souls and spirits of the righteous dead were waiting for Him, and also where He proclaimed His victory over sin, death, Hell, Hades, and Satan (also called "Abraham's bosom" by Christ).

    Thus Peter says that Christ "preach to the spirits which were in prison", and possibly His message was heart by the spirits in Tartarus, as well as the souls and spirits of the unrighteous dead in Hades. In other words, Christ was in "the netherworld".

  3. #18

    Re: The heart of the earth, is it Jerusalem, or the grave?

    Why did Jesus say to the person next to Him dying on the cross;'...today you will be with me in paradise.' Are you sure he went to hell for 3 days?

  4. #19
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    Re: The heart of the earth, is it Jerusalem, or the grave?

    Quote Originally Posted by tea View Post
    Why did Jesus say to the person next to Him dying on the cross;'...today you will be with me in paradise.' Are you sure he went to hell for 3 days?
    Jesus was 'in hell' in the sense of man's sinful world virtually all his life. But He was in the HEART of the earth ('geh' - 'earth' or 'hell') the last "THREE DAYS" of his earth's hellish suffering, death, and burial.

    Jesus tasted hell alive. "God loosed the pains of death", with death; and by his Burial began Christ's exaltation. "Therefore, let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God hath made that same Jesus whom ye have crucified [and killed] both Lord and Christ."

    "God raised up Christ ... because it was not possible that He should be holden of it : the pains of death." "Therefore did my heart rejoice and my tongue was glad ... for I saw the LORD always before my face ... moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope." This was Jesus on the cross while alive. "Seeing this before of the Resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."

    Jesus' hell was alive before He died; not after He had died and his glorification had begun.

  5. #20

    Re: The heart of the earth, is it Jerusalem, or the grave?

    It surprises me that, considering your question, that no one has discussed whether Jerusalem is at the heart of the earth. *[[Eze 5:5]] KJV* Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.There are no scriptures that says that the souls of dead men reside in the heart of the earth. The righteous for sure dwell in paradise, to where God and the tree of life are, which is separated from the wicked by a great gulf fixed. *[[Rev 2:7]] KJV* He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.*[[Luk 16:26]] KJV* And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.Everyone seems obsessed with the "heart of the earth" referring to the realm of the dead and that Jesus spent 3 days and nights in the realm of the dead. If one were to consider all of the cities of the world and measure the distance from any one unto all of the others, and then sum up the distances, you will find that Jerusalem is the shortest distance to all of the other places. It is the geographical center of the world. When the New Jerusalem comes, sitting some 1500 miles high, it will be visible to 2/3 of the current geographical land masses, being visible from about 4000 miles away. Jerusalem is at the heart of the earth! Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book! GB

  6. #21

    Re: The heart of the earth, is it Jerusalem, or the grave?

    Quote Originally Posted by tea View Post
    Why did Jesus say to the person next to Him dying on the cross;'...today you will be with me in paradise.' Are you sure he went to hell for 3 days?
    Not to "hell" but to "Hades". Big difference.

    However, since Jesus is God, even though He was in Hades for 3 days and 3 nights, He already saw this repentant thief in Paradise as an accomplished fact. And that is really the point of that promise by Christ. It did not nullify what needed to be accomplished in Hades, which was also to take all the OT saints with Him to the New Jerusalem (where Paradise is located).

  7. #22
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    Re: The heart of the earth, is it Jerusalem, or the grave?

    Quote Originally Posted by goldenboy View Post
    It surprises me that, considering your question, that no one has discussed whether Jerusalem is at the heart of the earth. *[[Eze 5:5]] KJV* Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.There are no scriptures that says that the souls of dead men reside in the heart of the earth. The righteous for sure dwell in paradise, to where God and the tree of life are, which is separated from the wicked by a great gulf fixed. *[[Rev 2:7]] KJV* He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.*[[Luk 16:26]] KJV* And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.Everyone seems obsessed with the "heart of the earth" referring to the realm of the dead and that Jesus spent 3 days and nights in the realm of the dead. If one were to consider all of the cities of the world and measure the distance from any one unto all of the others, and then sum up the distances, you will find that Jerusalem is the shortest distance to all of the other places. It is the geographical center of the world. When the New Jerusalem comes, sitting some 1500 miles high, it will be visible to 2/3 of the current geographical land masses, being visible from about 4000 miles away. Jerusalem is at the heart of the earth! Blessings to all who keeps the saying and the prophecy of his book! GB

    Re:
    “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”

    The “churches” are told something about “Him that overcometh”. Virtually no church has been an overcomer, because we who are the churches all are fallible and failing sinners. But Christ is the Overcomer, and this Scripture in the first place is about Jesus Christ the Overcomer.
    Where did Christ overcome?
    Where Adam (the Church) failed to overcome.
    Where then, did Adam fail or where was he overcome?
    In “paradise” also called Eden and Wilderness or Garden / Wilderness of Eden.

    Therefore, Where did Christ overcome?
    Where Adam fought and failed; where Adam and Eve were tempted and decided for themselves and sinned ---where man FELL in sin.
    THERE, Jesus Triumphed, and “triumphed greatly”, because “the LORD is a Man-of-War; the LORD triumphed gloriously”.

    Jesus says to the sinner at his side: “Today, you will be with ME, in paradise”… and my Eden will be your Wilderness where you failed Me; but I will not fail you, just come with Me and enter in with Me into My Paradise, My HELL and your glory “with Me”.

    “God stopped the Pains-of-Death”. Jesus alive died the death of death. And was rewarded by the Father so that “also my flesh shall rest (rested) in hope”… in hope of “The Resurrection of Life”: which “I am.”

    Unless the Seed (Christ) falls into the ground (dies) it (He) shall stay one; but if it dies it (Christ) will become many (saved). Therefore Christ triumphed in that He died, and the Father honoured Him in that He let Him fall and like a seed be sowed in order that He should “know what is the riches of His Inheritance in the saints, and what the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the WORKING OF HIS MIGHTY POWER WHICH GOD WROUGHT IN CHRIST WHEN HE RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD … and raised us up together with Him and made us sit together in heavenly exaltation IN CHRIST JESUS.”

    “That in the ages to come God might show the exceeding riches OF HIS GRACE IN KINDNESS TOWARD US…” malefactors… “having been crucified together with Him” when He assured and comforted the murderer on the cross next to Him, “I am telling you, you, today will be with Me, in paradise” and with Me and in Me will share victory and triumph and glory … in Paradise Lost, REGAINED!

  8. #23
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    Re: The heart of the earth, is it Jerusalem, or the grave?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Jesus drew upon the example of Jonah to show *by analogy* that he would die and spend some time in death before rising again.
    True. And Jonah (proleptically) 'drew upon' the analogy of Christ, Who, through conscious and willing obedience, lived the pains and fear of sin and death, and actually, alive, and living it through, died, "giving his soul into the hands of the Father" and "God, loosening the pains of death" for Jesus to 'spend some time in death and in his grave', honoured and exalted already in that "his soul was not left in hell", and "his flesh saw no corruption in the grave", 'before rising again', God "seating Christ, resting Him up again at his own right hand in heavenly places" of His Holy Throne in the heart of the earth: THERE, AND THEN, INSIDE the unseeable glory of Christ's grave: the exclusivity and Glory of God in Full Fellowship of Father Son and Holy Spirit.

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