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Thread: Can Salvation be lost?

  1. #1
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    Can Salvation be lost?

    Do you believe salvation can be lost? If yes, what are the circumstance(s)?

    If you believe it can't, please give your reasons.

  2. #2
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    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Jesus said,

    "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
    John 10:27*-‬30

    There are other passages of Scripture with I could cite, but this is an excellent one to show the permanency of Salvation. I have a great Saviour

  3. #3

    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Do you believe salvation can be lost? If yes, what are the circumstance(s)?
    If salvation was like a set of keys it could be lost. Since it is not, it cannot be "lost"

    If you believe it can't, please give your reasons.
    Let's keep in real simple. SALVATION IS CHRIST IN YOU. How can anyone "lose" Christ? He becomes an integral part of the believer, and the believer becomes an integral part of His Body.

    Sin and doubt in the believer's life are separate issues, and dealt with separately.

  4. #4

    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Take 2 Peter 2:20ff:

    (ESV)For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

    The first state was a lost state-- not saved, because they were defiled by the world. But the second state is even worse than the first, because they now know the way of righteousness and have turned away from it (verse 21).

    See, maybe people want to believe you can't be lost once you're saved so you can do what you want and believe that "Oh, I can never be lost! I can do whatever I want!"

    It's rather not an issue of opinion, but of sound doctrine. You shouldn't make it into a matter of opinion.
    "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."
    Prov 15:3

  5. #5

    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Do you believe salvation can be lost? If yes, what are the circumstance(s)?

    If you believe it can't, please give your reasons.
    Eternal salvation cannot be lost. Otherwise, it would not be called *eternal* salvation. It would better, otherwise, to have been called *conditional* salvation.

    That being said I do think people can be entered into the rolls of Christian salvation without having a full assurance of their salvation. That's because becoming a Christian is as simple as accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. However, some do abandon their Christianity after a time. Some abandon it for all time. And others only backslide. I've seen this.

    I'm a Predestinarian. But at what point a person "perseveres" in their salvation I don't know. It may be intuitive and a matter of an initial mind set. Those who make a tentative commitment know what it is that keeps them from making a full commitment.

  6. #6

    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua1 View Post
    Take 2 Peter 2:20ff: (ESV)For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
    Joshua,
    The context makes it quite clear that this is speaking about false prophets and false teachers, who are not saved. So they pretend to be saved, but really are not. No genuine Christian goes around saying that now that he is saved he ca live as he pleases.

  7. #7
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    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Do you believe salvation can be lost? If yes, what are the circumstance(s)?

    If you believe it can't, please give your reasons.
    When God made man He made him for four reasons. They are;
    1. To be in the image and likeness of God so that whatever he did or said would reflect God
    2. To be the new ruler of this earth with its sea and sky after the previous ruler, Satan, failed and rebelled against the great King, Jehovah
    3. To be a "help meet" for the Man Jesus. "Help meet" means "a companion up to the standard of"
    4. To fence about, and bring to order, a place where a Holy God would not be defiled when He met with His creature, man

    In God's recovery of His plan with man, recovery to all four points is called "salvation to the uttermost" (Heb.7:25). The word uttermost, even without added information implies that a man can be saved IN PART. That is, he can be restored in one or more points above, and be called "saved", but if he misses one or more of them he can be called "saved" by not "saved to the uttermost."

    God's full salvation, in a very short summary, is;
    • Man's sin and sins must be judicially put away by a viable Substitute - Jesus the Man by the shedding of blood
    • The spirit of man must undergo an additional, and new, and heavenly, and spiritual birth via the Holy Spirit (Jn.3:3-6)
    • The soul of man, so corrupted by the desires of a fallen flesh, must undergo a transforming work by the Holy Spirit (2nd Cor.3:18; Rom.12:2)
    • The body of man must be resurrected by the Holy Spirit (Rom.8:23)
    • The man must become a co-king of the earth, sea and sky with Christ when He sets up His heavenly Kingdom on earth (Matt.19:23-26)

    The whole process is summarized in 1st Peter 1:2-9. There we have;
    verse 2 - the blood of Jesus
    verse 3 - we are "begotten" - through a rebirth via God (Jn.1:12)
    verse 3 - resurrection via Jesus Who has "become" the "life-giving Spirit" (1st Cor.15:45)
    verse 4 - for an inheritance - the earth (Rom.4:13)
    verse 5 - God's keeping power during the journey
    verse 6 - a journey with trials
    verse 7 - trials that purify and temper your soul
    verse 9 - "Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

    And it is in the matter of the transformation, or "salvation" of the soul, that all the warnings to Christians go out. The rebirth is a matter of FAITH (Jn.1:12). The resurrection of the body is guaranteed (1st Cor.15:22) - ours with "celestial glory" (1st Cor.15:40-42). BUT WHAT OF THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE SOUL FROM A SELF-SERVING AND CORRUPT PART TO A GOD-SERVING AND GOD-REFLECTING PART?

    It is the transformation of the soul that needs the man's cooperation and effort with God's power, that can be missed. In Philippians 2:12-13, we have the TWO-PART EFFORT for the "salvation of the soul" - man's and God's. It reads;
    12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
    13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."


    It is this part of salvation that a Christian can miss. And it is this part of salvation that makes a Christian eligible and qualified to be a co-king with Christ in the Millennium. All the warning that go out to a Christian concern the "GAINING" or "LOSS" of the Kingdom of Heaven. That is, when Christ returns and judges us, He will either find us good and faithful (nothing to do with faith), or He will find us "workers of iniquity", "wicked" and "slothful". These last are all natural fruit of an un-transformed SOUL and disqualify a man or woman from being "saved to the uttermost". It was this "salvation" that our Lord Jesus alluded to in Matthew 19:23-26 - that of ENTERING THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN when it is set up on earth after Christ's return.

    • The rebirth CANNOT BE OVERTURNED
    • Our sonship to God CANNOT BE OVERTURNED
    • Our being partakers of the divine nature CANNOT BE OVERTURNED
    • We CANNOT go to the Lake of Fire
    • BUT WE CAN FORFEIT OUR INHERITANCE - THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN when it is set up on earth and Christ chooses His future kings. After the full salvation that God has bought at great price, and offered freely to the Christian, he/she can enjoy all that there is from God's side, BUT END UP A DISGRACE BECAUSE THEY REFUSED TO "LOVE NOT THEIR SOUL-LIFE UNTO DEATH" (Rev.12:11 - lit. Gk.)!

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    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    [*]To fence about, and bring to order, a place where a Holy God would not be defiled when He met with His creature, man[/LIST]
    Excellent well thought out post. But wanted to throw something out there for your consideration. Remember the woman with the issue of blood? Everything she touched was made unclean. And anyone that touched the things she touched such as her clothing or bed covers became unclean.

    Yet, when she touched Jesus, He was not defiled nor made unclean. Rather, she was made clean!

    Grace to you

    Mark
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Excellent well thought out post. But wanted to throw something out there for your consideration. Remember the woman with the issue of blood? Everything she touched was made unclean. And anyone that touched the things she touched such as her clothing or bed covers became unclean.

    Yet, when she touched Jesus, He was not defiled nor made unclean. Rather, she was made clean!

    Grace to you

    Mark
    A most important point. A "Garment" in Parable in the Bible is always the "works" of that person (see Ps.73:6, 109:18, 132:9; 1st Pet.5:5; Rev.19:8, etc). The woman had two problems. (1) She had constant menstruation and (2) thus was constantly unclean (Lev.15:19). This could have serious consequences for the husband and the wife (Lev.20:18). So she no doubt had either never married - a tragedy in Israel, or she had been divorced by her husband because they could never have legal sex. So she needed a TWOFOLD salvation. She needed to have her bleeding stemmed, and she needed to be made clean. It is only by the WORKS of Christ that we can be made ritually clean, as our Lord did in John 13 and as reported again in 1st Corinthians 6.11 and Hebrews 10:22.

  10. #10
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    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    A most important point. A "Garment" in Parable in the Bible is always the "works" of that person (see Ps.73:6, 109:18, 132:9; 1st Pet.5:5; Rev.19:8, etc). The woman had two problems. (1) She had constant menstruation and (2) thus was constantly unclean (Lev.15:19). This could have serious consequences for the husband and the wife (Lev.20:18). So she no doubt had either never married - a tragedy in Israel, or she had been divorced by her husband because they could never have legal sex. So she needed a TWOFOLD salvation. She needed to have her bleeding stemmed, and she needed to be made clean. It is only by the WORKS of Christ that we can be made ritually clean, as our Lord did in John 13 and as reported again in 1st Corinthians 6.11 and Hebrews 10:22.
    Amen! So when the Lord Jesus touches us, or we touch Him, he does not become defiled, rather, we become clean. IMO, God does not need to worry about defiling Himself. He cannot be for whatever He touches becomes clean. But this does not happen outside of faith and grace.

    And how about this reason for why God made man... He wanted a vast family! Love wants someone to love. Within that family, each has an assignment. My personal view is that God did not create us for the assignment, but for the purpose of pleasing Him as He loves us and we love Him back. But within that purpose, are many assignments.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewhenry View Post
    Jesus said,

    "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
    John 10:27*-‬30

    There are other passages of Scripture with I could cite, but this is an excellent one to show the permanency of Salvation. I have a great Saviour
    By "permanency" you allude that salvation cannot be lost?

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    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Excellent well thought out post. But wanted to throw something out there for your consideration. Remember the woman with the issue of blood? Everything she touched was made unclean. And anyone that touched the things she touched such as her clothing or bed covers became unclean.

    Yet, when she touched Jesus, He was not defiled nor made unclean. Rather, she was made clean!

    Grace to you

    Mark

    This is an awesome post and an awesome explanation of the word of God ! Would rep ya, but I need to spread some around before I rep you again !

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    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    In God's recovery of His plan with man, recovery to all four points is called "salvation to the uttermost" (Heb.7:25). The word uttermost, even without added information implies that a man can be saved IN PART. That is, he can be restored in one or more points above, and be called "saved", but if he misses one or more of them he can be called "saved" by not "saved to the uttermost."
    Your explanation of how a man can be saved "in part" is confusing to me. For example, What part of the man is saved ? What happens to the part that isn't ? This doctrine is dividing man into spiritual pieces. Do you also believe in many Gospels ?

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    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Eternal salvation cannot be lost. Otherwise, it would not be called *eternal* salvation. It would better, otherwise, to have been called *conditional* salvation.

    That being said I do think people can be entered into the roles of Christian salvation without having a full assurance of their salvation. That's because becoming a Christian is as simple as accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. However, some do abandon their Christianity after a time. Some abandon it for all time. And others only backslide. I've seen this.

    I'm a Predestinarian. But at what point a person "perseveres" in their salvation I don't know. It may be intuitive and a matter of an initial mind set. Those who make a tentative commitment know what it is that keeps them from making a full commitment.
    I started this OP to challenge our views on the concept of salvation. opinions expressed so far, have been interesting. I will cite a couple of passages and if you will be kind enough to explain how they *fit* your belief that "eternal salvation" cannot be lost, I will appreciate it so much.

    1. 1 Tim 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
    1 Tim 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

    What is the faith good conscience believers are enjoined to uphold? I would argue they are the precepts of Christ wherein lies our salvation. And what happens when a believer "puts this away" (turn their back on this)? Paul said, "they are made shipwreck". What is your understanding of *shipwreck* here?

    2. Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

    When the righteous, the believer with salvation backslides into sin as do the wicked, his righteousness shall not be remembered anymore. In his sin shall die. Once again, please explain how the above lines up with your understanding that "eternal salvation cannot be lost"?

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    Re: Can Salvation be lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel567 View Post
    Joshua,
    The context makes it quite clear that this is speaking about false prophets and false teachers, who are not saved. So they pretend to be saved, but really are not. No genuine Christian goes around saying that now that he is saved he ca live as he pleases.
    Are you seriously suggesting that those apostles who followed Jesus and Paul and later abandoned them were NOT initially saved?
    Are you alluding that *some* those who like a sow, turns back to wallow in the mire were not saved when they first came to faith? Because if this is your understanding, then you're very very wrong.

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