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Thread: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

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    ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.


    Jewish historian Josephus wrote that “the greatest part of the Roman garrison was raised out of Syria; and being thus related to the Syrian part, they were ready to assist it.” He wrote that “Vespasian sent his son Titus … into Syria, where he gathered together the Roman forces, with a considerable number of auxiliaries from the kings in that neighborhood.” Additionally he wrote: “Malchus also, the king of Arabia, sent a thousand horsemen, besides 5,000 footmen.”

    Now let’s turn to Josephus to find out what happened at the storming of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
    The Jews were holed up within the walled city. It was under siege. The intent was that the Romans would take the city, and especially the Temple, without terrible destruction. They were going to starve out the Jews.
    By the time the Jews resorted to cannibalism inside Jerusalem, thousands tried to exit the city and surrender to the Roman-Arab forces.
    Josephus reports in his own words: “The multitude of the Arabians, with the Syrians, cut up those that came out as supplicants, and searched their bellies (looking for gold they had swallowed). Nor does it seem to me that any misery befell the Jews that was more terrible than this, since in one night’s time about 2,000 of these deserters were thus dissected.”
    Finally, after the Romans and these Middle Eastern provincial forces of Rome broke through the city walls and captured the Temple, it was set on fire.
    Here’s Josephus’ account: “Now a certain person came running to Titus, and told him of this fire … whereupon he rose up in great haste, and, as he was, ran to the holy house, in order to have a stop put to the fire; after him followed all of his commanders, and after them followed the several legions, in great astonishment; so there was a great clamor and tumult raised, as was natural upon the disorderly motion of so great an army. Then did Caesar, both by calling to the soldiers that were fighting, with a loud voice, and by giving a signal to them with his right hand, order them to quench the fire.”
    In other words, Titus had no desire to see the Temple destroyed. Rome loved its treasures of conquest, and this Temple was one of the greatest prizes ever. The emperor’s son didn’t order the Temple destroyed. He tried desperately to stop it.
    Why didn’t that work?
    Josephus explains: “Titus supposing that the house itself yet be saved, he came in haste and endeavored to persuade the soldiers to quench the fire. Yet were the regards they had for Caesar, and their dread of him who forbade them, not as hard as their passion and their hatred of the Jews, and a certain vehement inclination to fight them. … And thus was the holy house burnt down, without Caesar’s approbation.”

    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2017/08/temple-wh...LhjhkcKVUwj.99
    Thank God, at a time I discovered an Occult Bookstore and said to myself, I want the Devil's power, to help me live a happy life, that God saved me - 1975.

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    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by undertheblood View Post

    Jewish historian Josephus wrote that “the greatest part of the Roman garrison was raised out of Syria; and being thus related to the Syrian part, they were ready to assist it.” He wrote that “Vespasian sent his son Titus … into Syria, where he gathered together the Roman forces, with a considerable number of auxiliaries from the kings in that neighborhood.” Additionally he wrote: “Malchus also, the king of Arabia, sent a thousand horsemen, besides 5,000 footmen.”

    Now let’s turn to Josephus to find out what happened at the storming of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.
    The Jews were holed up within the walled city. It was under siege. The intent was that the Romans would take the city, and especially the Temple, without terrible destruction. They were going to starve out the Jews.
    By the time the Jews resorted to cannibalism inside Jerusalem, thousands tried to exit the city and surrender to the Roman-Arab forces.
    Josephus reports in his own words: “The multitude of the Arabians, with the Syrians, cut up those that came out as supplicants, and searched their bellies (looking for gold they had swallowed). Nor does it seem to me that any misery befell the Jews that was more terrible than this, since in one night’s time about 2,000 of these deserters were thus dissected.”
    Finally, after the Romans and these Middle Eastern provincial forces of Rome broke through the city walls and captured the Temple, it was set on fire.
    Here’s Josephus’ account: “Now a certain person came running to Titus, and told him of this fire … whereupon he rose up in great haste, and, as he was, ran to the holy house, in order to have a stop put to the fire; after him followed all of his commanders, and after them followed the several legions, in great astonishment; so there was a great clamor and tumult raised, as was natural upon the disorderly motion of so great an army. Then did Caesar, both by calling to the soldiers that were fighting, with a loud voice, and by giving a signal to them with his right hand, order them to quench the fire.”
    In other words, Titus had no desire to see the Temple destroyed. Rome loved its treasures of conquest, and this Temple was one of the greatest prizes ever. The emperor’s son didn’t order the Temple destroyed. He tried desperately to stop it.
    Why didn’t that work?
    Josephus explains: “Titus supposing that the house itself yet be saved, he came in haste and endeavored to persuade the soldiers to quench the fire. Yet were the regards they had for Caesar, and their dread of him who forbade them, not as hard as their passion and their hatred of the Jews, and a certain vehement inclination to fight them. … And thus was the holy house burnt down, without Caesar’s approbation.”

    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2017/08/temple-wh...LhjhkcKVUwj.99
    In most military, and military type commands like ship, submarine and/or aircraft commander, the leader carries responsibility. Thus, the general statement that Rome, under command of Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple is correct. But Daniel Chapter 9 seems to agree with Josephus. In verse 26 it is NOT "... and the commander of the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;.... ." It reads, "... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ... ." That is, space is left for a random act of subordinates - typical of the accuracy of scripture.

    However, one must lay the ultimate responsibility for Jerusalem's and the Temple's destruction with God Himself. The Jews had flaunted the commandments, rejected their Messiah despite over 330 fulfilled prophecies in front of their eyes and ears, murdered Him and where in the process of vehemently killing off the disciples of Jesus. According to Matthew 25:40, "... Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me", every blow against a Christian is another blow at Jesus. The Father, while he might tolerate much from the Gentiles, could only tolerate so much from His wayward People Israel since He has a Covenant with them. Any further winking at their odious behavior would call His reputation as a righteous God into question.

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    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    In most military, and military type commands like ship, submarine and/or aircraft commander, the leader carries responsibility. Thus, the general statement that Rome, under command of Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple is correct. But Daniel Chapter 9 seems to agree with Josephus. In verse 26 it is NOT "... and the commander of the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;.... ." It reads, "... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ... ." That is, space is left for a random act of subordinates - typical of the accuracy of scripture.

    However, one must lay the ultimate responsibility for Jerusalem's and the Temple's destruction with God Himself. The Jews had flaunted the commandments, rejected their Messiah despite over 330 fulfilled prophecies in front of their eyes and ears, murdered Him and where in the process of vehemently killing off the disciples of Jesus. According to Matthew 25:40, "... Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me", every blow against a Christian is another blow at Jesus. The Father, while he might tolerate much from the Gentiles, could only tolerate so much from His wayward People Israel since He has a Covenant with them. Any further winking at their odious behavior would call His reputation as a righteous God into question.
    That being true, the fact is that he didn't do the deed, responsibility of his rank aside. It was not the will of Empirical Rome nor him to destroy the second temple.
    Thank God, at a time I discovered an Occult Bookstore and said to myself, I want the Devil's power, to help me live a happy life, that God saved me - 1975.

    Septuigent (English Version)
    www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/

    1611kingjamesbible.com
    About: King James Bible and Versions

    Audio Bible
    (Good Reader)
    Follows KJV text, except archaic word replaced with today's English.
    www.wordproject.org/bibles/audio/01_english/

    "Thru the Bible" ,
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  4. #4

    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    In most military, and military type commands like ship, submarine and/or aircraft commander, the leader carries responsibility. Thus, the general statement that Rome, under command of Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple is correct. But Daniel Chapter 9 seems to agree with Josephus. In verse 26 it is NOT "... and the commander of the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;.... ." It reads, "... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ... ." That is, space is left for a random act of subordinates - typical of the accuracy of scripture.

    However, one must lay the ultimate responsibility for Jerusalem's and the Temple's destruction with God Himself. The Jews had flaunted the commandments, rejected their Messiah despite over 330 fulfilled prophecies in front of their eyes and ears, murdered Him and where in the process of vehemently killing off the disciples of Jesus. According to Matthew 25:40, "... Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me", every blow against a Christian is another blow at Jesus. The Father, while he might tolerate much from the Gentiles, could only tolerate so much from His wayward People Israel since He has a Covenant with them. Any further winking at their odious behavior would call His reputation as a righteous God into question.
    Very well said. And I know you'll probably disagree with me, but I think the Roman Army was also the "Abomination that caused Desolation." They were hated pagan oppressors within Israel, and just like Antiochus before them they brought desolation to the Jewish People.

    But your point is well taken. It is not Titus but the Roman Army that was the destroyer of the temple. And that is what the passage in Daniel indicated. And at the same time Titus still bears the responsibility, because in destroying Jerusalem he for all intents and purposes destroyed temple worship for the Jewish People.

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    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Very well said. And I know you'll probably disagree with me, but I think the Roman Army was also the "Abomination that caused Desolation." They were hated pagan oppressors within Israel, and just like Antiochus before them they brought desolation to the Jewish People.

    But your point is well taken. It is not Titus but the Roman Army that was the destroyer of the temple. And that is what the passage in Daniel indicated. And at the same time Titus still bears the responsibility, because in destroying Jerusalem he for all intents and purposes destroyed temple worship for the Jewish People.
    I'll have to disagree, Brother, the one that makes desolate (defiles temple) is yet future and is The Antichrist and the temple he defiles is yet to be build (aka, the Third Temple).
    Thank God, at a time I discovered an Occult Bookstore and said to myself, I want the Devil's power, to help me live a happy life, that God saved me - 1975.

    Septuigent (English Version)
    www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/

    1611kingjamesbible.com
    About: King James Bible and Versions

    Audio Bible
    (Good Reader)
    Follows KJV text, except archaic word replaced with today's English.
    www.wordproject.org/bibles/audio/01_english/

    "Thru the Bible" ,
    with J. Vernon McGee
    Radio Audio Archive
    Five year reading of the Bible.

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    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by undertheblood View Post
    I'll have to disagree, Brother, the one that makes desolate (defiles temple) is yet future and is
    The Antichrist and the temple he defiles is yet to be build (aka, the Third Temple).
    Doctor Loraine Boettner and others [Dr. Kenneth Gentry & Dr. Warfield] have put the notion of some future
    "antichrist" to rest long ago. "Put to rest" means thoroughly refuted.

    Says Dr. Boettner:

    "We have no need to enter into a detailed refutation of such an elaborate theory. [as put forth
    by Pre-mills]
    It is a fundamental rule of exegesis that every passage must be understood in the light of its context.
    Yet not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation which Premillennialists
    allege refers to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in the epistles of John that
    mention antichrist.


    All is based on inference.

    Let the reader search for himself and see how far-fetched that connection is.

    We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a world ruler who persecutes
    the Jews during an alleged tribulation period and then leads the armies of the Gentiles
    against the Jews in Palestine is pure fiction, without so much as one clear supporting
    verse in all Scripture.
    . . . A careful reading of Paul’s words should convince an
    open-minded Bible student that the Antichrist and the apostasy are long since past. Few
    seem to realize how frail is the foundation on which their doctrine of an Antichrist
    rests."
    End quote.
    http://www.worldwithoutend.info/bbc/...y_boettner.htm

    Yes indeed . . "pure fiction."

  7. #7

    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by undertheblood View Post
    I'll have to disagree, Brother, the one that makes desolate (defiles temple) is yet future and is The Antichrist and the temple he defiles is yet to be build (aka, the Third Temple).
    No problem. We all have to get our opinions out there.

  8. #8

    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG__ View Post
    Doctor Loraine Boettner and others [Dr. Kenneth Gentry & Dr. Warfield] have put the notion of some future
    "antichrist" to rest long ago. "Put to rest" means thoroughly refuted.

    Says Dr. Boettner:

    "We have no need to enter into a detailed refutation of such an elaborate theory. [as put forth
    by Pre-mills]
    It is a fundamental rule of exegesis that every passage must be understood in the light of its context.
    Yet not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation which Premillennialists
    allege refers to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in the epistles of John that
    mention antichrist.


    All is based on inference.

    Let the reader search for himself and see how far-fetched that connection is.

    We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a world ruler who persecutes
    the Jews during an alleged tribulation period and then leads the armies of the Gentiles
    against the Jews in Palestine is pure fiction, without so much as one clear supporting
    verse in all Scripture.
    . . . A careful reading of Paul’s words should convince an
    open-minded Bible student that the Antichrist and the apostasy are long since past. Few
    seem to realize how frail is the foundation on which their doctrine of an Antichrist
    rests."
    End quote.
    http://www.worldwithoutend.info/bbc/...y_boettner.htm

    Yes indeed . . "pure fiction."
    On the contrary, Dan 7 is as explicitly a reference to a future Antichrist as can be. Out of the Roman Empire, the "4th Beast," is to come a future 10 nation confederation, over which a "little horn" will rule. This is the very definition of a future Antichrist.

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    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    On the contrary, Dan 7 is as explicitly a reference to a future Antichrist as can be.
    Out of the Roman Empire, the "4th Beast," is to come a future 10 nation confederation,
    over which a "little horn" will rule. This is the very definition of a future Antichrist.
    All your statements are mere assertions. There is nothing to refute and nothing to deal with.

    You have not produced any compelling evidences [solid reasons] that the verse in Daniel
    is connected to 1 John. You merely asserted that it was. You have to demonstrate your
    assertion with solid irrefutable evidence.

    I need a specific Bible verse that says the verse in Daniel is connected to the verses in
    1 John that mention the antichrist.

    OR

    A piece of logic that is compelling and clearly irrefutable connecting the verse in Daniel
    with the mention of antichrist in 1 John.

    If you can't produce either one --- then your statements are no more than assertions.

    ____

    Edit: Of course, this is the wrong thread to develop a sustained argument regarding
    the fiction that is the notion of a future antichrist. Maybe we can get a thread going
    on that some time.

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    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG__ View Post
    Doctor Loraine Boettner and others [Dr. Kenneth Gentry & Dr. Warfield] have put the notion of some future
    "antichrist" to rest long ago. "Put to rest" means thoroughly refuted.

    Says Dr. Boettner:

    "We have no need to enter into a detailed refutation of such an elaborate theory. [as put forth
    by Pre-mills]
    It is a fundamental rule of exegesis that every passage must be understood in the light of its context.
    Yet not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation which Premillennialists
    allege refers to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in the epistles of John that
    mention antichrist.


    All is based on inference.

    Let the reader search for himself and see how far-fetched that connection is.

    We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a world ruler who persecutes
    the Jews during an alleged tribulation period and then leads the armies of the Gentiles
    against the Jews in Palestine is pure fiction, without so much as one clear supporting
    verse in all Scripture.
    . . . A careful reading of Paul’s words should convince an
    open-minded Bible student that the Antichrist and the apostasy are long since past. Few
    seem to realize how frail is the foundation on which their doctrine of an Antichrist
    rests."
    End quote.
    http://www.worldwithoutend.info/bbc/...y_boettner.htm

    Yes indeed . . "pure fiction."
    You have piped unto me, but I have not danced.
    Thank God, at a time I discovered an Occult Bookstore and said to myself, I want the Devil's power, to help me live a happy life, that God saved me - 1975.

    Septuigent (English Version)
    www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/

    1611kingjamesbible.com
    About: King James Bible and Versions

    Audio Bible
    (Good Reader)
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    Five year reading of the Bible.

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    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    No problem. We all have to get our opinions out there.
    Thanks, Randy, I like your attitude.
    Thank God, at a time I discovered an Occult Bookstore and said to myself, I want the Devil's power, to help me live a happy life, that God saved me - 1975.

    Septuigent (English Version)
    www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/

    1611kingjamesbible.com
    About: King James Bible and Versions

    Audio Bible
    (Good Reader)
    Follows KJV text, except archaic word replaced with today's English.
    www.wordproject.org/bibles/audio/01_english/

    "Thru the Bible" ,
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    Radio Audio Archive
    Five year reading of the Bible.

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    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    I am just glad to put this error to bed, the church has enough error's in it, howbeit this is one of the least damaging ones, it is not doctrinal.
    Thank God, at a time I discovered an Occult Bookstore and said to myself, I want the Devil's power, to help me live a happy life, that God saved me - 1975.

    Septuigent (English Version)
    www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/

    1611kingjamesbible.com
    About: King James Bible and Versions

    Audio Bible
    (Good Reader)
    Follows KJV text, except archaic word replaced with today's English.
    www.wordproject.org/bibles/audio/01_english/

    "Thru the Bible" ,
    with J. Vernon McGee
    Radio Audio Archive
    Five year reading of the Bible.

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    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    Quote Originally Posted by undertheblood View Post
    You have piped unto me, but I have not danced.
    And a magnificent piping it was too

    You did well not to dance (this is the wrong thread).

    Maybe we can dance on this in another thread some time.

    I can defend, imo very well, my propositions in the post you
    quoted.

    Meanwhile . . .

    May the Lord bless you and keep you;

    May the Lord make His face shine upon you,
    And be gracious unto you;

    May the Lord lift up His countenance upon you,
    And give you peace

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    Re: ROMAN GENERAL TITUS, FALSELY ACCUSED FOR THE TEMPLE DESTRUCTION.

    I want to go back and conclude with this, the 10 Legend under Officer Titus weren't deserving of any praise, they ruled over the Province's of Rome with rigorous cruelty and I don't have the numbers of crucifixion's in Judah per any time frame. Suffice it to say, Titus was no angel, I just like truth in any form.

    I am finished here.
    Thank God, at a time I discovered an Occult Bookstore and said to myself, I want the Devil's power, to help me live a happy life, that God saved me - 1975.

    Septuigent (English Version)
    www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/

    1611kingjamesbible.com
    About: King James Bible and Versions

    Audio Bible
    (Good Reader)
    Follows KJV text, except archaic word replaced with today's English.
    www.wordproject.org/bibles/audio/01_english/

    "Thru the Bible" ,
    with J. Vernon McGee
    Radio Audio Archive
    Five year reading of the Bible.

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