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Thread: Is there a need for a future temple?

  1. #1
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    Is there a need for a future temple?

    A debate has encouraged me to post this thread

    Does God need or require a future temple with oblation or sacrifice?

    No He doesn't we are now the temple that God dwells in that's part of the reason God has allowed the temple to be destroyed and has allowed the dome of the rock to be on the location to stop a temple from being built.

    1 Corr 3:16-17
    16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

    1 Corr 6:19
    19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

    Acts 17:24
    "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

    Acts 7:48-53
    48 However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

    49 “‘Heaven is my throne,
    and the earth is my footstool.
    What kind of house will you build for me?
    says the Lord.
    Or where will my resting place be?
    50 Has not my hand made all these things?’[l]

    51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52 Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— 53 you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”

    1 Kings 8:27
    But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!


    The Holy Spirit now dwells in us and Paul clearly tells us in 1 Corr 3:16 that we are now Gods temple. If the Jews accept Jesus they would then understand the scriptures and not need the temple. If a future antichrist desecrates a future temple why would it matter to them or to God? Then they could now worship Jesus twice daily wherever they are each alone by themselves.

    The Jews have all that they need to realize who Jesus is just like the parable of the rich man and Lasurs says. The Jews have rejected Jesus and killed Him now it is up to each Jewish person to realize who the Messiah is just like thousands already have over the last 2000 years.

    Here is a rule that I go by to understand the proper meaning of scripture

    The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture.

    A need for a future temple would contradict the scriptures that I provided so it can't be. So why would God seam to use a future temple method when all we need is the scriptures God has already provided to realize who the Messiah is?

  2. #2
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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    A debate has encouraged me to post this thread

    Does God need or require a future temple with oblation or sacrifice?

    No He doesn't we are now the temple that God dwells in that's part of the reason God has allowed the temple to be destroyed and has allowed the dome of the rock to be on the location to stop a temple from being built.

    1 Corr 3:16-17
    16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

    1 Corr 6:19
    19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

    Acts 17:24
    "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

    Acts 7:48-53
    48 However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

    49 “‘Heaven is my throne,
    and the earth is my footstool.
    What kind of house will you build for me?
    says the Lord.
    Or where will my resting place be?
    50 Has not my hand made all these things?’[l]

    51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52 Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— 53 you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”

    1 Kings 8:27
    But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!


    The Holy Spirit now dwells in us and Paul clearly tells us in 1 Corr 3:16 that we are now Gods temple. If the Jews accept Jesus they would then understand the scriptures and not need the temple. If a future antichrist desecrates a future temple why would it matter to them or to God? Then they could now worship Jesus twice daily wherever they are each alone by themselves.

    The Jews have all that they need to realize who Jesus is just like the parable of the rich man and Lasurs says. The Jews have rejected Jesus and killed Him now it is up to each Jewish person to realize who the Messiah is just like thousands already have over the last 2000 years.

    Here is a rule that I go by to understand the proper meaning of scripture

    The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture.

    A need for a future temple would contradict the scriptures that I provided so it can't be. So why would God seam to use a future temple method when all we need is the scriptures God has already provided to realize who the Messiah is?
    It is true that the Church is the Temple of God. But our Lord Jesus will physically return to earth, touch down on Mount Olives, relieve Jerusalem, physically fight Armageddon and physically return from Bozrah after dealing with Edom covered with blood (Rev.19:13; Isa.63:1). He will set up a physical Throne on earth to judge and rule the nations (Matt.25:31). After the dust of battle and judgement is settled, and our Lord is ensconced in Jerusalem as King of kings ON EARTH, He will need a Palace. This ABODE (call it a Palace or a Temple) will be built to the specifications of the the Temple of Ezekiel's closing Chapters. He will be surrounded by the Levites who will serve Him.

    There is one other point. The Beast will need a Temple for his worship and for the Abomination of Desolation in the "Holy Place" (Matt.24:15; Mk.13:14; 2nd Thess.2:4). So there is need for a Temple in Jerusalem before Christ returns. This will be the third Temple, but there is not evidence that our Lord Jesus will enter it. It has been defiled by the Beast and is most probably destroyed in the great earthquake of Jerusalem during the Great Tribulation (Rev.11:13).

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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It is true that the Church is the Temple of God. But our Lord Jesus will physically return to earth, touch down on Mount Olives, relieve Jerusalem, physically fight Armageddon and physically return from Bozrah after dealing with Edom covered with blood (Rev.19:13; Isa.63:1). He will set up a physical Throne on earth to judge and rule the nations (Matt.25:31). After the dust of battle and judgement is settled, and our Lord is ensconced in Jerusalem as King of kings ON EARTH, He will need a Palace. This ABODE (call it a Palace or a Temple) will be built to the specifications of the the Temple of Ezekiel's closing Chapters. He will be surrounded by the Levites who will serve Him.

    There is one other point. The Beast will need a Temple for his worship and for the Abomination of Desolation in the "Holy Place" (Matt.24:15; Mk.13:14; 2nd Thess.2:4). So there is need for a Temple in Jerusalem before Christ returns. This will be the third Temple, but there is not evidence that our Lord Jesus will enter it. It has been defiled by the Beast and is most probably destroyed in the great earthquake of Jerusalem during the Great Tribulation (Rev.11:13).
    Well we definitely have a difference of opinion in this LOL.

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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    I agree that there will be a third Temple in Jerusalem. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Revelation 11:1 prove it.

    The truth that we Christians are the spiritual Temple of God during this Church age, does not mean there cannot be another physical Temple.
    Several OT prophesies also confirm this new Temple. Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:9, Isaiah 2:1-3, Isaiah 60:7

  5. #5

    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    A debate has encouraged me to post this thread

    Does God need or require a future temple with oblation or sacrifice?

    No He doesn't we are now the temple that God dwells in that's part of the reason God has allowed the temple to be destroyed and has allowed the dome of the rock to be on the location to stop a temple from being built.

    1 Corr 3:16-17
    16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

    1 Corr 6:19
    19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

    Acts 17:24
    "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

    Acts 7:48-53
    48 However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

    49 “‘Heaven is my throne,
    and the earth is my footstool.
    What kind of house will you build for me?
    says the Lord.
    Or where will my resting place be?
    50 Has not my hand made all these things?’[l]

    51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52 Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— 53 you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”

    1 Kings 8:27
    But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!


    The Holy Spirit now dwells in us and Paul clearly tells us in 1 Corr 3:16 that we are now Gods temple. If the Jews accept Jesus they would then understand the scriptures and not need the temple. If a future antichrist desecrates a future temple why would it matter to them or to God? Then they could now worship Jesus twice daily wherever they are each alone by themselves.

    The Jews have all that they need to realize who Jesus is just like the parable of the rich man and Lasurs says. The Jews have rejected Jesus and killed Him now it is up to each Jewish person to realize who the Messiah is just like thousands already have over the last 2000 years.

    Here is a rule that I go by to understand the proper meaning of scripture

    The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture.

    A need for a future temple would contradict the scriptures that I provided so it can't be. So why would God seam to use a future temple method when all we need is the scriptures God has already provided to realize who the Messiah is?
    I agree. The temple in the New Covenant is Jesus and the Church, Jesus' body. There is no need any more for the Law and its temple worship. The old priesthood has passed away. Animal sacrifices have become moot in view of the eternal sacrifice Christ made for all sin.

    Even the OT temple was built and patterned after the heavenly temple. That temple is not built of wood and stone. Rather, it is God's dwelling place in the heavens, the place of His throne. We can see it perhaps in Rev 4-5.

    Antichrist may or may not seat himself in an actual physical temple. What I do believe is that Antichrist will claim to be deity, and will find a place to do this. That is not a restored Jewish temple, nor will a proper Jewish temple ever be rebuilt again, in my opinion.

  6. #6
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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I agree that there will be a third Temple in Jerusalem. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Revelation 11:1 prove it.

    The truth that we Christians are the spiritual Temple of God during this Church age, does not mean there cannot be another physical Temple.
    Several OT prophesies also confirm this new Temple. Zechariah 6:15, Haggai 2:9, Isaiah 2:1-3, Isaiah 60:7
    Revelation talks like the temple was their and I believe that it was at the time and Paul was talking about us as the temple

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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    A debate has encouraged me to post this thread

    Does God need or require a future temple with oblation or sacrifice?

    No He doesn't we are now the temple that God dwells in that's part of the reason God has allowed the temple to be destroyed and has allowed the dome of the rock to be on the location to stop a temple from being built.

    1 Corr 3:16-17
    16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

    1 Corr 6:19
    19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

    Acts 17:24
    "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

    Acts 7:48-53
    48 However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

    49 “‘Heaven is my throne,
    and the earth is my footstool.
    What kind of house will you build for me?
    says the Lord.
    Or where will my resting place be?
    50 Has not my hand made all these things?’[l]

    51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52 Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— 53 you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”

    1 Kings 8:27
    But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!


    The Holy Spirit now dwells in us and Paul clearly tells us in 1 Corr 3:16 that we are now Gods temple. If the Jews accept Jesus they would then understand the scriptures and not need the temple. If a future antichrist desecrates a future temple why would it matter to them or to God? Then they could now worship Jesus twice daily wherever they are each alone by themselves.

    The Jews have all that they need to realize who Jesus is just like the parable of the rich man and Lasurs says. The Jews have rejected Jesus and killed Him now it is up to each Jewish person to realize who the Messiah is just like thousands already have over the last 2000 years.

    Here is a rule that I go by to understand the proper meaning of scripture

    The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture.

    A need for a future temple would contradict the scriptures that I provided so it can't be. So why would God seam to use a future temple method when all we need is the scriptures God has already provided to realize who the Messiah is?
    Actually we can show in scripture how there will actually be TWO more temples. First a temple must be built soon, (NOT FOR CHRISTIANS - NOT ABOUT CHRISTIANS) but rather the JEWS need to build one. It has nothing to do with Christians or the Church. As you mentioned, we have a temple.

    Some have already shown how the temple needs to be here for the 70th week of Daniel to exist and play out, and for the Antichrist to rise up. But are you aware that the Wrath of the Lamb and the Wrath of God includes at least one earthquake that will destroy EVERY wall? Ezek 38:20. This includes this near future Temple.

    Then once Jesus returns on that white horse with His Bride, He will direct the building of ANOTHER temple as He also re-builds Jerusalem (which will be a mess). Ezekiel 40-end of book... This is the 2nd from our point in history...

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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It is true that the Church is the Temple of God. But our Lord Jesus will physically return to earth, touch down on Mount Olives, relieve Jerusalem, physically fight Armageddon and physically return from Bozrah after dealing with Edom covered with blood (Rev.19:13; Isa.63:1). He will set up a physical Throne on earth to judge and rule the nations (Matt.25:31). After the dust of battle and judgement is settled, and our Lord is ensconced in Jerusalem as King of kings ON EARTH, He will need a Palace. This ABODE (call it a Palace or a Temple) will be built to the specifications of the the Temple of Ezekiel's closing Chapters. He will be surrounded by the Levites who will serve Him.

    There is one other point. The Beast will need a Temple for his worship and for the Abomination of Desolation in the "Holy Place" (Matt.24:15; Mk.13:14; 2nd Thess.2:4). So there is need for a Temple in Jerusalem before Christ returns. This will be the third Temple, but there is not evidence that our Lord Jesus will enter it. It has been defiled by the Beast and is most probably destroyed in the great earthquake of Jerusalem during the Great Tribulation (Rev.11:13).
    Very good. I might add that the temple in the KOG will be located not in the city but in the northern part of the land surrounding the city per EZ. And yes the beast will AOD in this temple claiming to be who? If God would not do it then why would the beast??.

    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    If they build a new temple what would Israel be expecting.. Is this what Israel is after?

    Exodus 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.


    Jude
    II Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4
    In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



  10. #10

    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Of course, there is need for the future temple without which there can be no fullness of God and perfection in the NHNE. Because the Lamb and the Lord God Almighty are the temple, there is no need to "build" a temple as neither of them can be "built".

    Other than the Lamb and the Lord God Almighty, any prior or future temple made or built for God can only be temporary, whether a physical building, our physical bodies, or any kind of spiritual body. Every temporary temple will be brought down and made to pass away. Neither Israel nor the Church can be that future temple.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I agree. The temple in the New Covenant is Jesus and the Church, Jesus' body. There is no need any more for the Law and its temple worship. The old priesthood has passed away. Animal sacrifices have become moot in view of the eternal sacrifice Christ made for all sin.

    ....
    You create problems for yourself with this belief. I will show you one so we don't get bogged down with pages of writing.

    The Passover, a crucial part of the Law, involved both the killing of a one-year-old Lamb without blemish. Our Lord Jesus was under Law and would have thus killed and eaten the Passover for thirty three years. Added to this our Lord Himself said in Matthew 5:18; "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Now, the heaven and earth pass away AFTER the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus. The first thousand years of His everlasting Kingdom will be on the old earth, or, the earth as we know it. That is, the Law in its entirety will not only be in effect during the Millennial Kingdom, but it will be fulfilled - NOT BY CHRIST Who has already fulfilled the Law, but by Israel who, until the return of Christ, have NOT fulfilled the Law. In His final act before His death we read in Luke 22:12-16;

    12 "And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
    13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
    14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
    15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
    16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God."


    Whatever a man's perception of the matter is, the grammar is clear. Our Lord Jesus will kill and eat the Passover after His Second Coming when the Kingdom has been set up on earth. I can write another page to explain why, but this should suffice to show that the Law, the Levitical Priesthood, and the Temple, which is an integral part of the Law, MUST BE IN PLACE in Israel during the Millennium. And so the Book of Ezekiel becomes real and literal.

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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Originally Posted by marty fox

    A debate has encouraged me to post this thread

    Does God need or require a future temple with oblation or sacrifice?
    Daniel 8:14 doesn't say DAY it says EREB and BORAQ or Evening and Morning, it never says Days, so it specifically refers to DUSK and DAWN. This is KEY to understanding the 2300 SUPPOSED DAYS. (See Hebrew Massoretic bible below)

    8:14 And he said 559 z8799 unto x413 me, Unto x5704 two thousand 505 and three 7969 hundred 3967 days; 6153 (EREB = DUSK) 1242 (BORAQ = DAWN) then shall the sanctuary 6944 be cleansed. 6663 z8738

    So they wrote DAYS in as a Translation for Ereb and Boraq, which means 2300 Dusk and Dawns, which are APPOINTED TIMES to make offerings unto God. To prove this lets look at Daniel 9 and Daniels prayer unto God. It says he set his face toward God to prayer for Israel, to confess Israels sin etc. etc. We can read that prayer he made unto God on behalf of his peoples, then it says Gabriel came in an TOUCHED HIM at the time of the EVENING OBLATION !! Catch that guys? WATCH THIS, ITS REALLY EXCITING !!!

    Dan 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God;21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

    So Daniel shows us here, if we will only heed him, that there is a Morning and Evening Oblation (A tribute/honoring of God that IS NOT a Sacrifice per se of an Animal). Daniel was praying to the Lord God Almighty, it was done by him in the Morning and the Evening, I think we understand that because he stated this was the Evening Oblation, and in Daniel chapter 8 we see that there was an Evening and a Morning, but Daniel never called them Sacrifices, the English translators ADDED THAT, Watch this below in the Hebrew Massoretic Bible.

    Yea, he magnified 1431 z8689 [himself] even to x5704 the prince 8269 of the host, 6635 and by x4480 him the daily 8548 [sacrifice] was taken away, 7311 z8717 z8675 z8689 and the place 4349 of his sanctuary 4720 was cast down. 7993 z8717

    I am using a Hebrew Translation Massoretic bible, it has the original Hebrew, the Later Hebrew translation and the actual English Words that match with the Hebrew meaning. The KJV version has added words, and my Hebrew bible places them in BRACKETS []. So above we see that [himself] and [sacrifice] are not in the original Hebrew texts.

    So what does the DAILY actually mean? Is it really going to be a Sacrifice in the Temple, or have the English translations gotten it wrong? Well since Daniel was Praying unto God, Worshiping God at the Evening Oblation, why can't the Jews be in the Temple worshiping the TRUE GOD/Jesus in like manner after they have accepted Jesus as their Messiah?

    So the 2300 is really the 1150 and we know the Beasts reign of Jerusalem and over the Saints is for 1260 Days. So it fits right into the time frame. The Beast must conquer Jerusalem and then he defiles the Temple at a later date. Maybe 110 days or so later he takes away the Daily [OBLATIONS] instead of [SACRIFICES].
    Prayers unto God !!

    I think we are getting at the truth of this matter slowly but surely.

  13. #13

    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Daniel 8:14 doesn't say DAY it says EREB and BORAQ or Evening and Morning, it never says Days, so it specifically refers to DUSK and DAWN. This is KEY to understanding the 2300 SUPPOSED DAYS. (See Hebrew Massoretic bible below)

    8:14 And he said 559 z8799 unto x413 me, Unto x5704 two thousand 505 and three 7969 hundred 3967 days; 6153 (EREB = DUSK) 1242 (BORAQ = DAWN) then shall the sanctuary 6944 be cleansed. 6663 z8738

    So they wrote DAYS in as a Translation for Ereb and Boraq, which means 2300 Dusk and Dawns, which are APPOINTED TIMES to make offerings unto God. To prove this lets look at Daniel 9 and Daniels prayer unto God. It says he set his face toward God to prayer for Israel, to confess Israels sin etc. etc. We can read that prayer he made unto God on behalf of his peoples, then it says Gabriel came in an TOUCHED HIM at the time of the EVENING OBLATION !! Catch that guys? WATCH THIS, ITS REALLY EXCITING !!!

    Dan 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God;21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

    So Daniel shows us here, if we will only heed him, that there is a Morning and Evening Oblation (A tribute/honoring of God that IS NOT a Sacrifice per se of an Animal). Daniel was praying to the Lord God Almighty, it was done by him in the Morning and the Evening, I think we understand that because he stated this was the Evening Oblation, and in Daniel chapter 8 we see that there was an Evening and a Morning, but Daniel never called them Sacrifices, the English translators ADDED THAT, Watch this below in the Hebrew Massoretic Bible.

    Yea, he magnified 1431 z8689 [himself] even to x5704 the prince 8269 of the host, 6635 and by x4480 him the daily 8548 [sacrifice] was taken away, 7311 z8717 z8675 z8689 and the place 4349 of his sanctuary 4720 was cast down. 7993 z8717

    I am using a Hebrew Translation Massoretic bible, it has the original Hebrew, the Later Hebrew translation and the actual English Words that match with the Hebrew meaning. The KJV version has added words, and my Hebrew bible places them in BRACKETS []. So above we see that [himself] and [sacrifice] are not in the original Hebrew texts.

    So what does the DAILY actually mean? Is it really going to be a Sacrifice in the Temple, or have the English translations gotten it wrong? Well since Daniel was Praying unto God, Worshiping God at the Evening Oblation, why can't the Jews be in the Temple worshiping the TRUE GOD/Jesus in like manner after they have accepted Jesus as their Messiah?

    So the 2300 is really the 1150 and we know the Beasts reign of Jerusalem and over the Saints is for 1260 Days. So it fits right into the time frame. The Beast must conquer Jerusalem and then he defiles the Temple at a later date. Maybe 110 days or so later he takes away the Daily [OBLATIONS] instead of [SACRIFICES].
    Prayers unto God !!

    I think we are getting at the truth of this matter slowly but surely.
    If you want a great place to look into what you're talking about at more depth how about gathering these points and what they mean in connection to what you've spoken of about the daily.

    What is the requirement that the beast seeks of people?
    What is the magnitude of range that the beast manipulates (i.e. Global)
    What is the restrictions implied to the beast worshippers?
    What is the punishment/s required for those that refuse?

    After reviewing the ideas presented in conjunction with scripture, I have a simple question.

    What is trying to actually currently stop you from worshipping God now versus the times depicted in Revelation?

    I can buy, I can sell, I can worship basically anywhere, anytime, whoever I want (God or whatever else) zero restrictions.
    In Revelation you can't buy or sell unless you fulfill a requirement of the beast, or worship anyone but the beast to the penalty of death...there is no substitute, its comply or die.

    That's not saying everyone will actually die, Revelations makes it clear that there are those who join the beast and those who don't, distinction is observed (i.e. Those tormented by the stings are visually depicted as a seperstion versus those who aren't)

    We also know from other scriptures that there will be saints alive and well at the gathering (resurrection of the saints) at Jesus return, also note the harvest scriptures showing collection indications of those on earth.

    So is a temple required? Not really certain, could flow with an actual temple and could flow with the temple that God calls the inside of man where the Helper resides where God actually desires to sit.

    What really the ultimate goal for Satan? To take you from God at any means....so sitting in the place God should be ( the temple) having one Satan ultimately controls (the beast) require his placement there is quite the ultimate blasphemy to God.
    So much so that not a single person who places him there will receive salvation regardless of what God does to show them their wrongs, all who worship the beast, his image or take his mark are destined for the lake of fire no if's and's or but's....NONE receive salvation.

  14. #14
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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Daniel 8:14 doesn't say DAY it says EREB and BORAQ or Evening and Morning, it never says Days, so it specifically refers to DUSK and DAWN. This is KEY to understanding the 2300 SUPPOSED DAYS. (See Hebrew Massoretic bible below)

    8:14 And he said 559 z8799 unto x413 me, Unto x5704 two thousand 505 and three 7969 hundred 3967 days; 6153 (EREB = DUSK) 1242 (BORAQ = DAWN) then shall the sanctuary 6944 be cleansed. 6663 z8738

    So they wrote DAYS in as a Translation for Ereb and Boraq, which means 2300 Dusk and Dawns, which are APPOINTED TIMES to make offerings unto God. To prove this lets look at Daniel 9 and Daniels prayer unto God. It says he set his face toward God to prayer for Israel, to confess Israels sin etc. etc. We can read that prayer he made unto God on behalf of his peoples, then it says Gabriel came in an TOUCHED HIM at the time of the EVENING OBLATION !! Catch that guys? WATCH THIS, ITS REALLY EXCITING !!!

    Dan 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God;21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

    So Daniel shows us here, if we will only heed him, that there is a Morning and Evening Oblation (A tribute/honoring of God that IS NOT a Sacrifice per se of an Animal). Daniel was praying to the Lord God Almighty, it was done by him in the Morning and the Evening, I think we understand that because he stated this was the Evening Oblation, and in Daniel chapter 8 we see that there was an Evening and a Morning, but Daniel never called them Sacrifices, the English translators ADDED THAT, Watch this below in the Hebrew Massoretic Bible.

    Yea, he magnified 1431 z8689 [himself] even to x5704 the prince 8269 of the host, 6635 and by x4480 him the daily 8548 [sacrifice] was taken away, 7311 z8717 z8675 z8689 and the place 4349 of his sanctuary 4720 was cast down. 7993 z8717

    I am using a Hebrew Translation Massoretic bible, it has the original Hebrew, the Later Hebrew translation and the actual English Words that match with the Hebrew meaning. The KJV version has added words, and my Hebrew bible places them in BRACKETS []. So above we see that [himself] and [sacrifice] are not in the original Hebrew texts.

    So what does the DAILY actually mean? Is it really going to be a Sacrifice in the Temple, or have the English translations gotten it wrong? Well since Daniel was Praying unto God, Worshiping God at the Evening Oblation, why can't the Jews be in the Temple worshiping the TRUE GOD/Jesus in like manner after they have accepted Jesus as their Messiah?

    So the 2300 is really the 1150 and we know the Beasts reign of Jerusalem and over the Saints is for 1260 Days. So it fits right into the time frame. The Beast must conquer Jerusalem and then he defiles the Temple at a later date. Maybe 110 days or so later he takes away the Daily [OBLATIONS] instead of [SACRIFICES].
    Prayers unto God !!

    I think we are getting at the truth of this matter slowly but surely.
    I see this as the DAILY:

    Numbers 28:24 After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

    Your understanding NEEDS the Jews to be Saved, therefor it will not allow for Sacrifice. I humbly ask that you consider that DAILY could include an actual sacrifice, because if the Jews of Today build a temple in the next few years, THEY WILL Sacrifice animals... Just Saying...

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    Re: Is there a need for a future temple?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier_of_Faith View Post
    I see this as the DAILY:

    Numbers 28:24 After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

    Your understanding NEEDS the Jews to be Saved, therefor it will not allow for Sacrifice. I humbly ask that you consider that DAILY could include an actual sacrifice, because if the Jews of Today build a temple in the next few years, THEY WILL Sacrifice animals... Just Saying...
    The Jewish people are saved...Scripture tells us that they accept Jesus a their Messiah before the Day of the Lord (See Malachi 4:5-6, Zechariah 12:10 and 13:1).

    Daniel shows that the Oblation is PRAYER UNTO GOD TWICE DAILY. This is for 1150 days, you are speaking of something for 7 DAYS.....A totally different thing.

    I am not saying that they wont Sacrifice animals before they REPENT...That is IRRELEVANT...what I am saying is Daniel is not saying Sacrifice, he is speaking about the Twice Daly Prayers unto God....Jesus by that time.

    The Anti-Christ opposes Christ so he takes the services in the Temple unto Jesus Christ away from the Israelites who have just turned to Jesus, then when he places an Image of himself in the Temple, they know to FLEE to the Mountains. AMEN.........Remember, Daniel was shown these things by Gabriel, he was spot on with everything, even if he didn't understand it himself.

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